Shall we discuss the "Taking Back of Above Top Secret"?

*Scouts off ahead, to scan the area of operation, in order to prepare for the onslaught.*

Don't stray near, danger close within 50 meters.

[edit on 17-5-2005 by ADVISOR]

Here is a way to get back the collaborative atmosphere that made ATS great, and drew me in. Start a WIKI News portal. Have no "Story Authors" as each and every article is a collaboration between mutiple people, one person starts it off with a Seed Article, then if it is a popular item it will get expanded upon until it is a fully featured article/discussion.

en.wikinews.org...

Those of us who could care less about "points" and "recognition" would embrase a system like this.

[edit on 17-5-2005 by sardion2000]

Is this about that silly black band across the logo again?
If you don't like to argue, start "Hi... You're Wonderful" thread and off you go to dance and make merriment with other wonderful posters. There's an old saying about standing the heat and being in the kitchen that comes to mind. If your looking for utopia, www.com isn't it.

ATS is not the same, its different and she's changed for the worse i feel. Period.

Didnt the taking back ATS group get banned or something? thats what i think i remember reading about it, ive read the posts about it....it seems really interesting, maybe we need another "take back ATS" group?

Wonderful contributions. We have some who are interested.


DeltaNine,

I fear that "weirdos" may represent part of the problem we face.


Valhall

The saturation is intense, is it not? A significant portion of it is divisive bickering that results in deflection of thought from the real issue(s). The division has found it's way here, what was supposed to be our refuge from the influence of those with the strings.

As for those taking this place too seriously, perhaps this is merely a step in the evolution of this organism. As frontier towns evolved into cities and centers of culture, surely there were community members who were compelled to care deeply for how the changes took place. I believe the issues here are more culturally related, and in need of "change management" for lack of a better term.


Ycon,

The mother of collaboration is restraint. Members must find restraint. And with restraint comes civility.


TheRiverGoddess

Our only hope for understanding and counteracting the deflection and confusion caused by the "media super powers" is exactly what we are discussing there and now, collaborative reflection. This global network is the most powerful tool ever put into the hands of man for understanding and communication. Some choose to tear down their fellows, we should choose a better path.


wecomeinpeace

Goodness, I certainly hope that my musings are not mistaken for a critique of operational policies and management. Far from it. It is readily apparent that decisive action from the managing parties is precisely what holds this strange brew together.

I have tremendously high hopes for this new voting system on ATSNN (even though my submission was rejected by you fine members). The prospect of a community of truth seekers working collaboratively on analysis of the media-super-power feed is exhilarating. However, I'm concerned the same issue we discuss within this thread has caused the news site to fall short of its potential.


sardion2000

A wonderful and brilliantly inspired suggestion. How would we form a proposal to present to the management for such an effort. You would encounter my hearty cooperation.


twitchy

It's an easy solution to fall into bitter anger isn't it? Indeed, one can even say it's often more entertaining to play the role of the sarcastic curmudgeon. Like dominoes, they would fall.


infinite

You're here, and you carry a title of "Expert". Perhaps within your lament there is enough energy to care and make change.

I would not like to see this idea of mine cause the formation of a separatist group. Oh my, that would be terrible. Nothing could be worse for our cyber home than a group of people who claim any degree of superiority. Instead, we need a theme. Perhaps, taking as inspiration from the management, a "Member Mission" could be authored.

infinite

You're here, and you carry a title of "Expert". Perhaps within your lament there is enough energy to care and make change.

I would not like to see this idea of mine cause the formation of a separatist group. Oh my, that would be terrible. Nothing could be worse for our cyber home than a group of people who claim any degree of superiority. Instead, we need a theme. Perhaps, taking as inspiration from the management, a "Member Mission" could be authored.

I like your idea, cause really we need to keep the political side out of ATS because its slowly killing ATS, all this right vs left, republican vs democract all needs to go really. We need to sort it out

Winston!

So wonderful to see you again...welcome back.

As Slim Pickins would say, "You use your tongue prettier than a $20 whore" (My not so eloquent way of saying you are an eloquent speaker)

Because of that though, I believe your primary message is getting overlooked by many...

And with this continued progression, I'd like bring back collaboration

Dusting off things like Research Projects, Debates, etc. is a great idea imho... Such collaboration has occurred though, both on threads, and especially with the incarnation of ATSNN, if you haven't had a chance to fully look around yet.

In case your wondering, partisanship, mostly over the last "election" has lead to a break in some of this collaboration. In fact, it is currently the reason for the black band that is on the ATS banner... 2008 is likely to have the biggest Libertarian turnout ever,

Anyhow, welcome back. I always enjoyed your posts. To any members who can't recall, and think this some kind of "stunt", I'd recommend viewing Mr. Smith's posting history..... Looking forward to future posts Winston.

