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Taxes how to reform the IRS?

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posted on May, 19 2005 @ 01:11 PM
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I was talking to a friend the other day and as most Americans we were complaining about the IRS and how they are given pretty much a free hand in how they "collect" from us. I have heard many horror stories about Americans committing suicide etc. so they do not have to "deal" with the IRS. Then it was mentioned that one way we, as Americans, try to change the way coorporations etc. handle things that we "stop" buying from them. Example: when gas prices were so high we stopped buying gas from certain gas companies, or, to get Wal Mart to stop buying from countries that use children as labors we stop shopping at Wal Mart. My friend mentioned to me, what would happen if during 2006 Tax time, that all American's who wanted change in the IRS to not file taxes and write letters to our Congressmen, President etc. if that would force the govt. and the IRS to change how they work. Any comments or ideas on this question?




posted on May, 19 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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I like the old way we used to suppy this country with needed monitary needs. We should get rid of our taxes and before we do though institute a tariff on all incoming goods. This will more than pay for all of our monitary needs and supply moneys to our debt reduction. It will of course help keep employment in this country by taxing / tariffs on companies that send work overseas and bring the final product to us to consume. So much income from these tariffs will suppy not only our governement needs , but the needs of we the people. But you know this will not happen until we the people do it. Many Blessings ..

[edit on 5/19/2005 by zman]



posted on May, 19 2005 @ 03:32 PM
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I personally have always felt the best reasonable reform would be to go to either a flat tax or a low consumption tax. Flat tax would be great--no loopholes, you made $X, you owe us Y%. Simple as that. Maybe a couple of options for marriage or businesses, but nothing as complex as what we have now. Consumption tax would be easy, just a penny on the dollar of everything that's purchased. Eliminates trying to track down drug dealers and other "illegimate businesses." Everyone pays based on what they buy; even crack dealers and prostitutes need a loaf of bread every once in a while.



posted on May, 19 2005 @ 03:43 PM
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I've posted about this on ATS before with little response. Tax strikes are the most effective non-violent way to make your point, but it would have to done en masse. Also, corporate taxes are more than enough to buy machines of war, so more than likely, the tax money held back by citizens would simply mean less highway maintenance, national parks, etc. The dollars would still be prioritized the same way by those who spend the American tax dollars.

Most Americans pay their taxes through withholding so they'd have to actually claim exempt for a year (no taxes withheld) and then try to deal with the IRS when they come knocking (or garnishing).

[edit on 19-5-2005 by smallpeeps]



posted on May, 19 2005 @ 03:55 PM
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Flat or consumption.

Irks me to no end that people are given credit for having kids and well the loopholes are everywhere. Sure I use them when I can but a flat or consumption based tax is really the most equitable....



posted on May, 19 2005 @ 04:00 PM
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I guess I have many times thought of boycotting other places but not the IRS. I truly wish that Americans would gather together on this because I agree it would be a great non-violent way to protest. Especially since I do not believe in violence. Could you imagine the IRS trying to put 50percent (or more) of the population in jail at the same time for not paying taxes? You are right about one thing. Their has been little response to this, I guess just American's feeling that no matter what they do nothing will change so they want to talk about things that get them excited and interested. Smallpeeps is correct about having to claim exempt for a year. But could you imagine the system being swamped with IRS claims triying to garnish wages, or them trying to get enough employees to come knocking on your door?



posted on May, 19 2005 @ 04:12 PM
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I think taxes would be a great place for non-violent protest. And as much as I'm for the IRS being thrown out, there is one problem with that. There's a very large number of the population who are involved in and making their living through taxes. Software companies, accountants, the IRS employees themselves. What becomes of them? Then again, the counter argument to that is the same for abolishing telemarketing--they'll be able to do something that's more beneficial to society. Of course, even with a flat tax or a consumption tax, there still needs to be someone to count the beans that come in and someone to make the checks for the stores, so not everyone is left out in the cold.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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I wish us American's would stop being so complacent about things that really bother us. If we would only get together as a group and Non-Violently protest then we could make changes. If our forefathers were alive today they would die from the way we do things now. It is called "standing up for what you believe in". Not rolling over and letting the dog Pss on you!



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 10:35 AM
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You're right amazed, but I don't know if "complacent" is necessarily the right word. That lends itself more to "we're just happy the way things are." I don't really think that's the problem at all, but more that we don't really feel like we can make a difference. I mean, our beloved elections are good example of both the cause and effect of that. Voter turnout is terrible compared to other nations, that's something that almost doesn't even need to be stated. But not only has the voting process been abused in various elections--not even just the presidential one, look for what happened in Washington state's governor race for example--but the presidential elections really have little incentive for the public.

We do not elect the president, we merely show our support one way or the other. While the electoral college generally goes with the popular vote, it by no means is required to, and there have been a handful of times where the popular president lost the election. That's something the founders of the nation intentionally included, because the general public (at that time at least) isn't knowledgeable in the necessary fields to make the "best" decision.

