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Jihad-shmihad!

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posted on May, 16 2005 @ 10:02 AM
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What does Jihad mean? Of course we all know it means “holy war”, the actual definition is: “A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels” But what exactly does a declaration of Jihad mean today?

Not a damn thing, that’s what.

How many “jihads” are actually going on right now? Does anybody even know? There is even #1 searched Google site called Jihad Watch dedicated to news about Jihads.

How can the term “Jihad” have any meaning when it is declared by one group or another about 100 times a day it seams? Whose jihad is real? Which one is sanctioned and which is not?

Robert Spencer from Jihad Watch just recently wrote:

“Afghan Muslim leaders demand handover of Qur'an desecrators

Never mind that it didn't happen. "Afghan Ulema demands hand over of desecrators of Holy Quran," from GEO World News, with thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist:

KABUL: At least three hundred Ulema in Afghanistan have demanded the US that those responsible for the desecration of the Holy Quran at Guantanamo Bay must be handed over in three days otherwise a Jihad would be launched against the US.

What was that thing that happened on 9/11/01?

That wasn't a jihad?

This is another example of a tendency that has run through Islamic history: when something happens that Muslims see as a provocation, they declare jihad and use it as a pretext for jihad recruitment. What if a jihad was already going on? No matter: the pretext changes, the jihad remains. I wrote an article about this recently. Remember this the next time someone tells you that if only we would leave Iraq, or stop supporting Israel, or what have you, there would be peace with the Islamic world. That idea is based on ignorance of the jihad ideology"




He basically states that no matter what happens, there is always a “jihad” going on against the west. So, no matter what we hear or read about regarding declarations of jihad, its basically meaningless. The extreme Islamic groups will always be involved in a jihad against non Muslims no matter what is done to "prevent" it.

The bottom line is, now days the term “jihad” is used so often it has no meaning whatsoever. I translate jihad into: “we want to fight you, seriously”. I actually had a neighbor say to me “I waged jihad against the weeds in my garden last weekend”. And this guy is a little Italian guy from New Jersey!

Jihad = Nothing.


[edit on 16-5-2005 by skippytjc]




posted on May, 16 2005 @ 01:07 PM
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actuily the true meaning of Jihad is struggle and can mean diffrent types




Muslims are commanded in the Qur'an to "enjoin good and forbid evil" (9:112). The word Jihad stems from the Arabic root word J-H-D, which means "strive." Other words derived from this root include "effort," "labor," and "fatigue." Essentially Jihad is an effort to practice religion in the face of oppression and persecution. The effort may come in fighting the evil in your own heart, or in standing up to a dictator. Military effort is included as an option, but as a last resort and not "to spread Islam by the sword" as the stereotype would have you believe.





islam.about.com...

aaiil.org...

www.dma.org...


Jihad was only used 2 times as means of holy war
and that was when the crusaders broke a treaty with sarcerians and the afgan war ( soviets occupation )




What does Jihad mean? Of course we all know it means “holy war”, the actual definition is: “A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels” But what exactly does a declaration of Jihad mean today?


this is the biigest bull i have read ( sorry it is )

[edit on 16-5-2005 by bodrul]



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 01:14 PM
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Jihasd, realistically, is precisely the same as Crusde. Its a sanctified struggle. We can have a crusade against poverty, or a crusade to recapture jerusalem. We can crusade against our own passions, or we can join the crusade against terror. A muslim can engage in jihad against heterodoxy, by railling against it in religious conclaves and publishing orthodoxic tracts, or he can take a weapon and join the commandos in the desert.

The thing to remember is that there is no central islamic comittee, that decides these things. A group in Spain can declare jihad against bin ladin, or a number of clerics can issue an official fatwa against him. At the same time, commandos in waziristand can call for jihad against the tyranny of musharraf. Months later they can call for jihad again, for similar reasons, against the same thing.

It is simply a struggle. To the rest of us, its a foreign word, so we think it has to mean what we interpret it as meaning. In reality, its 'meaning' is context dependant. When bin ladin calls for a jihad against america, he's talking about rallying, organizing, and killing; military action. When another guy in the suburbs calls for a jihad against pornography, he's not necessarily saying "lets take out AKs and shoot the windows out of Penthouse!"

Its hardly a 'criticism' of islamic society that 'jihad' is a variable term.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 01:48 PM
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The term Jihad is used daily. Its meaningless. There is nothing else to say about it.

Newsweek boffs a story about the Qur'an and the Afghans threaten Jihad. Salman Rushdie writes a book and there is jihad against him.

I am starting to think that "jihad" is how the people of Islam say "hello" to westerners...

