Are You For Or Against The War In Iraq?

1. Do you support the war in Iraq? (This also includes if you did but no longer do).

2. Why? (Your reasons for being for or against the war)!

I just wanted to know if the majority of ATS is for/against the war!

1: Yes I was and still is for the war in Iraq regardless of what reasons that was first stated by any side. But to break status Quo I think you need an even greater war to be honest.

2: Sincerly I think GB and US did start in the wrong end. Iran then Iraq and last Syria - a Libanon liberation would have been just fine there. I would also want to go in to other countrys and make them a bit more democratic to live in for women, If I only had the manpower and the firepower to convince the fanatics to leave their religion where it should be and the politics where that should be. China, North Korea is nothing to worry about IMO. This world would be rather boring without any alternetive ways for people to seek and find lifestyles that suites their political conviction. I say those who want to live in a communist society can move to China or Cuba. Those who wants to live in a Arab fascist religious state, move to Saudi Arabia. How hard can it be?

Necros

Maybe i could have explained myself better in my last post.

I do not believe that people should die for oil, but i believe that amongst other reasons, Saddam had to be removed from power to get Iraq's oil flowing around the world again!

I did not mean to cause offence here!

Originally posted by Identity_Unknown

Originally posted by Jakomo
Thousands of dead civilians every month, minimal security for Iraqi citizens, and still wide swaths of Iraq with no electricity or gas. But damn, them oil wells are pumpin'.

This may sound harsh but a war for oil is a thing that needed to be done!

People do not deserve to die over the oil but invading Iraq for her oil was a good thing!

The world economy is based on oil and without we would have nothing!

The US were right to oust Saddam and are right in wanting Iraq's oil!

Oil is a drug that pretty much all of us have become addicted to, including myself.

I draw the line way before cheering on the drug dealers while they invade a soveriegn nation, kill thousands, foster hatred and revulsion of America throughout much of the world, and create division and confusion among the American people.

It's really very sad.

Originally posted by Belgarath
Oil is a drug that pretty much all of us have become addicted to, including myself.

Perfectly explained!

Originally posted by Necros
Sincerly I think GB and US did start in the wrong end. Iran then Iraq and last Syria - a Libanon liberation would have been just fine there. I would also want to go in to other countrys and make them a bit more democratic to live in for women, If I only had the manpower and the firepower to convince the fanatics to leave their religion where it should be and the politics where that should be. China, North Korea is nothing to worry about IMO. This world would be rather boring without any alternetive ways for people to seek and find lifestyles that suites their political conviction. I say those who want to live in a communist society can move to China or Cuba. Those who wants to live in a Arab fascist religious state, move to Saudi Arabia. How hard can it be?

I disagree.....

The invasion of Iraq gives us the perfect base to invade Iran, we already have our troops there so its perfect, its also perfect for attacking Syria!

And forgive me if im wrong, but dont Iraqi's hate Iran?
If they do wont they back us if we choose to invade Iran from Iraq?

One of the best videos I've seen that explains my feelings on the War in Iraq. I have have a buddy who joined the military after September 11 and his duty was up a few months ago only to be told they are extending his stay. So the draft has started in a roundabout way!!!!

Here's the video link
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

I'm vehemently against this illegal and immoral war. I live in Bryan, Texas about 10 miles from TAMU and the George Bush Presidential Library. The Southern Pacific Railroad running on a North [Fort Hood Area] to South [Houston, Texas docks] axis, bisects the campus. It is approximately a mile or so east of the Presidential Library. On Friday, September 7, 2001 I was working a mile south of the university area at Wellborn Road and Hollemon drive...within 50 yards of the tracks. All day long there was nothing but a steady stream of railcars loaded with tanks and six-bys [two and a half ton military trucks] loaded to capacity heading toward Houston. This activity had been witnessed by and commented about by residents along the railroad throughout the Brazos Valley for several weeks preceding that day.

Four days later the 9-11 "attacks" occurred. I concur completely with TAMU Professor Morgan Reynolds. The destruction of those towers was planned and contrived and not by 18 Arabs.

You people have no clue, not only is the US Military incapable of making war on Iran and Syria, it is losing the war in Iraq, within 2 years the US will be forced to withdraw from this quagmire due to insuficient man power and the expense of the war is unsustainable; the rebels fighting the Americans will seize the capital, shut down the "Green Zone" forcing the US to evacuate and withdraw from the country under-fire. Just like Lebanon.

