Is there special treatment for Masons from Masons

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by twitchy
Sabat-Work, do you know how many little blue books make it out into the world? More than you think, I own several.

OK then, smartipants, it should be quite simple for you back up your claims and tell us which masonic ritual these quotes are from?

The same place I got this from...

Originally posted by twitchy
The same place I got this from...

So please show us where in that book it states that masons should LIE for their brothers, even in court and under oath, to conceal their crimes.

What year is that monitor from? I ask only so that we can access a similar one and prove that there is nothing of the sort of things you posted contained therein. I wonder if Senrak has a copy of Florida's monitor. He sent me an Arkansas Monitor, whose funeral procession page is almost EXACT to the Florida one shown above, and nowhere in that monitor is there any kind of nonsense like that which you posted.

By the way, Twitchy, masonic monitors are not considered masonic secrets and are widely available for all people. Now, try to get your hands on an officer's cypher book. Good luck


[edit on 2-6-2005 by sebatwerk]

Here's a novel conept Sabat-Work, proove I'm wrong. Proove I didn't get it from the pile of masonic books I have in my rather extensive library. I presented my evidence, now you disprove it.
Good luck.
I know more than I want to know about Ma Ha Bologna. It's what other people don't know that this angry rhetoric of yours is all about.

Originally posted by twitchy
Sabat-Work, do you know how many little blue books make it out into the world? More than you think, I own several.

Originally posted by Trinityman
OK then, smartipants, it should be quite simple for you back up your claims and tell us which masonic ritual these quotes are from?

The honest answer is, he can’t. They aren’t from a “little blue book” because they are written in cipher, and a Grand Lodge Monitorial does not contain Degree ritual, and are intended for public dissemination. What is easily available and does not qualify as precious tomes in twitchy’s possession is this website:

www.the7thfire.com...

Please review and compare to the text in twitchy’s previous post which I will provide in it’s entirety… Just to make things in life easier.

Originally posted by twitchy
Favortism...

Royal Arch Degree Oath
I will promote a companion Royal Arch Mason’s political preferment in preference to another of equal qualifications.

I will aid and assist a companion Royal Arch Mason, when engaged in any difficulty, and espouse his cause, so far as to extricate him from the same, if in my power, whether he be right or wrong…. A companion Royal Arch Mason’s secrets, given me in charge as such, and I knowing him to be such, shall remain as secure and inviolable, in my breast as in his own, murder and treason not excepted.

3rd Degree Oath
A Master Mason’s secrets given to me in charge as such, and I knowing him to be such, shall remain as secure and inviolable in my breast as in his own…murder and treason excepted.

Whenever you see any of our signs made by a brother Mason, and especially the grand hailing sign of distress, you must always be sure to obey them, even at the risk of your life. If you’re on a jury, and the defendant is a Mason, and makes the grand hailing sign, you must obey it; you must disagree with your brother jurors, if necessary, but you must be sure not to bring the Mason guilty, for that would bring disgrace upon our order. It may be perjury, to be sure, to do this, but then you’re fulfilling your obligation, and you know if you live up to your obligations you’ll be free from sin.

Masonic Handbook
You must conceal all the crimes of your brother Masons, except murder and treason, and these only at your own option, and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason, be always sure to shield him. Prevaricate, don’t tell the whole truth in this case, keep his secrets, forget the most important points. It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you’re keeping your obligations, and remember if you live up to your obligations strictly, you’ll be free from sin.

I believe it is customary to provide the source of quotes, and it’s considered poor form to infer that a source is something other than what it is.

If you have a “little blue book” with this information in it, why not scan the cover, insert page and the relevant pages of text, you know, just for veracity’s sake.

Or is your agenda covered by the "by whatever means necessary" clause?

Originally posted by twitchy
Here's a novel conept Sabat-Work, proove I'm wrong. Proove I didn't get it from the pile of masonic books I have in my rather extensive library. I presented my evidence, now you disprove it.
Good luck.

I already did.