I think a lot of Americans have become more and more disillusioned with how the nation is handled and are seeing (either honestly or just in their own minds) how much power we really don't have. It's really hard to be the one to stand up in the crowd and rally everyone for something like tax reform, or even the war in Iraq. We'd rather show our opinion through a Gallup poll, the local bar, or internet forums like this. Places of anonymity or places where no one really cares, they just want something to argue about.

I think also, to a lesser extent, the more moderate political lines have become more popular, and people don't want to be considered extreme left or extreme right. They hear people talk crap about Rush Limbaugh or Michael Moore, and subconsciously decide that it's better PR to keep your mouth shut and let those guys express your beliefs and take the flak.

But we as a people are not entirely blind and submitting to government control. We just need something to get the fire going, and unfortunately the catalyst required has been getting bigger and bigger as time goes by. If you would've had a survey on September 10th on whether or not we should invade Afghanistan in order to rid the world of terrorists, most people would have either laughed at you, or said "sure, but I think we have more important things to do right now." The minute the planes hit the towers the general concensus was along the lines of "roll out the B-52s, we're going to turn something into a parking lot." The only way tax reform will ever happen is if there's some massive scandal that hits every American in some way or another, even indirectly or empathetically. And it would have to be on a level where it's more than just a headline on CNN.com for a day; it would have to be something of the magnitude of 9/11, something where everyone in the nation has either lost a large amount of money or seen how they could have.

As one popular comedian was wont to say, that's just my opinion; I could be wrong.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 10:54 AM
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I wish us American's would stop being so complacent about things that really bother us. If we would only get together as a group and Non-Violently protest then we could make changes. If our forefathers were alive today they would die from the way we do things now. It is called "standing up for what you believe in". Not rolling over and letting the dog Pss on you!



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by amazed
I wish us American's would stop being so complacent about things that really bother us. If we would only get together as a group and Non-Violently protest then we could make changes. If our forefathers were alive today they would die from the way we do things now. It is called "standing up for what you believe in". Not rolling over and letting the dog Pss on you!


Hmmmm....is there an echo in here?



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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I did not repost the above, I was on another site and have no idea what happened. Sorry for whatever it was.

You are definitely right about that. You seem to be an inteligent person who sees the truth in some issues. I do vote, but with the knowledge that it really doesn't matter one way or another. Also, I think that people are afraid to "complain" or "push" for certain changes. Even I am afraid, if I push too hard, will the IRS come in and audit me and eroniousy find something to slam me with? That, to me, is "the strong arm of the law" keeping me "complacent". We are a "free" country, but in truth those freedoms are being slowly eroded away. A small "almost insignificant" example of that is the new seat belt law. I agree that if you have a child in your car you should be ticketed for not having the child seatbelted, but as an adult that should be my choice. Sigh, I am worried about the situation in our free country.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 03:48 PM
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I agree with the above posters - flat tax or consumption. A problem with a flat tax and the current tax system is, of course, that people fudge their earnings to pay less. The solution for this is, and I believe I've mentioned it before because I have believed in it for a long time - ELIMINATE CASH. Make all monetary transfer electronic. Privacy nuts will complain probably, and I've always been at odds with them, but it gives us many advantages.

First, a HUGE percentage of crime is eliminated. No more robberies of stores, muggings, etc. No more prostitution or drug sales (as far as I know, drug dealers and prostitutes don't accept debit cards.) Chris Rock had a funny comic routine that included commentary on ATM machines with something like "The last time you took out $300 from an ATM at 2:30 in the morning... WHAT were you planning on doing?" And you won't get mugged because the mugger will have no way to get your money.

And with all monetary transfers being electronic, there's no way you can lie about how much money you have or made, thus making a flat tax easily enforceable and simple to compute. A lot of tax preparation firms will go out of business, but they already have strange schedules (I forget the exact percentage, but an overwhelming percent of their work is done only 3 months out of every year.)

Of course, a consumption tax is very easy to compute, but then again with the current cash system it is easily cheated. For example, every time I've ever had body or mechanical work on my car (not cheap, making the sales tax burden high) I've always asked the mechanic/technician if I could pay in cash. In doing so, he doesn't charge tax and thus both of us benefit (I don't pay the sales tax for the work, he doesn't pay the income tax.)



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 09:20 PM
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The IRS and the federal income tax are both unconstitutional, and should be abolished.

I think I mentioned in another thread that the income tax came about via the Sixteeth Amendment, which was "ratified" under questionable circumstances.

I keep thinking they want these unconstitutional taxes so they can support their unconstitutional institutions, such as the federal Department of Education.

Somehow we got along fine before the gummint started the income tax. I don't mind paying taxes so long as they're legit, know what I mean?




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