[edit on 16-5-2005 by skippytjc]

[edit on 16-5-2005 by skippytjc]



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
The term Jihad is used daily. Its meaningless. There is nothing else to say about it.

So you are requesting that the thread is closed??

I am starting to think that "jihad" is how the people of Islam say "hello" to westerners...

And bombs being dropped is how they figure the west knocks on their door. So what?



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by skippytjc
The term Jihad is used daily. Its meaningless. There is nothing else to say about it.

So you are requesting that the thread is closed??


As you may have figured it out, Skippy needs his daily fix of an anti-islamic post. The topic isn't exatly material as long as it provides enough fuel for Skilly to reach the hang-all-muslims climax.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 02:07 PM
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If the thread needs to be closed then close it.

But the point of it, is to discuss the meaning of Jihad. Not literal definition of it, but what it means in the world today and how its part ot terrorism.

Jihad is a meaningless term, rendered that way by the very people who use it.

Its also pointless to try to stop or avert new "jihads" as the old ones are constant, jihad is a permanent condition

If none of you guys are open minded enough to discuss the overuse of this term, then yes, go ahead and close the thread.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc

If none of you guys are open minded enough to discuss the overuse of this term, then yes, go ahead and close the thread.


only one here that needs to be is you
all we get from you 24/7 here is your islam bashing topics
backed up by uncredible sources


one question
are you Drharoacid?


[edit on 16-5-2005 by bodrul]



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc

Salman Rushdie writes a book and there is jihad against him.
[edit on 16-5-2005 by skippytjc]

[edit on 16-5-2005 by skippytjc]


Actually a "Fatwa" was issued on Salman Rushdie, not a "jihad"
dictionary.reference.com...

And as previously pointed out the word Jihad stems from the arabic jahada: To strive. Jihad simply means a struggle.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by bodrul

only one here that needs to be is you
all we get from you 24/7 here is your islam bashing topics
backed up by uncredible sources


one question
are you Drharoacid?


[edit on 16-5-2005 by bodrul]


#1 I don’t bash Islam, I bash Islamic extremism. Huge difference, maybe someday you will be intelligent enough to realize the difference.
#2 I’m sorry most of you see being pro USA as against Islam, that’s your ignorance.
#3 I am not the Dr, and you failed miserably at offending me by making that assumption.

Just because your emotions control your "logic" and you are incapable at actually seeing why a term like "jihad" is meaningless now days doesn’t mean that others may not want to discuss it.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
#1 I don’t bash Islam, I bash Islamic extremism. Huge difference, maybe someday you will be intelligent enough to realize the difference.


thats a bit hard to reconise with your posts


Originally posted by skippytjc
#2 I’m sorry most of you see being pro USA as against Islam, that’s your ignorance.


so everyone that is pro american has to be ingnorant like your self
sorry but feeding rubbish into people's minds is pure ignorance
saying Jihad only means one thing is even bigger show of ignorance ( do some resaerch )


Originally posted by skippytjc

#3 I am not the Dr, and you failed miserably at offending me by making that assumption.



sorry thats the vibe i get
since thats all he does most of the time and you sound exactly like
him ( not go a day without bashing islam )


Originally posted by skippytjc
Just because your emotions control your "logic" and you are incapable at actually seeing why a term like "jihad" is meaningless now days doesn’t mean that others may not want to discuss it.


aka again do some resaerch first ( might help you )



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
If the thread needs to be closed then close it.

I don't think it needs to be closed, i think that there is material for discussion. You're the one thats saying that there isn't.


But the point of it, is to discuss the meaning of Jihad. Not literal definition of it, but what it means in the world today and how its part ot terrorism.

We're not debating semantics tho, we are looking at how its actually used.


Jihad is a meaningless term, rendered that way by the very people who use it.

Its as meaningless as the words 'big struggle', sure.


Its also pointless to try to stop or avert new "jihads" as the old ones are constant, jihad is a permanent condition

I'd think that, if a man declares a jihad (of anykind) then he must struggle until he wins. But merely becuase person A declares jihad doesn't mean that Person B is required to engage in it, and it doesn't mean that he can't, independantly, declare his own struggle.


If none of you guys are open minded enough to discuss the overuse of this term, then yes, go ahead and close the thread.

How is it over-use?

Just because your emotions control your "logic"

I'm sorry but, if you were merely beign logical then your wouldn't be near obessed with islam and iran, there are lots of threats, iran is one of many, and there are lots of religions with problems, islam is one of many. Your parochial focus speaks against it being a dispassionate and merely logical consideration.

[edit on 16-5-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 02:51 PM
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I do not really know the exact meaning of a Jihad, however..