You presented nothing, a Monitorial is not a "secret book," to the contrary, it is designed for public dissemination as I indicated in my previous post. The page you presented is from a Masonic Funeral Ceremonial, and as with all Masonic Ceremonial services, are intended for the public, and therefore contain no Degree Ritual or elements of any of the Masonic Obligations.

Now that you have demonstrated the ability to scan pages and post them at ATS, perhaps you'll scan something that will support your claims?

Waiting Monkeys, for the post that will never come anymore...

Would it bother you guys if I told you that there is a growing and secretive movement here in the US and abroad that stands in opposition to Freemasonry? That I personally know of at least three lodges that have been infiltrated? The Anti-Masonic movement is well underway, and to be honest, it's about damned time, and it's bigegr and more organized than you might think.
I can pull those quotes from a variety of sources mirth, I'll start scanning them right away in fact. The light is for all man kind to see, not a select elite. Welcome to the age of Aquarius, Zion.

Originally posted by twitchy
Would it bother you guys if I told you that there is a growing and secretive movement here in the US and abroad that stands in opposition to Freemasonry? That I personally know of at least three lodges that have been infiltrated? The Anti-Masonic movement is well underway, and to be honest, it's about damned time, and it's bigegr and more organized than you might think.

Oh no! You mean we don't get to have our spaghetti dinners and fund-raisers anymore!?!? Waaaah!!! Please, are you really THAT pathetic!?!? Oooh a growing and secretive anti-masonic movement! Yeah, that sure is original!

Lemme tell you something: anti-masons have never been able to dig up any dirt on Freemasonry, and never will. No Freemason would be bothered by your claims because we all know there is no dirt that can be found to bring Freemasonry down. The only thing your "agents" would find would be a harmless organization concerned with making good men better. They would get bored and leave.

So please, spare us the childish threats.

And by the way, Mirthful has done a great job proving that your claims did not come from any masonic monitor, so I won't bother. But for future reference, the burden of proof rests on the accusing party. Therefore, don't try using those lame troll tactics on me, they won't work.

Now please, either post some conclusive evidence that those quotes came from an authentic masonic source, or ignore this thread like you do everytime you are proven wrong and backed up against a corner. :shk:


[edit on 2-6-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by twitchy
Would it bother you guys *SNIP*

Not at all, just a few disappointed dues paying members if true, after a few years of roast beef dinners and community service they'll probably convert.

But I digress, back to the scanning. I hate to be such a taskmaster, but that was the direction of this thread.

Sebatwerk, Senrak, et al anxiously await your revelation.

Age of Aryans... err… Aquarius. No thanks.

Mirthful Me beat me to it, but here is another page with twitchy's quotes

www.conspiracyarchive.com...

Just to watch you guys bicker like ninnies, I'll take the warning for not quoting my sources as it entertains me greatly to see the reaction from the trolling army of masons who, thread after thread, post such vague denials as you guys do. Hey, maybe I have my own secrets to keep, some mystique that grants me status above the goyim, say perhaps, me being a melungeon grants me the right to keep such secrets from my fellow ATS'ers. Maybe I just want you guys to devote some research into your own organization, besides, you knights of Ma Ha Bologna know damned well where I'm getting my information.

Let's deal with favoritism first, which is what this thread is really about... Then as you guys bicker and deny, I'll move right on into Zionism and Nostra, then I'll explain why freemasonry is illegal in Arabic countries and where Shriners get their their charitable monies from. Perhaps some discussion of why there was such heated Differences between the lodges of England and here in America, the real purpose of Alchemy, and why they lied to you guys about the Acacia plant. Zionism is racism, Freemasonry is Zionism. The blood of millions stains the hands of all who pound the gavels of the world, as witches, heretics and pagans burned for the same practices. It's all about control. The Light is a sideshow to keep you nodding and winking amungst yourselves while you are used to build a temple of human hierarchy that traverses the ages. Freemasonry is a cult, the executive branch of Zion.

