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Brits: Trigger-happy US troops 'will keep us in Iraq for years'

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posted on May, 16 2005 @ 12:12 AM
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Some British Defense chiefs are expressing objection to some US practices in Iraq, saying that they're making the same mistakes that the Brits made in Ireland.

The shoot first policy may be causing problems that may result in an extended insurgency.



telegraph.co.uk
A British officer said that some of the tactics employed by American forces would not be approved by British commanders.

The officer said: "US troops have the attitude of shoot first and ask questions later. They simply won't take any risk.

"It has been explained to US commanders that we made mistakes in Northern Ireland, namely Bloody Sunday, and paid the price.

"I explained that their tactics were alienating the civil population and could lengthen the insurgency by a decade. Unfortunately, when we ex-plained our rules of engagement which are based around the principle of minimum force, the US troops just laughed."




posted on May, 16 2005 @ 12:18 AM
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Uh-huh. One British soldier must be telling the truth and is right. Take his word, Iraq is a mess despite the millions of Iraqis that said otherwise in elections last year.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by lukethedrifter
Uh-huh. One British soldier must be telling the truth and is right. Take his word, Iraq is a mess despite the millions of Iraqis that said otherwise in elections last year.


So you think Iraq is not a mess even though the US death rate, two years into the war, is still as high as it was during the first months of the war and the insurgency is still as strong or stronger?

35 US soldiers and 400 Iraqis have been killed by insurgents in the last two weeks and at least 100 insurgents have by killed by the US in the last two weeks. Yeah, this guy is probably just biased because it sounds like things are going great over there.

BTW, it's not just some random soldier who is saying this.
If you read the article it says: British defence chiefs have warned United States military commanders in Iraq to change their rules for opening fire or face becoming bogged down in a terrorist war for a decade or more.

[edit on 16-5-2005 by AceOfBase]



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 12:42 AM
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A British officer said that some of the tactics employed by American forces would not be approved by British commanders.

The officer said: "US troops have the attitude of shoot first and ask questions later. They simply won't take any risk.

"It has been explained to US commanders that we made mistakes in Northern Ireland, namely Bloody Sunday, and paid the price.

"I explained that their tactics were alienating the civil population and could lengthen the insurgency by a decade. Unfortunately, when we ex-plained our rules of engagement which are based around the principle of minimum force, the US troops just laughed."


The article points out what everyone knows expect for the Americans themselvs that is the US military is useless at hearts and mind ops . Counter insurgency warfare isnt a strength of the US military.
Take away the firepower and the US military is almost useless.

Plus the US military is still fighting a convental war. I wont even start on the fact the occupation was bungled .



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 01:43 AM
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So you think Iraq is not a mess even though the US death rate, two years into the war, is still as high as it was during the first months of the war and the insurgency is still as strong or stronger?
Okay, we took over the country from Saddam and just successfully institued a democratic government with less than 2,000 dead. You're right it's a horrible mess.

35 US soldiers and 400 Iraqis have been killed by insurgents in the last two weeks and at least 100 insurgents have by killed by the US in the last two weeks. Yeah, this guy is probably just biased because it sounds like things are going great over there.
We had a major offensive by the Syrian boarder. So far the terrorists have done nothing tactical. If they had any power whatsoever, they would have stopped the election. The election was a resounding success and gave the death blow to the terroirst, whoops, I mean insurgent movement.

More Iraqis are joining their own police movements.

How much do you want to bet that we are out of there within ten years. I will also bet that Iraq becomes a major economic powerhouse and is up there with S. Korea, Japan, Germany, UK and US?



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 02:02 AM
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How much do you want to bet that we are out of there within ten years. I will also bet that Iraq becomes a major economic powerhouse and is up there with S. Korea, Japan, Germany, UK and US?


Creditablity is whats on the line and sadly so is the future of Iraq. Iraqi sercuity forces are a joke even if Im wrong (and I want to be in this case.) and Iraq has a stable future the econmic climate differs from the post WW2 one.

In 1945 there no cheap imports from China and the likes of Hailburton wasnt given work that the military or the local people should be doing. This time around Marshall aid has to many strings attached.

[edit on 16-5-2005 by xpert11]



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 02:12 AM
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Two things here:



...such as in Londonderry in Northern Ireland...

First, Iraq is not Northern Ireland.



...on a recent trip to southern Iraq and Baghdad to visit British troops.

Second, the British are in Basra, southern Iraq, by the sea [how lovely]. US troops are operating and taking on the majority of operations. Sunni Triangle ring a bell? Hello?

Of interest to you AceOfBase, and others?
British Way in Iraq Yields to Harsh Reality Troops from Scotland's Black Watch, which operates in the relatively calm south, found they needed helmets, not berets, near Baghdad.



"But there's no British solution or French solution or American solution. Iraq is not Malaysia or Northern Ireland or Vietnam. It's like a cookbook: You mix different ingredients to get your dish."

