Shelters?

Hase the goverment made nuclear bomb shelters for the public if not why?

[edit on 18-5-2005 by bloodlust11009]

There are plenty of fallout-certified shelters left over from the Cold War days.
Look for old churches, schools, gyms, etc.. they'll have a yellow and black radiation symbol with "FALLOUT SHELTER" or something similar on a sign usually someplace easily seen.

Are there any modern ones? Well no probably not.. not for the public anyway. Full-scale Nuclear War is hardly a topic of interest these days when it comes to public relations.

Well thanks for posting but what happens if some one dose launch a nuke at us and it dose come to all out nuclear war what would we do?

[edit on 18-5-2005 by bloodlust11009]

Independantly research methods of protection, and hope you arent at ground zero.
Theres a bit of info already on the board, but search around the net for documentation. Most of what you'll find is from the 80's, so its geared more towards the biiiiig nukes the Soviets would have flung at us, but its still a good ruleset.

Basically, to be safe in a full-scale nuke fight, don't live within 5miles or so of a primary target, including major city downtowns (will be airburst targets), major runways longer than 7000ft (long enough for bomber use, will be surface detonation targets), any government/military installations, the list goes on.

You can rapidly and easily construct a fallout shelter in your own home, to protect from fallout radiation, which fades in a few weeks to a few months under heavy fallout areas. Theres a few FEMA maps out there that show where the expected fallout would drift, as well as FEMA and BBC documentation on construction of these shelters. The majority of casualties incurred during a nuclear conflict are not actually from the explosions rather from the fallout.

I dont have any links for you because there is an abundance of information on the net, search Google or something for relevant topics and you will find a metric butt-load of info.

The honest truth is that in the event of a nuclear strike the population is not the first priority, eschewing away all goverment personell to secure facilities such as Mt Weather, Site R, Cheyenne Mountain and such is their primary goal. We _could_ trust FEMA to take care of us, but most of us here seem to not trust that entity any farther than we can toss it. The rule of thumb is if its a full on nuclear war and not an isolated strike we are all basically screwed and might as well start looking out for our own, because the big wigs will be hesitant to poke their heads out of the shelters and see what has happened.

Find some land away from the city and build a nestegg home by formworks. Do a bit of hydroponic gardening and get a generator. You'll be fine. A good shotgun and pistol might be in order but other than that just hope for the best.

Originally posted by ROMAD
Find some land away from the city and build a nestegg home by formworks. Do a bit of hydroponic gardening and get a generator. You'll be fine. A good shotgun and pistol might be in order but other than that just hope for the best.

Agree with the self-sufficiency but what happens when the generator runs out of fuel?

Agree with the self-sufficiency but what happens when the generator runs out of fuel?

You refill it with the ethanol you've distilled from the corn you've been growing.
Of course... you'll have to have an alcohol optimized motor for the generator, but converting a gas motor over to moonshine isnt that hard.

Originally posted by alternateheaven
We _could_ trust FEMA to take care of us, but most of us here seem to not trust that entity any farther than we can toss it. The rule of thumb is if its a full on nuclear war and not an isolated strike we are all basically screwed and might as well start looking out for our own, because the big wigs will be hesitant to poke their heads out of the shelters and see what has happened.

I agree. I worry that in the event of a major disaster, FEMA would spend the majority of their efforts on the 'big wigs' and just tell everybody else to evacuate and leave it at that without providing the 'average Joe / Sue' with any further instructions.

I was born in Russia and there used to be some heavy duty shelters there, which include parts of the Moscow subway system (given how deep in the ground it is, that could be a pretty good shelter actually).

Having a shelter by itself is not sufficient. You really have to filter the air and have a supply of uncontaminated water and food. Emergency energy supply is critical to maintain the air filtration and other life support. The shelter also needs to be stocked with first aid kits and medicine, especially the kind used to mitigate the effects of radiation. Iodine is one of them.

All of the "shelters" I see here in the US don't have any gear at all, much less the complete list which is crucial for survival.

On a personal note, God forbid anything happens, drink a lot of red wine, helps against the radiation, too

Ok, listen up people. We are the MAD hostages, k? We aren't supposed to have shelters. So you're on your own. Deployed troops have no premade shelters, either. But they've got this: FIELD EXPEDIENT PROTECTIVE SYSTEMS AGAINST NUCLEAR, BIOLOGICAL, AND CHEMICAL ATTACK. Otherwise known as The Foxhole. Note: this information is provided solely for the use of innocent civilians wishing to protect themselves and their family in case of attack.

If the stuff ever hits the fan, you need a warm coat, poncho, a folding shovel (entrenching tool), canteens, a pocket water filter and purification tabs, jerky, mazapan, tamarindo- and a two-week supply of comic books.

Flash, down, blast, crosswind and upwind, dig and sit.

Forget generators. Think Indian. Learn how to make a sweatlodge, make a fire with only sticks, chip an arrowhead, carve an atl-atl, snare a deer, eat a tree, catch a fish. Keep some corn, squash and beans seed around.

Because if we ever need this stuff, either what is left of civilization is going to rescue you quick- or there won't be any civilization left.

On the lighter side: two privates owe the sargeant some dough. Payday passes. The sarge goes off into the bush with a pistol. He comes back with a dead donkey. He orders the two who owe him money to bury the animal. He goes to the Captain's hut.

"How are the men, Sargeant?" he asks.

"Fine, Sir. I have them out digging a hole."

"Mmm? I think I'll go inspect that operation."

Captain finds the men.

"Are you men digging a foxhole?"

"No sir! We're digging an --- (donkey) hole."

ps- Aelita is correct about one thing. You need a portable filter mask (respirator). But really, forget the generator. If your house is ground zero, well- there's always room in my foxhole, Aelita

[edit on 19-5-2005 by Chakotay]

Originally posted by Chakotay
Forget generators. Think Indian.