First thing is first though, favortism. The Trowel of brotherly love, spreading the goop of secrecy to bind the fraternity together...

Furthermore, do I promise and swear, that I will not give the grand hailing sign of distress, except I am in real distress, or for the benefit of the craft when at work; and should I ever see that sign given, or the word accompanying it, and the person who gave it appearing to be in distress, I will fly to his relief at the risk of my life, should there be a greater probability of saving his life than of losing my own. Furthermore, do I promise and swear that I will not wrong this lodge, nor a brother of this degree, to the value of one cent, knowingly, myself, nor suffer it to be done by others, if in my power to prevent it.... Furthermore do I promise and swear that I will not speak evil of a brother Master Mason, neither behind his back, nor before his face, but will apprise him of all approaching danger if in my power.... Furthermore, do I promise and swear that I will obey all regular signs, summons, or tokens, given, handed, sent, or thrown to me, from the hand of a brother Master Mason, or from the body of a just and lawfully constituted lodge of such, provided it be within the length of my cable-tow. Furthermore, do I promise and swear that a Master Mason's secrets, given to me in charge as such, and I knowing them to be such, shall remain as secure and inviolable in my breast as in his own, when communicated to me, murder and treason excepted; and they left to my own election.... Furthermore, do I promise and swear that I will be aiding and assisting all poor indigent Master Masons, their wives and orphans, wheresoever disposed round the globe, as far as in my power, without injuring myself or family materially.

Furthermore, do I promise and swear that I will aid and assist a companion Royal Arch Mason, when engaged in any difficulty; and espouse his cause, so far as to extricate him from the same, if in my power, whether he be right or wrong. Also, that I will promote a companion Royal Arch Mason's political preferment in preference to another of equal qualifications. Furthermore, do I promise and swear, that a companion Royal Arch Mason's secrets, given me in charge as such, and I knowing them to be such, shall remain as secure and inviolable in my breast as in his own, murder and treason not excepted. Furthermore, do I promise and swear, that I will be aiding and assisting all poor and indigent Royal Arch Masons, their widows and orphans, wherever dispersed around the globe, so far as in my power, without material injury to myself or family.

Pure Patriotism will always animate you to every call of your country to repel an invading foriegn foe, or in subduing the rebellious intentions of those within the limits of our own land who become faithless to the high duty o fa citizen. But should you, while engaged in the service of your country, be made captive, you may find affectionate bretheren where others would find only enemies.

In other words, the loyalty to freemasonry superceedes any loyalty to one's country. Give the grand hailing sign of distress and a magic word and you will be pulled out of the firing squad while your other 'brothers' in arms are shot. How noble. Any examples of how this works? Sure there are...

www.toeflplus.org...
At Andersonville Hopkins became one of the officers in charge of the Hospital. One day a Rebel Sergeant, who called the roll in the Stockade, after studying Hopkins's pin a minute, said:

"I seed a Yank in the Stockade to-day a-wearing a pin egzackly like that ere."

This aroused Hopkins's interest, and he went inside in search of the other "feller." Having his squad and detachment there was little difficulty in finding him. He recognized the pin, spoke to its wearer, gave him the "grand hailing sign" of the "Royal Reubens," and it was duly responded to. The upshot of the matter was that he took Reynolds out with him as clerk, and saved his life, as the latter was going down hill very rapidly. Reynolds, in turn, secured the detail of a comrade of the Sixty-Eighth who was failing fast, and succeeded in saving his life--all of which happy results were directly attributable to that insignificant boyish society, and its equally unimportant badge of membership.

docsouth.unc.edu...
They turned and ran, leaving many dead and wounded on our side of the railroad. Approaching these men, lying on the ground about one hundred yards from us, I noticed one of them on his back, gesticulating with his hands, raising them up, moving them violently backward and forward. I thought he was trying to attract our attention, so that we might not injure him in our advance. When I reached him, I recognized by his shoulder straps that he was a Yankee captain, and one of our captains, who was running on my left, said he was making the masonic sign of distress.

