Time for the next step in the evolution of this online community.

WOHOO
I have a new party its called Kids OF America or KOA. My party's main goal is to get us kids/teens to rule or have a part of ATS.

I don't really like the voting form. Shouldn't their be people "running" for the positions. Like a drop down list of the people that want the positions. I think more people would vote then

As I read it, we are in the "nomination" stage, and there will need to be some processing and consultation with prospective candidates about availability and willingness, before actual "voting" happens.

I don't know about the municipal model, it doesn't ring true for me. But that's cool, if you want a Forum run by 20 people standing around with clipboards watching one worker with a jackkhammer.

Things can be clear if you (we) take the time to read them, and if legitimate questions are answered. Or confusion can reign - like in every good "municipality". Whatever floats your boat.

The run-off primaries of the top-ten nominations in each position will be posted soon.

Stay tuned...

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
The run-off primaries of the top-ten nominations in each position will be posted soon.

Stay tuned...

Thats absolutely awesome dude!

Meet The New Boss, Same As The Old Boss

Representative government warms my heart, but I am finding myself with a lot of mixed feelings about this new layer of ATS government.

I think I understand the idea, which is to dedicate some members to the task of helping to mold ATS into a form more pleasing to the majority of members.

The irony I see to this is that the members of ATS vote on this matter every time we post.

The ATS we have exists as a result of our collective contributions as members.

There seems to be a general degree of dissatisfaction with the pure democracy of members voting with their posts, so here we go with another incarnation, another experiment with a government model for our online community.

I think it's a neat idea, and hope it works out, but nonetheless, I can't help but be, well, skeptical about the whole thing.

The Nature Of The Problem

Will we, the members of ATS, really be happier with the effect the new politics will have on ATS? Only time will tell.

I hope my fellow members can forgive that I wish neither to campaign nor vote in this new process. It's not that I don't support changes, or improvements, or the idea of representative government, or any of that.

Moreover, I have been a very vocal critic and prophet of doom in the past, but with very little to offer except recommendations that moderators enforce more T&C compliance with the help of a disciplinary process that allows them to make judgments more easily.

My primary criticism is that ATS seems to be more concerned with popularity than quality, with being our one-stop shop for everything on the Internet instead of the best conspiracy site.

But I think I understand the sentiment, and am uncomfortable being too strident in telling other people how to run their website. I'm not paying anything for this service, after all, so when we get down to it, anything beyond what I'm paying for ATS is a bonus -- i.e., basically everything.

I am already grateful for the personal profits I reap from the time I spend on ATS.

So when someone proposes ways to improve ATS, I don't wish to come across as being opposed to improvement. I'm all for improvement.

It's just that in the politicking I see going on here, I have an uneasy sense of deja vu.

The Age-Old Promise Of Reform

Will a new student body council really be able to improve member test scores, make the food in the cafeteria more palatable, break the home team's losing streak and finally end the epidemic of vandalism plaguing our fine campus?

Maybe, but I have yet to see such promises fulfilled elsewhere, and consequently have little optimism that things will be much different here.

Thus I am more comfortable observing the process from afar, much as I was a wallflower in high school and never got into that “school spirit” business the jocks were all up about.

Instead, I think the most important thing I can do is commit to promoting the kind of ATS I want by means of my posts to the forums.

In terms of my own contributions to ATS, I still have much to learn, leave a great deal of room for improvement and find myself continually dissatisfied with the quality of my own posts.

The solution to that, which I consider a far greater problem than anything specific to ATS, must come from within me, not from anyone else on ATS.

[edit on 25-5-2005 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by Majic
My primary criticism is that ATS seems to be more concerned with popularity than quality, with being our one-stop shop for everything on the Internet instead of the best conspiracy site.

I think we're trying to find a way to get to the best one-stop shop for everything conspiracy-related. BTS and PTS are off-shoots as a result of members naturally being interested in more than just conspiracy discussion.

Hopefully, a new layer of "concerned citizens" will help the busy staff better recognized the needs of members, and create an appropriate response. Also, we hope this provides a new system to welcome new members and guide them on their discovery of this vast ATS universe. If all the council positions do is help with these two items, the staff will have more time to focus on T&C violation issues.

