Is there special treatment for Masons from Masons

Sorry I was working on the DU thread and feeding my pet frog "Plop" which involves some porchlight scavenging and moth manglings. I'm honestly tired of arguing this, there is a hierarchy in every level of society. To say freemaosnry is somehow free of this most basic human behavior is silly. To say you are equal to the status of Grand Poobah, Knight of Ma Ha Bologna just by taking your third degree is laughable. I could hold twenty PhD's and not a one of them would give me tenure or make me head of a department. It's really beyond debate as far as I am concerned, hell the Boy Scouts and a Herd of Walrus have a hierarchy. Sabat-Work has said in two threads now that there is NO HIERARCHY in Freemasonry. It has deteriorated now to "There is no Hierarchy in Freemasonry except the Lodge Administration and the Grand Lodges..." Ad Nauseum. Hell a colony of Piss Ants has a Hierarchy. get real guys, nobody buys that line.

Originally posted by twitchy
Sorry I was working on the DU thread and feeding my pet frog "Plop" which involves some porchlight scavenging and moth manglings. I'm honestly tired of arguing this, there is a hierarchy in every level of society. To say freemaosnry is somehow free of this most basic human behavior is silly. To say you are equal to the status of Grand Poobah, Knight of Ma Ha Bologna just by taking your third degree is laughable. I could hold twenty PhD's and not a one of them would give me tenure or make me head of a department. It's really beyond debate as far as I am concerned, hell the Boy Scouts and a Herd of Walrus have a hierarchy. Sabat-Work has said in two threads now that there is NO HIERARCHY in Freemasonry. It has deteriorated now to "There is no Hierarchy in Freemasonry except the Lodge Administration and the Grand Lodges..." Ad Nauseum. Hell a colony of Piss Ants has a Hierarchy. get real guys, nobody buys that line.

You're still dodging me twitchy... I'm probably the only one who is giving you credit beyond this freakin' hierarchy thing you keep going on about. It's been explained to you (and indeed many others) on this forum a thousand times. Why do you choose to ignore it when it's right in front of your face?

Read my thread, comment on it. I am honestly interested in what you, personally, have to say about what I wrote. Here I'll post the link again, in case you missed it: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I wouldn't make a big deal of it if I didn't think discussion with you wasn't worth the time. I am showing you respect here, despite a lack of it from you in the past, and you are still not returning the courtesy. Why?

[edit on 6/1/05 by The Axeman]

I'm sorry, are you a Mason, or just a [edit]?

Oh, well that clears that much up. Now that we have it clear who has an agenda, and who doesn't, White history is dominated by class distinction.

What it comes down to is, even if you disdained the class society in Victorian England, you still wanted to be on top.

And that is where in the 21st century we have to recognize mind control, brain washing, for what it is. And that wanting to be on top really just makes you into an obedient servant.

But of course, no mason is willing to admit his compliance. I regularly ask how often any of them have asked to contribute to the ritual, and they all swear its as good as it could possibly be, although we have to take their word for it.

If the masonic history is anything but sacred, I have yet to be informed of this

[edit on 1-6-2005 by intrepid]

Originally posted by akilles
But of course, no mason is willing to admit his compliance.

But of course, because it doesn't exist.

I regularly ask how often any of them have asked to contribute to the ritual, and they all swear its as good as it could possibly be, although we have to take their word for it.

The ritual isn't there to be changed for the sake of it, why do you think it should be? The purpose of freemasonry is to learn the lessons of the ritual, not change the lessons of the ritual.

You still don't get it, do you?

Originally posted by twitchy
I'm honestly tired of arguing this, there is a hierarchy in every level of society. To say freemaosnry is somehow free of this most basic human behavior is silly. To say you are equal to the status of Grand Poobah, Knight of Ma Ha Bologna just by taking your third degree is laughable. I could hold twenty PhD's and not a one of them would give me tenure or make me head of a department. It's really beyond debate as far as I am concerned, hell the Boy Scouts and a Herd of Walrus have a hierarchy. Sabat-Work has said in two threads now that there is NO HIERARCHY in Freemasonry. It has deteriorated now to "There is no Hierarchy in Freemasonry except the Lodge Administration and the Grand Lodges..." Ad Nauseum. Hell a colony of Piss Ants has a Hierarchy. get real guys, nobody buys that line.

What you don't understand is that Freemasonry is a FRATERNITY! EVERYONE is equal in a fraternity. And yes, a 3rd degree master mason average member is absolutely 100% equal to ANY Grand Master in the Craft. Are we, as American citizens, equal to the President of the United States?

The President has a job to do, but once his job is over he goes back to being nothing more than a citizen. The same works for Lodge officers, even Grand Lodge officers. They are elected to terms, and once they are over they move onto a different office or go back to being part of the general membership of the FRATERNITY.

The answer to all of this is right in front of your face. Accept it, or not, is your choice.

[edit on 1-6-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by akilles
I'm sorry, are you a Mason, or just a [edit]?

Do you always take it upon yourself to insult people when they refute your claims? I have notified the mods of your debauchery above.