Ministry of Defense
United Kingdon
New 2001 Department Policy on Freemasonry in the Military
The following instruction sets out guidance governing the membership by members of the armed forces of societies such as freemasons: there is no intention or policy to preclude service personnel from membership of any lawful and benevolent organisation. However, involvement in organisations of a secretive nature, such as the freemasons, carries with it the risk of establishing disparate loyalties which may have a destabilising influence on the chain of command, not least by the perception of preferential treatment and undue influence.

"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers, which are cited to justify it."
-President John F. Kennedy

"All secret, oath bound, political parties are dangerous to any nation."
-Ulysses S. Grant

"I saw a code of Masonic legislation adapted to prostrate every principle of equal justice and to corrupt every sentiment of virtuous feeling in the soul of him who bound his allegiance to it.
I saw the practice of common honesty, the kindness of Christian benevolence, even the abstinence of atrocious crimes; limited exclusively by lawless oaths and barbarous penalties, to the social relations between the Brotherhood and the Craft. I saw slander organize into a secret, widespread and affiliated agency....I saw self-invoked imprecations of throats cut from ear to ear, of hearts and vitals torn out and cast off and hung on spires. I saw wine drunk from a human skull with solemn invocation of all the sins of its owner upon the head of him who drank it."
- John Quincy Adams
Upon the first hasty and superficial glance, a feeling might arise of surprise that the frivolity of its unmeaning ceremonial, and ridiculous substitution of its fictions for the sacred history, should not long ago discredited the thing in the minds of good and sensible men everywhere. Yet upon closer and more attentive examination, this first feeling vanishes, and makes way for astonishment at the ingenious contrivance displayed in the construction of the whole machine. A more perfect agent for the devising and execution of conspiracies against the church or state could scarcely have been conceived.
-John Quincy Adams

Jack Straw M.P.
Home Secretary, United Kingdom
1997 Home Affairs Committee
Membership of secret societies such as freemasonry can raise suspicions of a lack of impartiality or objectivity. It is therefore important the public know the facts. I think it is the case that the freemasons said they are not a secret society but a society with secrets. I think it is widely accepted that one secret they should not be keeping is who their members are in the criminal justice system.

Martin Short
Inside the Brotherhood
537-563
London: Harper Collins, 1997
A more modern example of the potential for problems within Masonic lodges is the "P2" incident in Italy. This involved the masonic lodge Propaganda Massonica (recognised by the English Grand Lodge in 1972) and its Master, Licio Gelli. A chance discovery by police involving a financial swindle uncovered a membership of P2 which included 43 MPs (including 3 cabinet ministers), 43 generals, 8 admirals (including all the armed forces chiefs), all of the heads of the security services, and hundreds of public servants and diplomats. A subsequent Parliamentary inquiry established that the lodge was the focus of nothing less than a right wing conspiracy to take over Italy.

"Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."
-Woodrow Wilson

LOL I say the light belings to all mankind, and you call me aryan for that, but yet more disturbingly...
"I took my obligation to White men, not to Negroes. When I have to accept Negroes as brothers or leave Masonry, I shall leave it."
-Albert Pike
Sounds really "On the Level" to me.

Orlando Sentinel
June 29, 1986.
They claim about 300 Million Dollars a year to hospitals and other institutions, which is good but not that much, considering that if every Mason contributes just 5 Dollars per week, they can collect 1.3 Billion Dollars per year... they are a good way to deceive the outsiders, like its secrecy, it is often a cloak to hide its real teachings and goals, and a good way to obtain propaganda... and even the so called "charity" is a way to get money for the Order: In 1985, "Circuses" of the Shriners generated 23 Million Dollars, and only 2% went to medical care of children. In 1984, out of 17 Million Dollars only 1% went to charity, the rest for the Order!

And as far as your codebook goes, it doesn't take a genius to look up Atabash Ciphers.


More to come...

Originally posted by akilles
White history is dominated by class distinction.