Instead, I think the most important thing I can do is commit to promoting the kind of ATS I want by means of my posts to the forums.

That's always been the only thing we've asked for. Indeed, even when members volunteer sizable payments to help with keeping the engine running, we point them back to the forums.

But not everyone is disciplined in this regard. Any large population congregating in the same place will experience chaos and disorder, no matter what efforts are made to control it.

The All-Star Sideline Quarterback

SkepticOverlord, as always, I present my commentary from the 50-yard line, stuffing my face with beer, pretzels and greasy hot dogs while folks like you actually play the game.

I can wave my rainbow wig, blow my air horn and shout indignantly that you should punt instead of pass, but at the end of the day, I get to go home while you have to get ready for the next game.

Anything I may post which doesn't reflect this truth is in error.

Give 'em hell, coach.

The Bitter Ironies Of Politics

No sooner do I post a lengthy and passionate diatribe about my skepticism of the new councilor positions than the ballots come out and I discover, with a mixture of horror and humility, that I've been nominated.

I have to wonder if my name was added just for the shock value.

Well, I suppose this thread already presents as good a campaign platform as I could hope for:

- I don't “believe in the system”

- I don't think “politics” will solve ATS's problems

- I'm concerned that councilors will end up being more petty dictators than true representatives

- I think we get out of ATS what we put into it, and that councilors will have little real power to change that for anyone

- Oh, and I said I'm abstaining from the process, and true to my word, have no intention of voting

So I guess this would put me somewhere between Pat Buchanan and Pat Paulsen in the running for ATS DISC Council Person.

The irony is that I appreciate being nominated -- at least, my ego does.

Why You Shouldn't Vote Majic For District 4

So what would I do if I were actually elected? I honestly don't know.

As much as I complain about “the system”, I really don't know that much about it, other than that the staff seems chronically overworked.

So I'll comfort myself in the fact that I'm not looking for a job, and I think most people know that.

What's irritating is that, given the chance, I doubt I could avoid at least giving a job like that a shot.

Still, and ultimately, the best thing for me and all members to do is to contribute the kinds of posts we would like to see more of, and let the threads we hate die from suffocation.

If a councilor can help make that happen, then great. If not, the situation isn't hopeless.

The fact that any of us care at all is a very positive sign.

Originally posted by Majic
The Bitter Ironies Of Politics

No sooner do I post a lengthy and passionate diatribe about my skepticism of the new councilor positions than the ballots come out and I discover, with a mixture of horror and humility, that I've been nominated.

- I'm concerned that councilors will end up being more petty dictators than true representatives

Changing course as the wind blows, one of the first signs of political immersion, next thing you know the tin cup will be out, and every cause is worthy (if it can be properly $upported).

But I've been hasty, congratulations Majic! A most deserved plight has befallen you, and the system you occasionally rail against is certain to have a (o)pinon to hang your mighty cog(nizance).

Petty Dictator? Don’t sell yourself short, you’ll be a magnificent dictator, just throw the monkey a bone now and then.

Primary Monkeys, not just for politics as usual anymore...

Winds Of Chains

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Changing course as the wind blows, one of the first signs of political immersion, next thing you know the tin cup will be out, and every cause is worthy (if it can be properly $upported).

Representation without taxation is tyranny!

Just ask our esteemed congresscritters.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
But I've been hasty, congratulations Majic! A most deserved plight has befallen you, and the system you occasionally rail against is certain to have a (o)pinon to hang your mighty cog(nizance).

Well, if nothing else, being nominated did inspire me to do something different: think.

Looking at SO's description and the vague expectations for the position, I find myself thinking I would have to be a total nut case to want a job like that.

And yet, a chance to really do something... is this what ultimately turned a Skywalker into a Vader?

Talk about your mixed feelings.

Pot And Kettle

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Petty Dictator? Don’t sell yourself short, you’ll be a magnificent dictator, just throw the monkey a bone now and then.

I would think you would prefer fruit or perhaps some tasty grub worms.

I also note that you are one of my worthy opponents -- the only one with a tail (assuming that rumor about another opponent isn't true, of course).

Would it be untoward to wish you a swift victory?

At the very least, if I were voting, I would vote to appoint you the Alpha Monkey for ATS.