[edit on 1-6-2005 by intrepid]

Alright, that's enough of that akilles.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by akilles
I'm sorry, are you a Mason, or just a [edit]?

Do you always take it upon yourself to insult people when they refute your claims? I have notified the mods of your debauchery above.

We all know he wouldn't have the sack to say that to my face, so let the kiddies be kiddies. His stupid remarks such as this only go to show the kind of person Akilles really is.

Heh. Yeah, I have an agenda... Please.

Other than that, Akilles, STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT!!! If you want to start a new thread, be my guest, but you really do need to stop derailing other people's. It's quite irritating.

[edit on 1-6-2005 by intrepid]

The temperature in this thread will chill or warns will be doled out.

Can we say that, a mason who's been in the fraternity for many years, has completed the York and Scottish Rites, was honoured with the 33rd degree, and given other titular honours, is more highly esteemed within the fraternity, and that, perhaps, if he makes a suggestion like 'Lets make the spaghetti dinner into a pancake dinner' that people will listen to him more so than a guy who's only recently completed the 3rd degree?

I mean, surely, as twitchy mentioned, there must be some sort of pecking order, albeit completely informal, within the fraternity. Obviously a Grande Exalted Scottish Knight of the Templar Garter with Hairy Oak Nut Clusters or whatever can't 'pull rank' on a 3rd degree mason, and presumably is one tried to use his 'status' to degrade or insult and run-over a 3rd degree mason it'd be 'bad form', perhaps even a punishable action. But equally obviously, mason's aren't super-human saints. I mean, the very fact that there are high accolades that a mason can acheive means that the people who reached them are in some ways, acheivers, and that that itself is a sort of 'heirarchy'. Of course, thats completely different from a secret nefarious shadow heirarchy

Originally posted by Nygdan
Can we say that, a mason who's been in the fraternity for many years, has completed the York and Scottish Rites, was honoured with the 33rd degree, and given other titular honours, is more highly esteemed within the fraternity, and that, perhaps, if he makes a suggestion like 'Lets make the spaghetti dinner into a pancake dinner' that people will listen to him more so than a guy who's only recently completed the 3rd degree?

I mean, surely, as twitchy mentioned, there must be some sort of pecking order, albeit completely informal, within the fraternity. Obviously a Grande Exalted Scottish Knight of the Templar Garter with Hairy Oak Nut Clusters or whatever can't 'pull rank' on a 3rd degree mason, and presumably is one tried to use his 'status' to degrade or insult and run-over a 3rd degree mason it'd be 'bad form', perhaps even a punishable action. But equally obviously, mason's aren't super-human saints. I mean, the very fact that there are high accolades that a mason can acheive means that the people who reached them are in some ways, acheivers, and that that itself is a sort of 'heirarchy'. Of course, thats completely different from a secret nefarious shadow heirarchy

I think that is probably fair to say, yes. But to call that a hierarchy is stretching the definition a bit. Any organization on the planet is going to treat it's longer standing members with respect. It's akin to respecting your elders; I think it boils down to honor and courtesy more than a "pecking order".

BTW sorry Intrepid, that was unnecessary. Mea culpa.


[edit on 6/1/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by Nygdan
Can we say that, a mason who's been in the fraternity for many years, has completed the York and Scottish Rites, was honoured with the 33rd degree, and given other titular honours, is more highly esteemed within the fraternity, and that, perhaps, if he makes a suggestion like 'Lets make the spaghetti dinner into a pancake dinner' that people will listen to him more so than a guy who's only recently completed the 3rd degree?

Of course certain, longer standing members, past masters, etc. get more respect within a lodge, but this has nothing to do nwith authority, is not laid out in the constitutions and is not an "official" part of the fraternity. This can in no way be construed as a HIREARCHY, only a matter of respect.

And having additional degrees does nothing to help you gain more respect in the fraternity. Many masons in the Blue Lodge don't like and don't respect masons active in the Scottish Rite. Now that ANY mason can get a 32nd degree in one day, the Scottish Rite has lost much respect. Blue Lodge masons feel that real masonry is Craft Masonry.

Being a Past Master is a different story. Once you've been master of a lodge, you always hold a special position of respect in the Craft. But again, this is informal and is in no way any kind of Hirearchy.


[edit on 1-6-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by Nygdan
Can we say that, a mason who's been in the fraternity for many years, has completed the York and Scottish Rites, was honoured with the 33rd degree, and given other titular honours, is more highly esteemed within the fraternity, and that, perhaps, if he makes a suggestion like 'Lets make the spaghetti dinner into a pancake dinner' that people will listen to him more so than a guy who's only recently completed the 3rd degree?

I just wanted to add that while I do not know about the Scottish or York Rites as much, in Blue Lodge, He's just another brother. Sure he has a title and degree ands all that. Whoopee for him. In the case you are describing though, no, I don't think he would have any more pull over anything like that. Everything is voted on, and everyone gets one vote, provided you are a Master Mason.

It may be different in the AASR or York Rite, but I doubt it. I think the appendant bodies are modeled after Blue Lodges. If it ain't broke, don't fix it as they say...