Iran and Syria's militaries are untouched and much more capable than sanctioned for 10 years Iraq, they have long rage scud missiles as well as long range artilary which could strike US bases in Iraq and Kuwait.

Originally posted by Identity_Unknown

Originally posted by Necros
Sincerly I think GB and US did start in the wrong end. Iran then Iraq and last Syria - a Libanon liberation would have been just fine there. I would also want to go in to other countrys and make them a bit more democratic to live in for women, If I only had the manpower and the firepower to convince the fanatics to leave their religion where it should be and the politics where that should be. China, North Korea is nothing to worry about IMO. This world would be rather boring without any alternetive ways for people to seek and find lifestyles that suites their political conviction. I say those who want to live in a communist society can move to China or Cuba. Those who wants to live in a Arab fascist religious state, move to Saudi Arabia. How hard can it be?

I disagree.....

The invasion of Iraq gives us the perfect base to invade Iran, we already have our troops there so its perfect, its also perfect for attacking Syria!

And forgive me if im wrong, but dont Iraqi's hate Iran?
If they do wont they back us if we choose to invade Iran from Iraq?

I support the war in Iraq fully, but I think it's a shame the president didn't see fit to fully trust the American People about his intentions. Kind of makes me wonder what other intentions he may be keeping from us. The regime of Saddam Hussein was totally amoral as evidenced by their use of WMD on the Kurds, their total disregard for the cease fire they signed with the U.S. led coalition after the 91 conflict, their clandestine diversion of "oil for food" funds into their own pockets, weapons, etc., their surreptious support of Osama Bin Laden, their repression of the Shiite Muslims, etc., etc.. I don't think we did enough homework concerning the moods and attitudes of the Iraqi people (especially considering we fomented a rebellion after the 91 war and then abandoned them to Saddam's mercy afterwards), and I don't think we did enough advance groundwork to ease the war for the boys & girls we sent over there. But there is really very little to complain about when you consider that we took over a whole country, have occupied it for over a year, and have only lost a bit over a thousand people.

I don't think we should invade Syria (yet), but we sure should pressure them enough to stop meddling in Iraq--same with Iran, but to a lesser degree. Mayby we can arrange a treaty between Israel & Turkey to put further pressure on them.

If Syria attacked Turkey from the rear do you think Greece would help?

Scatz you would have made a good O.J. Juror.

[edit on 23-6-2005 by Astronomer68]

turkey really doesnt need help relating to military issues since it has a powerfull military compared to its neighbours. besides that it has a huge disproportionality in the national revenue spending since %44 of the national income is used for military spendings.

however thats not the point, the thing is turkey has good relations with both sides of the bridge and, it is very highly unlikely any of its neighbours will openly attack it. however it is a known fact that syria was training kurds for to sent into turkey for guerilla operations against turkish military, which are considered acts of terrorism in turkey. unfortunately innocent kurdish populatin is also negatively affected from this conclusions. mainly turkey is against war and , if you ask anyone you see on the street about the iraq war they will tell you its obvious that USA government is after the oil or trying to create a chaotic environment in mid east which it may benefit later (benefit will not be for the USA public as you will be guessing right).

I am against the war in Iraq because, not in order of importance:

1) It was illegal. Nothing in the ceasefire agreement or any other Un resolution allowed for the hostilities to be resumed.

2) It caused only more death and destruction. The civilian death toll is so immense that the US or the Iraqi puppet government doesn't even keep figures. I consider it possible that if such figures would be kept, they might just show that people die at a considerably higher rate a year than under an average year of Saddam's reign.

3) It destabilized the region. Despite all the mentioning of the Kurds for PR reasons, it is often forgotten that ever since 1997, the Kurds were already outside the reach of Saddam and hence were not "freed" from Saddam during the 2003 war. Wih the Kurds now desiring independence and the shiites having a majority and being pro Iran, the region has become more unstable than before.

4) It destabilized oil prices. Iraq's oil production first decreased significantly and isonly now at about the same levels as before the war, but now there is both the threat AND the cost of disruption of this flow by terrorists which adds to the price of oil.