First off good to meet you Winston Smith and I like what you are saying and attempting to do. I fully agree the bickering and the media hype machine does nothing to engender topical discussions and only detract for the issues.
We are all guilty of it here in one way shape or form. Members as well as Mods.

sardion2000,
I liked your idea immensely and would fully back such an initiative.

You have voted sardion2000 for the Way Above Top Secret award.

Originally posted by infinite
....we need to keep the political side out of ATS because its slowly killing ATS, all this right vs left, republican vs democract all needs to go really.

How can we rid ourselves of the politics? This is a conspiracy site...to rid our selves of politics would remove much of why ATS exists.

I can't say it any better than Mr. Smith:

The mother of collaboration is restraint. Members must find restraint. And with restraint comes civility.

@ Mr. Smith
Welcome back to ATS, sir. I wasn't around when you first appeared. You are a breath of fresh air. Your posts are a joy to read. It makes me remember how wonderful the written word can be.


//ed spelling//

[edit on 17-5-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

How can we rid ourselves of the politics? This is a conspiracy site...to rid our selves of politics would remove much of why ATS exists.

There is a place for that and its called "P@ATS",
ATS is about conspiracies not right Vs left

Yes, good to see you back again, Winston Smith.
I remember joining ATS and reading your posts; very articulate and intelligent.

Since my joining ATS, I have seen two distinct dividing "seeding" factors within the ATS community: Politics and the War on Terrorism [specifically, Iraq and US policies].

The division is set and will not deminish, but only grow.
Tolerance and civility of discussion is here but has and is slowly eroding into non-existence.

Can this change? Sure.
It will not take another sad case and result of "Take Back ATS".
It will come from each of us.
Each of us must change our way of responding to topics and to members.Creating topics that are inciteful or meant to demean another group, nation, religion, or person must change to what ATS was actually intended for.
Hate, intolerance, and dislike must be suppressed.

Many have given great responses as to how, but implementation of change must come from the source first, and that source is each of us, representing and making up ATS and the ATS community.





seekerof

Originally posted by Gazrok
To any members who can't recall, and think this some kind of "stunt", I'd recommend viewing Mr. Smith's posting history.....

Winston, my apologies for the inference that you were a 'ventriloquist's doll', so to speak. Considering ATS's recent "Dilemma", I'm sure you can forgive my hasty assumption.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
Winston, my apologies for the inference that you were a 'ventriloquist's doll', so to speak. Considering ATS's recent "Dilemma", I'm sure you can forgive my hasty assumption.

Nothing recent about the dilemma of which you speak, the messenger and the news he bears are the same old story. It's merely the current outcry that brings ill will upon the General. Is he who casts light guilty of what is seen?

Off with his head?

Carry on.

GOOD to see you have decided to make your voice heard. The first thing that came to mind when I saw your subject was "Gadzooks someone stole Winny's account and wants to start a nightmare."

I beleive my statement above shows there is a cancer in my thinking. The recent and not so recent drama bombs that were utterly worthless and consuming of resources have tainted my view and I didn't even know it until I read this.

This is a beginning, recognition of what causes us to react the way we do. I am the biggest "these are only pixels, what the hell is everyone getting so damned worked up about?" proponent in the management team here at ATS...

It seems to me I harbor an outdated beleif and am willing to look at things differently.

It occurs to me that ATS, like that frontier town you described, is growing into a genuine city. For that transition to happen there will need to be people who "tend the gardens" with passion so that the community's perspective is understood.

Those people should be listened to and taken seriously.

In the past I have always thought it odd that someone could get genuinely angry over something on a screen comprised of electrical impulses, I am changing that view today.

This is the first step in re-igniting collaberation, civility, and overall value to the community, self examination and the humility to admit a change is needed.

I for one, am willing to do the above for the betterment of the community because it turns out I REALLY do care about this place and the people who ARE the community.

Very interesting and thought provoking as usual Winston.

m...

I for one, am willing to do the above for the betterment of the community because it turns out I REALLY do care about this place and the people who ARE the community.

I for one, too am willing to help "keep the peace" here at ATS. Its true, this once small town is becoming a major city, more and more people are coming to this site. Ever since the 2004 US election i have noticed that politics has started to become an even bigger force on ATS, we thought P@ATS would keep it out of ATS, but it hasn't.

All we hear is, liberal this, liberal that and Republican this and Republican that, its sicken now and its ruining a once perfect community. How can we forget the recent US Vs Europe threads that have appeared? its unbelievable to see how many heated threads we get every day by people who are trolling, point grabbing and just ruining the community. Im not "trying to be a mod", im not "arse kissing the mods" and im not "trying to be a hero", im just pointing out a problem we have here.

We all like debates, but there is a difference between a debate and an agruement, arguements is what we mostly have here at ATS. It would be nice, just once, if we can have one debate that doesn't turn into a slug fest.

