ATS: Russians Benefited The Most From Oil For Food Program Corruption.

Originally posted by SIRR1

Now its Russia selling Iran / North Koera cruise missiles and suppling Hugo Chaves with supersonic anti ship missiles to be launched from Russian Migs based in Cuba to stop a US invasion of Ven and to protect her oil feilds.

You say this like its something they have no right to do. God forbid Venezuela would rely on the help of an ally to protect her own oil fields in the event of a US invasion!

-koji K.

Originally posted by SIRR1
The former Soviet Union now today called Russia is by far the world largest terrorist country.

I must confess I have dislike for the current regime in that country, but you are going way too far.

and suppling Hugo Chaves with supersonic anti ship missiles to be launched from Russian Migs based in Cuba to stop a US invasion of Ven and to protect her oil feilds.

Venezuela is not an enemy of the US, so the point is moot. I just hope we never come to the point where we invade Venezuela. The surreal would become meta-surreal.

Things are starting to get scary, Someone in the former Soviet Block just tried to take out our President, and had they accomplished this God help us all.

Do you really believe George W Bush is that irreplaceable, such that our great country would fall into danger if he departed?

Besides, it didn't happen in Russia anyway.

Sorry for rambling, but I just dont trust Russia at all !

Welcome to the real world -- who trusts who anyway? Israel, our most trasured "ally", is spying on us

[edit on 19-5-2005 by Aelita]

The video of MP Galloway's testimony before the Senate subcommittee linked earlier in this thread shows only a portion of that testimony. Mr. Galloway's voluntary testimony, including his answers to the allegations brought against him, can be found here:
www.informationclearinghouse.info...

Originally posted by dubiousone
Jakomo, I voted a "way above" for your last post on this thread. Don't get worked up over the position taken by Muaddib in any thread.

If i take any position in this matter it is because I can read between the lines, and the fine print, which shows that the US government wast at least in part right of what was happening in Iraq.

I do not get swept away, like quite a few members in here have shown, when some of the news media blames the US government and then believe everything that is printed by some of those news media just because they obviously have a bias against the US government, which quite a few members happen to have.

We are in here trying to find the truth...not to rally on the side of those who are part of our own agenda even though they resort to underreporting the facts behind a story because it fits their agenda.

But i guess i was wrong, there are members who are not looking for the truth, but rather to keep listening just to those stories that change the truth so as to bash and blame the US.

Originally posted by dubiousone
Be assured, even before reading a single line, that he will support the government, defend authority, praise our "leaders", and support anything that emanates from Washington. If he's not on DC's payroll, he ought to be.
[edit on 5/19/2005 by dubiousone]

Actually, i can be assured that some of you will never get away from your own hatred towards this administration, despite any evidence that comes from many sources and clearly states the opposite of what you state.

What i have seen in here in over a year that I have been in these forums, is that quite a few people instead of trying to find the truth, just embrace a story that fits with their own agenda, even if the story behind that agenda hides and changes the truth.

Originally posted by dubiousone
..................
If he's not on DC's payroll, he ought to be.
[edit on 5/19/2005 by dubiousone]

i guess you must be then in the communist payroll, because much of what you embrace is exactly the same agenda that communists embrace....

The only time i was paid by the government was when I was in the military if you must know.....and the last paycheck from the military/government, which wasn't that much, was given to me back in 1998....

But despite this I am sure many of you will continue believing that i must be paid by the government because of what I think.

[edit on 19-5-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Jakomo

Maybe public protests in the US are looked at laughably by the American government, but it's a FACT that Canada bowed to public pressure to stay out of the war. MILLIONS of people worldwide took to the streets for the first time in history to protest a war BEFORE it started, and it effected change in some government's policies.

Was France going to join the Coalition if there weren't protests? Doubtful. But people actively taking to the streets in protest gave far more leverage to those in other country's governments who wanted to stay out of it.

Germany's Gerhard Schroeder CAMPAIGNED on the fact that he would keep them out of Iraq. Because he knew he had popular public support.

Turkey bowed to pressure from within and didn't allow any US fighters to launch sorties from their territory.

Don't assume that just because public pressure is useless in the US that it is useless in other democratic countries.

I think you need a little refresher in American politics and culture, since your perception is wanting a little. Very well.

I certainly hope you reread your above post and saw the error. In case you forgot, the American public was pretty much in support of the war, back when Bush's fairy tales of WMD in Saddams hands were taken seriously. 57% of the public supported the war, 32% opposed it. Seems to be our govornment actually does pay attention to public pressure. The majority of Americans approved, even if the reasons back then were all based on CIA spun BS. And in comparison, a pretty small number of people demonstrated, in relation to the population. The demonstrations here got ignored for one simple reason: they were a small minority of opposition and thus, not in enough number to create any valid pressure. I know first hand. I demonstrated with a ragtag group of individuals at the Tacoma mall, during Christmas shopping season, where we felt we would be seen and heard by many. But the hoardes and hoardes of shoppers paid us little to no mind, and vastly outnumbered us. Public pressure counts for FAR more in the US than it does in your "democratic" Eurostates.

And on that note, lets get back to Germany and France. In both countries, when the US was going into Afghanistan, there were demonstrations against the action. Public opinion was against getting involved in the Afghan invasion. Yet both countries still sent support and troops. Why? Because there wasn't a corrupt UN sponsored gravy train that would be disrupted. And there certainly was much more to gain. So much for "public pressure".

During and after the first Gulf War, I remember the scandal with a certain German chemical giant (AG Chemie, I think, but could be wrong) was caught red handed selling chemical substances to Saddam. It was common knowldge even years later, when I was in Saudi in 95, we knew there were a number of business leaders and politicans in western Europe and the US who were doing backdoor deals with Saddam. It wasn't like I was shocked when the Oil for Food fiasco surfaced. I knew damn well that was why Germany, France, and Russia were so violently opposed to the war. They knew a sucessful invasion of Iraq would mean redirecting the blood money they were collecting from Hussein would cease to spill into their greasy palms, and instead the oil money would start flowing into the greasy coffers of Haliburton and other Enron wannabes.

Having lived in Germany, and spent time in Europe, one thing I learned that public opinion does not amount to squat. Their govoernment has the same sickening, condescening " we know whats best, so youre gonna do it and like it for the greater good" attitude I find prevailent in European government in general. Public pressure my ass! It is simply good fortune for Chirac and Schroeder that their publics happened to be against the war in Iraq. Makes it easier to object when you have the fascade of public opinion on your side, even if for different reasons.

I did not mention Canada above, as as far as I can tell, the Canadian government had nothing signifigant to do with Oil for Food. However, your people held demonstrations and were opposed to Afghanistan, but you still went.

Had their been public opinion in the US against the war in Iraq, it would't have happened, at least not this way. Vietnam taught us that engaging in any war without public support is political suicide, so Bush would have had to spin another yarn to get his war, had we objected. But we did not. At least not in large enough numbers.