I was always led to believe that a Jihad was only called to take land back from invaders.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 02:55 PM
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The term jihad is only over-used by those who do not know it's true meaning, and by the American media. It was not until Bush started using the word crusade, and claiming to be a "messenger of God" who is doing "the lords work", did the term start getting thrown around more. Rightfully so, as well, when the leader of the free world starts talking like a knights templar, it would appear that the jihad was on.

Before all this crap when I was a child, I had a white rabbit named jihad because he tore up my garden soo much


Once again though the word jihad simply means a struggle.
"Jihad is of three kinds; viz., the carrying out of a struggle against : 1. a visible enemy, 2. the devil, 3. one's self (nafs)."
www.muslim.org...

Jihad has the literal meaning of exerting our best and greatest effort to achieve something. It is not the equivalent of war, for which the Arabic word is qital.

www.dislam.org...

Over the last 20 years or so, extremist have invoked, what they term as an "islamic jihad", which simply means an islamic struggle. Stop listening to fox, and your neighbor with his weedwacking, and look up the definition before you start throwing it around soo much yourself
[edited twice for more info, and spelling]
[edit on 16-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

[edit on 16-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by skippytjc
#1 I don’t bash Islam, I bash Islamic extremism. Huge difference, maybe someday you will be intelligent enough to realize the difference.


thats a bit hard to reconise with your posts



Please quote one refference of me bashing Islam. Come on, you made the accusation back it up.

Go to members, type in "skippytjc" and select view all posts. Im waiting.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 03:34 PM
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hmmm

I would say that the misuse of the term "jihad" is overused by extremists and the media.

By that I mean following:
extremist Muslims have misused Jihad for their own fight against whatever it is on their agenda. Jihad is a strugle allowed by God, be it a personal or a bigger strugle like war.
What extremists are calling "Jihad" is actually not allowed by God if you interpret Qur'an properly, so it is not a true Jihad. They are just overusing the term to get more followers on thier side.

Now, their misused term is the only Jihad ever mentioned in the media, it is totaly overused in news reports. That is why many people don't know what Jihad actually is.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
Please quote one refference of me bashing Islam.

Well, from this thread itself there's

This is another example of a tendency that has run through Islamic history: when something happens that Muslims see as a provocation, they declare jihad and use it as a pretext for jihad recruitment.

This can reasonably be read mean simply that islamics are excitable and raring to go to war. I mean, you could say 'I meant that the extremists keep doing this", but, when you are talking about all of the history, it takes on a 'larger' character. Regardless, it doesn't take 'anti-americanness' or anything to see that as a 'bash' on islam.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by paperclip
..............
What extremists are calling "Jihad" is actually not allowed by God if you interpret Qur'an properly, so it is not a true Jihad....


If that is true then why did they wage a jihad against the world when the Muslims were converted to Islam in the 7th century?

It wasn't a peaceful jihad, it was a jihad by the sword.

And if what you said is true then why did Mohammed, the prophet, called for raids, and for the deaths of jewish people even after they were captured, and anyone that did not submit to Islam before the first jihad was ever fought?

I know there are moderate Muslims, but there are quite a lot of extremists out there. What exactly is the reason that there are so many Muslim radicals? Perhaps looking at some of the things that Mohammed did will anwser that question.

If the Christian/Catholic's main prophet/messiah did the same thing as Mohammed did, i would be saying the same thing about Christianity/Catholicism.

If Islamic extremism was a result of just a few people being misguided, i would understand, but looking at the prophet and what the first converted Muslims did I can see why there are so many radical Muslims at this time.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 12:38 AM
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As an arab, I would like to clarify something: the word 'jihad' in arabic is not some hush-hush, archaic word that people only speak when the muslim leaders declare jihad against something. Its not some secret weapon kept quiet until it is unleashed. It is a VERY common word. very much like the use of the word 'struggle' in different contexts. It is also a very common male name. My uncle, my father's brother, is named Jihad. Oh, and by the way, it is not pronounced 'jee-had', with the emphasis on the 'ee' sound in the middle and on the 'd' sound at the end. the emphasis is actually on the 'a' sound. So, phonetically, Jihad is pronounced 'jihaad', with the j sounding like the first g in 'george'.

Please note that just because you have only just started hearing it on your western news networks, doesn't mean it has only just started being used. The context in which I think all of you mean it in, a holy struggle against all that is not islamic (dar-al-harb) is by FAR the least common usage of the word.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

This is another example of a tendency that has run through Islamic history: when something happens that Muslims see as a provocation, they declare jihad and use it as a pretext for jihad recruitment.


That wasnt me, thats the article. So basically, you cannot find on instance of me bashing Islam.

And that quote you just used as an example, is hardly a bash.



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