No thanks, I'll think European. A basement will work better than any tent, and having a generator just in case is huge plus. The basement also has the advantage that you can stock it in advance. I have a few gallons of bottled water and respirator masks there, candles, waste disposal bags, and a 2 week supply of food. Just in case.

But could a basement hold up to a nuke?

Originally posted by bloodlust11009
But could a basement hold up to a nuke?

Shelter is tyfically a "fallout shelter", which is to say it offers little protection against the blast.

The ones I saw in Moscow were more like bunkers complete with a diesel generator, tank of water, bathroom facilities and all. If located at 500ft underground, I would speculate they could hold out.

Effects of the blast were discussed here on ATS in some detail and they are not pretty, mainly because of the ensuing firestorm. Most of the inhabitants of ordinary shelter will probably suffocate anyway.

Originally posted by titian

Originally posted by ROMAD
Find some land away from the city and build a nestegg home by formworks. Do a bit of hydroponic gardening and get a generator. You'll be fine. A good shotgun and pistol might be in order but other than that just hope for the best.

Agree with the self-sufficiency but what happens when the generator runs out of fuel?

mods forgive me, i know this is unrelated, but i have to say, titian, coolest... avatar... ever! admiral ackbar rocks!



-koji K.

So would you feel safe in one of the bunkers in russia?

Generators? hah, dont bother designing your survival strategy around something that not only requires a specialized fuel but also replacement parts and contsant maintenance. Get with the program of wood for fuel, its worked since the beginning of recorded time just about, so it will suffice in a world that just tried to basically committ suicide. As for electronics, dump them, EMP (see link below for EMP information) quite possibly will ruin them anyway, and things like computers and PDAs are useless weight when the primary concerns are food and shelter.

As for relying on "rescue" following a strike, don't waste the energy hoping for it. It might sound like a doomsday kind of bleak outlook, but if you spend time hoping and praying for a National Guard unit to come save you your likely to be less productive in things such as errecting suitable shelter, securing clean food and water, and generally surviving. Operate under the assumption (only time I would ever advise assuming anything, since in this case being proven wrong is a good thing) that nobody is coming for you, that you are on your own. This keeps your mind out of the clouds and grounded in survival, right where it needs to be. If your really interested in survival san technical gear, check out the NWO Surival thread below, its easily applied to most scenarios save for nuclear war, but the principal mateiral is still applicable.

Relevant Links
Electromagnetic Pulse
NWO Survival Planning

I see a lot of confusion running about, allow me to clarify a few things.

1: dont bother trying to protect yourself from the blast. If you're anywhere near ground zero, you are dead. So try not to be anywhere near a likely target, and hope the enemy has good aim.

2: if you intend on maintaining any source of powered operations, a generator is a must, along with spare parts, oil, and fuel. As I said before, corn works fine for fuel.. you just have to cook up some ethanol.

3: as I and others have already said, what you need to worry about is fallout. This means air, water, food, and body. Use the example of a fallout shelter built in your basement (say.. a whole bunch of crap piled up around the staircase.. whatever is in the middle of the house farthest from the outer walls and as far underground as posslbe). At the first sign of an impending attack, you will want to shut off the water main. Whatever water you have already stored in preparation (tanks, bottles, bathtubs, sinks), along with the water in your pipes, toilets [the tanks NOT the bowls], water heater, will now be your only source of water. If you have a fresh water source nearby, you are lucky. Rivers, and creeks only. Standing water, lakes, will be FULL of fallout. Running water are naturally filtered, but you'll need to filter your water anyway. Air filtration will be a must, but if nothing is available NBC rated gas-masks will do. Painters mask equipped with P100 rated filter will work too.
Potassium iodide tablets are compulsory. They will counteract the effects of any fallout particles you will injest.

4: If you intend on interacting with what little technological society is left, you will need electronics gear. Laptops, radios (which you should have anyway to monitor emergency broadcasts), etc... should all be kept in a sealed metal box with no seams larger than .5mm. It is unlikely a nuclear generated EMP will effect these devices as they are so small, but if you intend on using the technology, you'll want to protect it just in case.

5: Food. Store as much as you can. High carb is best. Nonperishable is good too, but nothing is "nonperishable". Most nonperishables have a shelf life of 24months or less, so keep a good supply of what you regularly eat and keep it rotated. "Use it or lose it." Once the radiation has dropped you can begin eating local vegetation. Really just have to wash off any remaining fallout dusting, as it will still be highly radioactive at close proximity.

6: Get or build a geiger counter. You will need it to know when ambient radiation levels have dropped and it is safe to come out of your fallout shelter. This could be anywhere from a few days to a few months, depending on how much fallout your area has received and your poximity to the detonations. You'll also want an NBC rated protective suit. Army ones will work fine. You can get them on eBay, unopened, for very cheap.

7: Buy this book:
Matthew Stein
When Technology Fails
Clear Light Publishers
2000

It isnt nuclear specific, but is a general how-to on how to survive without our modern day technological infrastructure. From the cover:
Self-Reliance, Sustainability, Present Trends, Possible Futures, Emergency Survival, Supplies/Preparations, Metal Working, Utensils, Engineering / Machines / Materials, Water, Food, Shelter & Buildings, First Aid, Low-Tech Medicine & Healing, Clothing & Textiles, Energy, Heat & Power, Better Living Through Low-Tech Chemistry.


Also don't forget, nuclear is not the only path a global war may follow. We may be engulphed in chemical or biological warfare, and there are many MANY more aspects to take into consideration when dealing with these threats.

[edit on 19-5-2005 by apc]