Just out of curiosity, have you studied history at the college level? The reason I ask is because your theory there is about 50 years out of date.

Originally posted by twitchy
Zionism is racism, Freemasonry is Zionism. The blood of millions stains the hands of all who pound the gavels of the world, as witches, heretics and pagans burned for the same practices. It's all about control. The Light is a sideshow to keep you nodding and winking amungst yourselves while you are used to build a temple of human hierarchy that traverses the ages. Freemasonry is a cult, the executive branch of Zion.

Ah yes... the Jews control everything, right? Pathetic if you believe that.

Originally posted by sebatwerk
I wonder if Senrak has a copy of Florida's monitor.

I do, indeed, have Florida's "Monitor" A couple of different versions in fact. I have *almost* every State's Monitor that's available (some States do not issue them) I also have the majority of actual rituals from the States that allow printed rituals. (Arizona being one of the elusive ones...they have this rule that you MUST be an Arizona Mason to buy one from the Grand Lodge) ...someday, though!

However, if you've noticed, this is my first post on this thread since it went astray, so I'd better explain myself. You see, I was admonished to stop putting up pictures of fruitcakes...and that's what I think twitchy is...so there's no use bickering with him. He's made up his mind. He's obviously a miserable, hateful, unhappy person...let him spread his hate and lies. I find him and his posts terribly amusing. I'm simply amazed that anyone can be that ignorant.



[edit on 2-6-2005 by senrak]

Oh twitchy - you're such a troll.

And a timewaster.

Originally posted by twitchy
Let's deal with favoritism first ... move right on into Zionism and Nostra, then I'll explain why freemasonry is illegal in Arabic countries and where Shriners get their their charitable monies from. Perhaps some discussion of why there was such heated Differences between the lodges of England and here in America, the real purpose of Alchemy, and why they lied to you guys about the Acacia plant. Zionism is racism, Freemasonry is Zionism.

Groan. Can't wait.

The blood of millions stains the hands of all who pound the gavels of the world, as witches, heretics and pagans burned for the same practices. It's all about control. The Light is a sideshow to keep you nodding and winking amungst yourselves while you are used to build a temple of human hierarchy that traverses the ages. Freemasonry is a cult, the executive branch of Zion.

You are a fantasist of the highest order, my friend. I hope you have something meaningful to your life other than pursuing your futile agenda against a non-existent enemy.

First thing is first though, favortism. The Trowel of brotherly love, spreading the goop of secrecy to bind the fraternity together...

Presumably you mean favoritism, or even favouritism?

"Furthermore, do I promise and swear ... (snip quotation) ... without injuring myself or family materially."

"Furthermore, do I promise and swear ... (snip quotation) without material injury to myself or family."

"Pure Patriotism will always animate you ... (snip quotation) ... where others would find only enemies."

In other words, the loyalty to freemasonry superceedes any loyalty to one's country. Give the grand hailing sign of distress and a magic word and you will be pulled out of the firing squad while your other 'brothers' in arms are shot. How noble. Any examples of how this works? Sure there are...

I have no idea which jurisdiction this is from. All I can tell you is that it isn't mine. But apparently you have no problem with what's in the oath, just what isn't in it. Which is pretty foolish, wouldn't you agree?

You'll be pleased to know that other masonic jurisdictions have a slightly different wording:

"that my breast shall be the sacred repository of his secrets when entrusted to my care - murder, treason, felony, and all other offences contrary to the laws of God and the ordinances of the realm being at all times most especially excepted."

Snipped anecdotal stories

Ministry of Defense
United Kingdon
New 2001 Department Policy on Freemasonry in the Military
The following instruction sets out guidance governing the membership by members of the armed forces of societies such as freemasons: there is no intention or policy to preclude service personnel from membership of any lawful and benevolent organisation. However, involvement in organisations of a secretive nature, such as the freemasons, carries with it the risk of establishing disparate loyalties which may have a destabilising influence on the chain of command, not least by the perception of preferential treatment and undue influence.