And as far as the kitchen, well, that is the Junior Warden's decision, as he is the Officer charged with seeing to the menu. I would imagine ol' 33° would have to solicit the Junior Warden and lobby for his culinary request through the proper channels.

And pancakes are for breakfast, not dinner.

[edit on 6/1/05 by The Axeman]

Favortism...

Royal Arch Degree Oath
I will promote a companion Royal Arch Mason’s political preferment in preference to another of equal qualifications.

I will aid and assist a companion Royal Arch Mason, when engaged in any difficulty, and espouse his cause, so far as to extricate him from the same, if in my power, whether he be right or wrong…. A companion Royal Arch Mason’s secrets, given me in charge as such, and I knowing him to be such, shall remain as secure and inviolable, in my breast as in his own, murder and treason not excepted.

3rd Degree Oath
A Master Mason’s secrets given to me in charge as such, and I knowing him to be such, shall remain as secure and inviolable in my breast as in his own…murder and treason excepted.

Whenever you see any of our signs made by a brother Mason, and especially the grand hailing sign of distress, you must always be sure to obey them, even at the risk of your life. If you’re on a jury, and the defendant is a Mason, and makes the grand hailing sign, you must obey it; you must disagree with your brother jurors, if necessary, but you must be sure not to bring the Mason guilty, for that would bring disgrace upon our order. It may be perjury, to be sure, to do this, but then you’re fulfilling your obligation, and you know if you live up to your obligations you’ll be free from sin.

Masonic Handbook
You must conceal all the crimes of your brother Masons, except murder and treason, and these only at your own option, and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason, be always sure to shield him. Prevaricate, don’t tell the whole truth in this case, keep his secrets, forget the most important points. It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you’re keeping your obligations, and remember if you live up to your obligations strictly, you’ll be free from sin.

For the record, neither Axeman or Nygdan know #all about what they are talking about.

Well, actually, they know what they mean to say. And that is, they are not Masons. They just do their bidding.

Are they a part of an 'appendant' body, no one knows, because its not important any way.

But what is important is that we have finally realized there is a difference between thinking you are getting the 32nd degree in one day, and actually 'earning' your place in the brotherhood network.

And so, we can see how having respect for experienced Masons translates into "The upwardly mobile kiss the toe before them." We can play the nepotism game all day though, and say that everyone trusts their 'family' over someone they don't know.

The intriguing question is, do you really know your entire 'family', and did you ever ask yourself how do thug knight gangsters become heroes in time? Building cathedrals, and a holier-than-thou attitude transformed them from savage enforces of unfair taxes levied, to bankers, to religious heroes.

So hasn't organized crime tried to make itself as white collar as possible, operating invisibly, in our time as well?

Originally posted by twitchy
Whenever you see any of our signs made by a brother Mason, and especially the grand hailing sign of distress, you must always be sure to obey them, even at the risk of your life. If you’re on a jury, and the defendant is a Mason, and makes the grand hailing sign, you must obey it; you must disagree with your brother jurors, if necessary, but you must be sure not to bring the Mason guilty, for that would bring disgrace upon our order. It may be perjury, to be sure, to do this, but then you’re fulfilling your obligation, and you know if you live up to your obligations you’ll be free from sin.

Masonic Handbook
You must conceal all the crimes of your brother Masons, except murder and treason, and these only at your own option, and should you be summoned as a witness against a brother Mason, be always sure to shield him. Prevaricate, don’t tell the whole truth in this case, keep his secrets, forget the most important points. It may be perjury to do this, it is true, but you’re keeping your obligations, and remember if you live up to your obligations strictly, you’ll be free from sin.

You did not get those quotes from a real masonic source. They are absolutely false and at no time are ANY masons told to do any such things. This would not fly in an organization with so many do-gooders such as Freemasonry, and it is upsetting to see that ANYONE would misrepresent the fraternity like this.

Why must you post lies? Why do you further propagate slander against Freemasonry. Somebody obviously has an agenda and is trying their hardest to make Freemasonry look as bad as possible, and you, Twitchy, are willfully assisting them in this task. You are being played for a fool by anti-masons who prey on your ignorance and use your emotions to get you to believe such filth.

Originally posted by akilles
For the record, neither Axeman or Nygdan know #all about what they are talking about.

And you think that YOU do? HAHAHAHA!!!! THAT'S funny! Axeman and Nygdan know more about Freemasonry than your ignorance will EVER allow you to. They do not need to be masons to know about the fraternity, the truth is out there for everyone.

Sabat-Work, do you know how many little blue books make it out into the world? More than you think, I own several.

Originally posted by twitchy
Sabat-Work, do you know how many little blue books make it out into the world? More than you think, I own several.

I own MORE than several and have access to many more, all from different jurisdictions, and NONE say what you posted above. Plain and simple, what you posted is a LIE. I believe that you know that what you posted is false, and you should be advised that this goes against the Terms of Service of this forum.


[edit on 2-6-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by twitchy
Sabat-Work, do you know how many little blue books make it out into the world? More than you think, I own several.

OK then, smartipants, it should be quite simple for you back up your claims and tell us which masonic ritual these quotes are from?