5) Saddam seems to have been a lot better at keeping terrorists and extremists under control than the US. People like Muqtada Al Sadr were kept under tight control under Saddam, but now they are free to preach their message of hatred under the guise of freedom of speech. Extremism has found a breeding ground in places like Fallujah and Iraq has become a terrorist training ground, which has effectively made the US effort in Afghanistan to close down terrorist training camps utterly useless.

6) The Iraq war is a rallying cause for fundamentalists around the globe and is very good propaganda for the cause of muslim extremists, that the US invades other countries for oil and Israel, whether or not this is true.

7) The motivation for the war was completely bogus. The intelligence was selective and unreliable, manipulated to disguise the fact that Iraq was not an imminent threat or even barely a threat at all. The WMD argument was pretty dubious from the start. The humanitarian argument is also completely bogus as the US - nor anyone else for that matter, I'm not naive - won't do anything about regimes like that of Mugabe, for the simple reason that there is no oil or other valuable resources in Zimbabwe.

Originally posted by Identity_Unknown
The invasion of Iraq gives us the perfect base to invade Iran, we already have our troops there so its perfect, its also perfect for attacking Syria!

Nevermind that the US already had bases in Saudi Arabia that were as suitable for attacking Iran, not to mention that announcing to close those bases is meeting a key demand of Bin Laden and hence could be perceived as appeasement.

Originally posted by Astronomer68
If Syria attacked Turkey from the rear do you think Greece would help?

Syria and Turkey may not get along perfectly, but they do get along fine. The whole beef of the US junta with Syria is pretty ridiculous and based upon propaganda by the way. The reason is that Syria doesn't acknowledge Israel and that it doesn't bend over at the whim of US politicians to get buttraped by US oil companies. Syria is much less oppressive as a regime than Saudi Arabia and also much less fundamentalist than Saudi Arabia and Kuwait as the regime is secular. It isn't any worse of a regime considering human rights than Egypt - which gets 2 billion dollar a year in foreign aid by the US - or Jordan - which gets over one hundred million dollar. I'd feel more safe on vacation in Syria than Egypt or Saudi Arabia.

[edit on 23-6-2005 by Simon666]

The comment about Syria, Turkey & Greece was not intended as a serious question, it was an off-color joke.

Think of Syria & Turkey as two people and Greece as grease (i.e. lubricant).

[edit on 23-6-2005 by Astronomer68]

[edit on 23-6-2005 by Astronomer68]

Originally posted by scatz
You people have no clue, not only is the US Military incapable of making war on Iran and Syria, it is losing the war in Iraq,

Errr......NO. I would say we are winning. There may be alot of attacks but we have acheived our goals and are well on the way to ending the conflict.

within 2 years the US will be forced to withdraw from this quagmire due to insuficient man power and the expense of the war is unsustainable; the rebels fighting the Americans will seize the capital, shut down the "Green Zone" forcing the US to evacuate and withdraw from the country under-fire. Just like Lebanon.

Insuficient manpower???

As of March 2005 there were 175,000 coalition troops in Iraq compared to an estimated 40,000 'Hardcore Militants'!

Thats more than four times the amount of coalition troops than militants!
Basic maths will tell you who has the advantage and who will succeed.

Statistics Taken From Here and Here

Mic


Edit To Add Links!

[edit on 23/6/2005 by MickeyDee]

It will tell you who has the advantage, not who will succeed. That would only be the case when there is no replenishing. The Soviet kill ratio in Afghanistan was probably in their favor, perhaps their number as well, yet they still lost. Be prepared for the same fate.

Originally posted by Simon666
It will tell you who has the advantage, not who will succeed. That would only be the case when there is no replenishing. The Soviet kill ratio in Afghanistan was probably in their favor, perhaps their number as well, yet they still lost. Be prepared for the same fate.

Take it your not much of an optimist then?

Wether you support the war in Iraq or not you should be behind our boys 100% and pray that they win.

Our boys are over there doing their job, when they signed up to the armed forces they knew what they would be doing....ITS THEIR JOB!!!!!

The men and women over there are merely tools of the government, and if our governments choose to fight in Iraq then thats what our forces must do!

SUPPORT OUR MEN AND WOMEN WETHER YOU LIKE THE WAR OR NOT, DONT EXPECT THEM TO LOSE!!!!!