To American soldiers here, the more laconic British style and the boasting that goes with it are founded on nothing more than the good fortune of being based in southern Iraq, populated by Shiite Muslims who hated Saddam Hussein.

Come to the Sunni Triangle, U.S. troops would tell their British counterparts with an edge in their voices, and you'll see the real Iraq.

In October, the British did, and found themselves on a steep learning curve.

"For the IRA, the biggest part of the plan was the escape route after they attacked us," said Cpl. Jay Kinge, a British paratrooper who served in Northern Ireland and joined Marines on 11 joint patrols south of Baghdad in November. "The difference between the insurgents here and the IRA is that these guys are willing to die to hit us."


Keep talking 'blokes'.
This article presented by AceOfBase is nothing more than opinionated crap fit for columnists, not real reporters and journalists. But other than maybe the BBC or Reuters, 'a' typical as norm for the anti-American British press...





seekerof

[edit on 16-5-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 03:02 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
:



First, Iraq is not Northern Ireland.


I agree.



Keep talking 'blokes'.
This article presented by AceOfBase is nothing more than opinionated crap fit for columnists, not real reporters and journalists. But other than maybe the BBC or Reuters, 'a' typical as norm for the anti-American British press...





seekerof



Ani Americam press !


Any media outlet that dares to present facts rather then the US military is perfect is anti American


Hearts and minds ops have never been a US military strength that is fact not anti American bias.

[edit on 16-5-2005 by xpert11]



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 04:50 AM
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Iraq is not NI ,

It is very similar, the interaction with the local people techniques where learned in NI. The US military used to send men and women to NI to learn from the troops there.

Also are you saying because we are not doing most of the work and are in a less threat area that we cant comment on the tactics used by our allies?

Also british press is not anti american, thats just an opinion, a very idiotic one at that.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 06:16 AM
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Trigger-happy US troops 'will keep us in Iraq for years'

Hey - Thats exactly what the Army WANTS!

More War Means More Money.

And More Money Means More Power.

So basicly, a Lasting Military presence in Iraq means Business.

Does the Army really want to End this War?

Is it really in their best efforts to stop the violence once and for all?

Apparently the British Commanders are the first to realize, this war is not going to be an "In & Out Procedure".



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Trigger-happy US troops 'will keep us in Iraq for years'

Hey - Thats exactly what the Army WANTS!

More War Means More Money.

And More Money Means More Power.

So basicly, a Lasting Military presence in Iraq means Business.

Does the Army really want to End this War?

Is it really in their best efforts to stop the violence once and for all?

Apparently the British Commanders are the first to realize, this war is not going to be an "In & Out Procedure".


yeah we have to learn from the British and be able to defeat the enemy with patience like the Brits did in Ireland. The IRA has lost popular support and now is into negotiating which means they are desperate to show that they won.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 06:51 PM
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This is no surprise.

We offered you training support before the invasion - you chose to be trained by the SS/IDF. You're now reaping the whirlwind

My sympathies are with the US NCO's & grunts - paying the price (daily) for tactical and strategic naiveté. The US Army / Haliburton corporate machine clearly doesn't care about Iraq, democracy or its own troops.

UK army have an easier operational area it's true but at least we've learned to say 'Good Morning' in arabic (see Billythecat's earlier post).

Shouting at people in English doesn't build relationships or win hearts & minds.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by CTID56092
This is no surprise.

We offered you training support before the invasion - you chose to be trained by the SS/IDF. You're now reaping the whirlwind

My sympathies are with the US NCO's & grunts - paying the price (daily) for tactical and strategic naiveté. The US Army / Haliburton corporate machine clearly doesn't care about Iraq, democracy or its own troops.

UK army have an easier operational area it's true but at least we've learned to say 'Good Morning' in arabic (see Billythecat's earlier post).

Shouting at people in English doesn't build relationships or win hearts & minds.


it aint perfect since Brit troops still get killed.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 07:05 PM
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No mate I agree it ain't perfect. It never is. Too many angry people, hot metal and soft flesh.

But it could be a lot better - for the Iraqis and the poor US troops who, we know, are all just trying to get through it and return home safe.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 07:29 PM
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quote:
...on a recent trip to southern Iraq and Baghdad to visit British troops.

Second, the British are in Basra, southern Iraq, by the sea [how lovely]. US troops are operating and taking on the majority of operations. Sunni Triangle ring a bell? Hello?

Think you will find that there are british troops in Baghdad!

"yeah we have to learn from the British and be able to defeat the enemy with patience like the Brits did in Ireland. The IRA has lost popular support and now is into negotiating which means they are desperate to show that they won."

i hope you know this taken decades to achieve! but at the end all resistance fails, the longer they fight the longer we stay!!
The British military have fine tuned there skills in this area of warfare from hard lessons learnt in NI and the americans should listen and take those points on board! Hearts and Minds program does go along way!


cain.ulst.ac.uk...

[edit on 16/5/05 by jayce]



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