So highly do I regard thee!

Fez Monkeys, not just for butlers anymore.

Posted by SkepticOverlordp
I think we're trying to find a way to get to the best one-stop shop for everything conspiracy-related.

Uhh why not a Wiki then, or is that too hard to code. That would be perfect IMHO. Just ran across this link that may make a Wiki much easier to implement.

Here is the template

www.tiddlywiki.com...

Just save as and it should work on your desktop, been fooling around with it for a day or so now, pretty neat stuff.

Originally posted by Majic
The Bitter Ironies Of PoliticsWhat's irritating is that, given the chance, I doubt I could avoid at least giving a job like that a shot.

isn't politics grand? The best way to enter a race is to be convinced that your mind is what the crowd is after. Flattery gets you everywhere they say. Once the ego submits, it becomes rather difficult to give up the limelight.

The Powah Of The Dahk Side

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
isn't politics grand? The best way to enter a race is to be convinced that your mind is what the crowd is after. Flattery gets you everywhere they say. Once the ego submits, it becomes rather difficult to give up the limelight.

So seductive, so desirable, so absolute.

Chancellor Palpatine says the reason they don't want me on the Council is because they're afraid.

They're holding me back, because they're jealous!

Yes, yes, my precious...

Um, yeah. I'm somewhat concerned about that effect.

I really don't want to spend a beautiful summer hunched over my keyboard, getting U2U-spammed, alternately praised and insulted, sucked into ATS politics and generally wasting my time.

But then, that's pretty much what I'll likely be doing even if I don't get elected, so what the hell.

Good..if I read you right. 'Tryit-Fixit-Testit' if that is even part of ATS philosophy then in my thoughts I believe we're headed in the right direction..

Dallas

Originally posted by Majic[I really don't want to spend a beautiful summer hunched over my keyboard, getting U2U-spammed, alternately praised and insulted, sucked into ATS politics and generally wasting my time.

See how easy it is to talk ourself into something?

Mayoral elections next season, gubernatorial the year after. The backers control the power. And that is all I wish to say, other than; may the magic be real.

The Old, Old Tale

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
See how easy it is to talk ourself into something?

Mayoral elections next season, gubernatorial the year after. The backers control the power. And that is all I wish to say, other than; may the magic be real.

I have an uncle who tried to get me into that. And that's just how it starts: city council here, county commission there, state assembly after that, cigars and cognac with the governor, and off we go.

You tell yourself you're in control, that you can quit anytime. But is it true?

Next thing you know, your wife is saying "Haven't you had enough?" and you're snapping back "I'll TELL you when I've had enough!"

You find yourself slipping out at night to vote for best videos, best stripper, best karaoke singer -- it doesn't matter, you just need to stay in the game.

You find yourself sitting in front of the TV on Election Night rooting for your buddies, shouting "GOAL! GOAL!" when one of your cronies hits one out of the park in a speech.

There's no problem you cannot solve, no injustice you cannot correct, no dream you cannot dream, because you have the unlimited power of GOVERNMENT behind you baby. Ohhhhhh yeah!

You're on the “A” list. People want to see you -- urgently, and with briefcases full of persuasion. And the cars, and the trips, and the talk shows, and the yachts.

And of course the girls.

Then the inevitable crash comes. Your little “ichthyophilia problem” makes headlines and your career is over.

Then you go coach Pop Warner and the cycle begins anew.

On the bright side, I really am pretty sure I won't make it past the primaries, so this is more an exercise in self-indulgence and what-iffing.

If nothing else, the process will help me to appreciate just what the poor slob who gets elected is up against.

Originally posted by Majic
On the bright side, I really am pretty sure I won't make it past the primaries, so this is more an exercise in self-indulgence and what-iffing.

If nothing else, the process will help me to appreciate just what the poor slob who gets elected is up against.

Majic I like you style, and enjoy your perspective. You can gain a bit more confidence though, especially when only one candidate can be the winner.

I fail to see any reason for yet another layer of moderation especially one which is clearly political and had no intentions of voting, however, I will review the ballots and if it is not a forced requirement to vote all contests, you will be receiving my sole vote. And I will do that because I am trusting in you to bring back an interesting perspective of the experience relative to your current point of view.