I've taken the liberty of highlighting the important section. This tells us more about Political Correctness in the UK public sector than anything else. You'll be pleased to know that this advice was withdrawn subsequently after legal advice and no reference to freemasons can be found in any current MoD policy documents

"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers, which are cited to justify it."
-President John F. Kennedy

Couldn't agree more. I wonder what he was referring to? Couldn't have been freemasonry, which isn't a secret society and possesses no 'pertinant facts' in this context.

"All secret, oath bound, political parties are dangerous to any nation."
-Ulysses S. Grant

Yup - agree here too. Can't be referring to freemasonry though as it isn't a political party. In fact part of it's core values is to be completely apolitical and all its members are banned from political discussion in their capacity as freemasons.

"I saw a code of Masonic legislation ... (snip much nonsense) ... of him who drank it." - John Quincy Adams

I doubt he ever said those things. Read more about JQA here

Upon the first hasty ... (snip) ... have been conceived. -John Quincy Adams

See above

Jack Straw M.P.
Home Secretary, United Kingdom
1997 Home Affairs Committee
Membership of secret societies such as freemasonry can raise suspicions of a lack of impartiality or objectivity. It is therefore important the public know the facts. I think it is the case that the freemasons said they are not a secret society but a society with secrets. I think it is widely accepted that one secret they should not be keeping is who their members are in the criminal justice system.

Silly Jack Straw. All he had to do was go and look in the Yearbook. But he would be much better advising minding his own business and not pander to the PC lobby on the left of his own party. Particularly as his advice had to be withdrawn after legal advice that it was in contravention of the European Convention on Human Rights

Martin Short
Inside the Brotherhood
537-563
London: Harper Collins, 1997
A more modern example of the potential for problems within Masonic lodges is the "P2" incident in Italy... (snip) ... to take over Italy.

Everyone knows there is much irregular masonic activity in Italy, interference in politics etc. This is deplored by regular freemasonry who will have nothing to do with such things.

"Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."
-Woodrow Wilson

Oo-er. Sounds a bit scary. Your point...?

I took my obligation to White men, not to Negroes. When I have to accept Negroes as brothers or leave Masonry, I shall leave it."
-Albert Pike

What's your point? Pike was a racist? So was most of the country back then.

Orlando Sentinel
June 29, 1986.
They claim about 300 Million Dollars a year to hospitals and other institutions, which is good ... (snip)

What a grumpy article!

More to come...

More to be debunked. Oh goody!!

Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by twitchy
Sorry I was working on the DU thread and feeding my pet frog "Plop" which involves some porchlight scavenging and moth manglings. I'm honestly tired of arguing this, there is a hierarchy in every level of society. To say freemaosnry is somehow free of this most basic human behavior is silly. To say you are equal to the status of Grand Poobah, Knight of Ma Ha Bologna just by taking your third degree is laughable. I could hold twenty PhD's and not a one of them would give me tenure or make me head of a department. It's really beyond debate as far as I am concerned, hell the Boy Scouts and a Herd of Walrus have a hierarchy. Sabat-Work has said in two threads now that there is NO HIERARCHY in Freemasonry. It has deteriorated now to "There is no Hierarchy in Freemasonry except the Lodge Administration and the Grand Lodges..." Ad Nauseum. Hell a colony of Piss Ants has a Hierarchy. get real guys, nobody buys that line.

You're still dodging me twitchy... I'm probably the only one who is giving you credit beyond this freakin' hierarchy thing you keep going on about. It's been explained to you (and indeed many others) on this forum a thousand times. Why do you choose to ignore it when it's right in front of your face?

Read my thread, comment on it. I am honestly interested in what you, personally, have to say about what I wrote. Here I'll post the link again, in case you missed it: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I wouldn't make a big deal of it if I didn't think discussion with you wasn't worth the time. I am showing you respect here, despite a lack of it from you in the past, and you are still not returning the courtesy. Why?