Lets try to play nice here....

People like fresh ideas and new concepts. The inevitable onset of intellectual rigor mortis can come after one pass of an idea.

Debates were great the first time, they were new and they were fun because we got to mix it up with each other. Now they have become somewhat stale. These should be refreshed, perhaps we should be doing "Current Events" debates where one person defends something and another opposes it.

The Research Projects were a good idea but now I have seen them degrade somewhat.

I feel we have become a humdrum board content to merely tick over, the same threads with fresh ideas coming too far apart for my liking.

I have great faith in podcasts but I really think the staff should be asking "What do you want from ATS" rather than "what can we implement next".

this is clearly a liberal left ploy. or maybe a neocon plot. i'm not sure, but, oh boy, when i find out what 'side' you're on, you're gonna get both barrels. (this is humour. laugh now)

really, though.
i didn't like it when i started a thread on a conspiracy in religion, which was CLEARLY a conspiratorial theory, and clearly religious, it was moved, without giving a reason, to the 'backwater' of BTS. this happened to my scott ritter story, which was TRUE and UNBIASED, started at ATSNN, moved to ATS, and moved yet yet again to BTS, because some mod doesn't like me.
(to be fair, another mod who doesn't like me put it back into ATS, but only after i caused the drama meter to go off)
so, in my eyes, there is more than political segergation here, there is also the segregation of ideas. our minds use fuzzy logic to turn chaos into patterns. the board no longer reflects this natural flow of thought. there is too much compartmentalisation. the whole job of a conspiracy theorist is to connect the dots. the once modest number of rooms is now VAST, and the dots are re-disconnected. i'm pretty frustrated with all the meme-stonewalling. FREE THE WILD MEME!!!!
i feel the whole approach to the rash of 'violence' here has been ineffective. the idea was fair enough, ...people are fightin about politics, so put politics in it's own forum, and keep ATS civil. it just doesn't work. things are too interconnected. if bush waqs plotting with ratzinger, where would i be able to discuss it? politics? global events? conspiracy in religion? NWO? or would it end up in the general discussion of belowbelowmodestsecret.

you know, the whole advantage of hypertext over regular text is that it is linkable and non-linear. the organisation of ATS has become increasingly linear, and this is not taking full advantage of the possibilities of hypertext. the google ads along the side of the page, on the other hand, are taking FULL advantage of the power of hyperlinking. it's practically frickin' psychic, that ad server.

Winston, I think the problem boils down to bickering between members. We discuss topics that have us split 50/50. There will always be those that will disagree with what is being said. The only thing that can be done is to educate people on the subject, but because in many cases we don't always have the truth, it is hard to get any kind of agreement.

Restraint may help but I don't think it is the solution. Trying to control the response of members will only upset those whose posts are edited or removed. You may be able to teach members not to respond without a well thought out answer.

People also need to be educated about the media and the news they put out. They may release articles that are true, but is it always the whole truth? Most people see CNN news as reliable and Rense as not so reliable. What people don't realize is that CNN is more controlled then places like Rense.

An idea I mentioned in the past that I think would help to stop some of the bickering was to rate members by their knowledge of conspiracy and education in different areas. If a member was rated as an expert in a certain area, those who are rated as a novice may not argue with them as much. A novice or noob making a statement wouldn't get attacked as much if the expert members saw that they were uneducated in that area.

Instead of making the popular posters who have the gift of writing moderators, have them use their skills to educate members. Let them provide a basic course in their field of expertise. These can be very basic or advanced. Use these tests to rate members. Use the researched topics as another source of guidelines for tests.

The point system may be another area that needs work. Some members seem to just post anything in order to get points. These points are used for entering RATS and it's monthly fee, adding color and avatars. So this encourages new members who may be uneducated to post a lot. I see this as one cause of some of the bickering. Give members points for educating themselves and getting a rating.

Anyway these are just a few of my thoughts I wanted to share with members.

Nice to hear from you again Winston. Although we have never met, I remember you well. Although I have refrained from posting for some time, I do check in on a regular basis hoping the current muddle can be resolved. While I certainly understand management's position regarding drama I can't help but think that their methods are backfiring and the more criticism they take, the more entrenched they become. Like many I find the "disappearing" of members and threads highly ironic and somewhat unsettling. I appreciate the fact that drama can sidetrack people from the mission at hand, however pretending something never happened is just not the way to go. When trying to massage the the masses into a predetermined vision of board culture, being open about who transgressed and why is just as important as mission statements. Giving Timmy a "time out" in class is not just about Timmy. The rest of the class needs to know why he was banished so that they can learn from it as well. While I don't object to trashing of threads, I do object to not being able to peek at the garbage. Silence and occasional snark on management's part only aggravates the problem IMHO.

[edit on 17-5-2005 by deevee]