Originally posted by MickeyDee
Wether you support the war in Iraq or not you should be behind our boys 100% and pray that they win.

I'm realistic. They can have military dominance forever, like the Soviets, but will keep bleeding and suffering as long as they are there.

Originally posted by MickeyDee
The men and women over there are merely tools of the government, and if our governments choose to fight in Iraq then thats what our forces must do!

Maybe what you should do is fight the government that sent them there on false premises, making false promises.

Originally posted by Simon666
Maybe what you should do is fight the government that sent them there on false premises, making false promises.

They cant do that, it is against everything they stand for.

That's brilliant

Originally posted by Simon666
I am against the war in Iraq because, not in order of importance:

1) It was illegal. Nothing in the ceasefire agreement or any other Un resolution allowed for the hostilities to be resumed.

2) It caused only more death and destruction. The civilian death toll is so immense that the US or the Iraqi puppet government doesn't even keep figures. I consider it possible that if such figures would be kept, they might just show that people die at a considerably higher rate a year than under an average year of Saddam's reign.

3) It destabilized the region. Despite all the mentioning of the Kurds for PR reasons, it is often forgotten that ever since 1997, the Kurds were already outside the reach of Saddam and hence were not "freed" from Saddam during the 2003 war. Wih the Kurds now desiring independence and the shiites having a majority and being pro Iran, the region has become more unstable than before.

4) It destabilized oil prices. Iraq's oil production first decreased significantly and isonly now at about the same levels as before the war, but now there is both the threat AND the cost of disruption of this flow by terrorists which adds to the price of oil.

5) Saddam seems to have been a lot better at keeping terrorists and extremists under control than the US. People like Muqtada Al Sadr were kept under tight control under Saddam, but now they are free to preach their message of hatred under the guise of freedom of speech. Extremism has found a breeding ground in places like Fallujah and Iraq has become a terrorist training ground, which has effectively made the US effort in Afghanistan to close down terrorist training camps utterly useless.

6) The Iraq war is a rallying cause for fundamentalists around the globe and is very good propaganda for the cause of muslim extremists, that the US invades other countries for oil and Israel, whether or not this is true.

7) The motivation for the war was completely bogus. The intelligence was selective and unreliable, manipulated to disguise the fact that Iraq was not an imminent threat or even barely a threat at all. The WMD argument was pretty dubious from the start. The humanitarian argument is also completely bogus as the US - nor anyone else for that matter, I'm not naive - won't do anything about regimes like that of Mugabe, for the simple reason that there is no oil or other valuable resources in Zimbabwe.

Originally posted by Identity_Unknown
The invasion of Iraq gives us the perfect base to invade Iran, we already have our troops there so its perfect, its also perfect for attacking Syria!

Nevermind that the US already had bases in Saudi Arabia that were as suitable for attacking Iran, not to mention that announcing to close those bases is meeting a key demand of Bin Laden and hence could be perceived as appeasement.

Originally posted by Astronomer68
If Syria attacked Turkey from the rear do you think Greece would help?

Syria and Turkey may not get along perfectly, but they do get along fine. The whole beef of the US junta with Syria is pretty ridiculous and based upon propaganda by the way. The reason is that Syria doesn't acknowledge Israel and that it doesn't bend over at the whim of US politicians to get buttraped by US oil companies. Syria is much less oppressive as a regime than Saudi Arabia and also much less fundamentalist than Saudi Arabia and Kuwait as the regime is secular. It isn't any worse of a regime considering human rights than Egypt - which gets 2 billion dollar a year in foreign aid by the US - or Jordan - which gets over one hundred million dollar. I'd feel more safe on vacation in Syria than Egypt or Saudi Arabia.

[edit on 23-6-2005 by Simon666]

[edit on 23-6-2005 by scatz]

Originally posted by Simon666
Maybe what you should do is fight the government that sent them there on false premises, making false promises.

Why would they fight the government?

They are employees of the government and have to do what they say wether they like it or not!

Im a plumber and and i hate it when my boss tells me to crawl around under floors laying pipework, but i dont say no and whack him do i!!!

I'm against this war because I see no reason to go to war with iraq other then to satisfy bush's dad's pride. that and an excuse to renable the draft.

[edit on 6/23/2005 by scorpionxx]