[edit on 6/1/05 by The Axeman]

All that rubbish and you couldn't even give me the common courtesy to respond to my post, even though I am (was) the only one on my side of the "fence" to give you any credit above being a common troll. Hmph. Guess I was wrong.

What respect you had from me my friend, you just lost. Not that you care, but then, most trolls don't give a damn about respect, now do they?

[edit on 6/2/05 by The Axeman]

I heard FREE MASSAGE!!!!!!!!
Where do i sign up?
Skull and bones gives free massages??...hmmm, no wonder The bush family are members....it all makes sense now.
-Dani

Originally posted by twitchy
In other words, the loyalty to freemasonry superceedes any loyalty to one's country.

Ignoring the rest of your Drivel, I would like to address this claim. Directly in our obligation (at least in my jurisdiction) we state "this obligation will not interfere with the duty I owe to God, my Country, my neighbor or myself. It appertains to Freemasonry alone". So much for your theory...

Don't you ever get tired of being proven wrong? Like Axeman, I first believed that you had at least a moderate sense of intelligence and logic. But these past couple of days you have proved yourself to be a troll of the worst kind.

What precisely have you proven Sabat-Work? One link to some irrelevant information on Jack Straw? LOL. I can say your wrong all day, but until I post some RELEVANT information I would just be blowing hot air wouldn't I?
I love Freemasons and their denial of anything negative, Sabat Work in particular here on ATS thinks that his very word is acceptable as the final and ultimate authority. Well sorry, "Because I said So." just isn't very convincing.
For example, proove John Quincy Adams never said what I have quoted here. "I doubt he said that" is insufficient. Proove he never said that. Post some links, show me some research, calling me a liar isn't going to make this thread stop, I can promise you that.

Axe, I don't know what you what you want me to say here, the post you linked to is I think a good example of you wanting to understand better what you are getting involved in, but call me a troll and then ask me what I think of it? I think you are steadfast in your beliefs, as am I. If that makes me a troll, than so be it but I owe no fealty to Zion. Enjoy your journey if that is what you want in life, but at least try to get a good understanding of what you're getting into.

Originally posted by twitchy
...but until I post some RELEVANT information I would just be blowing hot air wouldn't I?

We are all just on pins and needles awaiting your "scans." I'm sure it's somewhat time consuming, delving through that "extensive library," for a particular page, but give us a taste, a small morsel of the revelation to come...

If you can of course. I noticed a change of direction in the hot air that has been blowing, a theatrical device? Or necessity borne of inadequate resources?

Speaking of resources, I would hate to see you tie up your ATS upload allotment with this stuff, so I would suggest using www.photobucket.com... its free!

Anything I can do to help out.

Accommodating Monkeys, not just for the post that will never come anymore...

Originally posted by twitchy
What precisely have you proven Sabat-Work? One link to some irrelevant information on Jack Straw? LOL. I can say your wrong all day, but until I post some RELEVANT information I would just be blowing hot air wouldn't I?
I love Freemasons and their denial of anything negative, Sabat Work in particular here on ATS thinks that his very word is acceptable as the final and ultimate authority. Well sorry, "Because I said So." just isn't very convincing.
For example, proove John Quincy Adams never said what I have quoted here. "I doubt he said that" is insufficient. Proove he never said that. Post some links, show me some research, calling me a liar isn't going to make this thread stop, I can promise you that.

Is this how you claw your way out of a cornered position? By changing the subject and criticizing other members? I have stated MANY times that what I say about Freemasonry, I am saying based on my own experience. If I feel I need to post links, then I will. Now, on to the REAL issue:

You are the one that made the claim that John Q. Adams said that, so the burden of proof rests on YOUR shoulders. You cannot say that John Q. Adams said something, then tell people to "now prove that he DIDN'T say that!" There is no such thing as proof of someone not having done something of that sort. If you cannot prove that he said it, then it stands to reason that he never did.

Like I told you before, these troll tactics will not work with me... :shk: