The Rapture Conspiracy...What Rapture?

I've been to college. My degree is in Business Admin. with a Political Science minor. I had to take courses with the Bible as it's focal point and I took comparitive religion courses. I have had my foray into organized religion. It didn't take with me.

My question is this. Where does everyone get this notion that a great rapture is going to take place? I don't see this spelled out anywhere in your scriptures.
I think that this is a false idea and interpretation that has been perpetrated on christians to scare them back into the pews, with a promise that they won't have to go through any of the bad stuff that is clearly spelled out in your scriptures.
If I'm wrong, tell me where it says that you folks are supposed to be removed from the earth before your tribulation period starts.
I do remember a passage about 144,000 saints being taken. If that's what you folks mean, then I'm afraid you're all being a little optimistic.

[edit on 15-5-2005 by freddieb]

I agree that some great pre-tribulation rapture is not a scripturally-sound idea. But I'll go further to say that I believe it is a very dangerous and misleading teaching. I believe there are a heap of Christians who are not aware - because they don't think they need to be.

Here are some verses believed to be proof of a pre-tribulation rapture:

Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Thess 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1 Thess 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
1 Thess 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Rev 3:10 Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.

If interested there is much more here:www.bibleprophesy.org...

None of the verses you quote promise you anything concerning a deliverence from the "days of tribulation". The only ones mentioned, for that promise are the saints that number, I think and I may be wrong 144,000.
Further more, some of your quotes are taken out of context. Not that there is anything special about that.
When talking of organized religion in general. That practice seems to be the rule rather than the exception.

Well anyone who tries to predict the end of times is well a moron. Not evan the angels in heavan know when the end of times will be.

Originally posted by freddieb
None of the verses you quote promise you anything concerning a deliverence from the "days of tribulation". The only ones mentioned, for that promise are the saints that number, I think and I may be wrong 144,000.
Further more, some of your quotes are taken out of context. Not that there is anything special about that.
When talking of organized religion in general. That practice seems to be the rule rather than the exception.

This is one of the quotes i gave above:

Rev 3:10 Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.

Did you bother to read the link i posted? Or you have it all figured out and every one else is delusional or stupid right?

I'll admit organized religions have their problems, but true Christianity does not require you to follow organized religion. Your relationship with GOD is a personal one, if you want to know read for yourself, If rapture is a hang-up for you i gave you a good place to start.

they miss zeph 2 when quoting rev 3. but that doesnt mean they are going anywhere. also 1thess4 MUST take into consideration 1thess4:13, 2thess2, and 1cr52.

2thess2 says any gather back to christ is after anti. 1cr52 lays it out at the last trumpet. (around verse 17). also 1thess4:13 sets the subject for 1thess4, and it isnt talking about rapture. also see ecc12:7 if you are confused.

and now to quote zeph 2 parallel to rev 3. also see psalms 91 on what being hid actually entails.

zep 2:3 seek the lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgement: seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be that ye shall be hid in the Day of the LORD's anger.

psalms 91:7 a thousand shall fall at thy side, ten thousand at thy right hand,;but it shall not come nigh thee. (verse 6 locks in the endtime application by alluring to the 3rd and 4th seal).

Originally posted by freddieb

My question is this. Where does everyone get this notion that a great rapture is going to take place? I don't see this spelled out anywhere in your scriptures.

There are other rapture threads where I have written down the verses and info on how they tell of a pretribulation rapture. Please, please look for them. It is very time consuming to post them over and over again. And this is a very important subject and you deserve to see the verses.

Originally posted by Rren

Originally posted by freddieb
None of the verses you quote promise you anything concerning a deliverence from the "days of tribulation". The only ones mentioned, for that promise are the saints that number, I think and I may be wrong 144,000.
Further more, some of your quotes are taken out of context. Not that there is anything special about that.
When talking of organized religion in general. That practice seems to be the rule rather than the exception.

This is one of the quotes i gave above:

Rev 3:10 Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.

Did you bother to read the link i posted? Or you have it all figured out and every one else is delusional or stupid right?

I'll admit organized religions have their problems, but true Christianity does not require you to follow organized religion. Your relationship with GOD is a personal one, if you want to know read for yourself, If rapture is a hang-up for you i gave you a good place to start.

The RAPTURE is not going to happen!
Quote///The Rapture actually refers to the ///////// “letters to the seven churches” of Revelation 2 and 3,
with each letter to the churches ..... for the Christians of that particular period.......The time period of the Christian church up until the end of the world....and we are now living in the LAST period of the Church .......''neither hot or cold,but warm.etc.''/that TRUE CHURCH will be kept FROM THE HOUR OF TRIAL...... teaching of the ''RAPTURE'' is not part of early church law......

www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org...

helen......

Also......QUOTE//
In the first lines of the Apocalypse,
St. John indicates the purpose of the Revelation: to foretell the fate of Christ's Church and of the whole world.
The mission of Christ's Church was to revive the world with Christian sermons, to plant in men's souls a true faith in God, to teach them to live righteously, and to show them the way to the Heavenly Kingdom.
However, not all received Christian teachings with good will.
Already during the first days after Pentecost, the Church encountered hostility and a conscious opposition to Christianity, at first from Jewish priests and scribes, and later from the unbelieving Jews and pagans.

www.fatheralexander.org...

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by freddieb

My question is this. Where does everyone get this notion that a great rapture is going to take place? I don't see this spelled out anywhere in your scriptures.

There are other rapture threads where I have written down the verses and info on how they tell of a pretribulation rapture. Please, please look for them. It is very time consuming to post them over and over again. And this is a very important subject and you deserve to see the verses.

Yep. Same here. Its also here www.GOOGLE.com...

Folks, those are just interpretations of verses that do not actually describe a Rapture.
That's like saying what the Bible says is true, because verse, such and such, of the Bible says it is.
I don't want to downplay anyone's beliefs.
I simply asked, where in the bible, without jumping all over the entire scripture record, with this verse refers to this verse, that refers to this verse...an so forth, does it say that there will be a Rapture or anything like it?
If the scripture is so cryptic that it needs great scholarly interpretation on the scale that you offer. Where's the hope for the common man?
I did google, the Rapture, before I posted this.
What I found is what is I've described above. I thought that maybe, since it seems to be such a widely held belief, I had missed a direct passage somewhere describing it.
I even search some of the verses you cite in the Greek Lexicon and Strong's Concordnance hoping I was missing something in the translations. No Luck with that route either.
So I am lead to believe that it is something that has been preached and accepted. Not something that is actually, specifically promised by scripture.
Much the same as alot of the current beliefs concernig hell and satan, do not originate from scripture but with a book, Dante'....oh what's the use?

www.belowtopsecret.com...

My post is the 3rd from the bottom. There you will find the source of the rapture

If people are going to be raptured then why is it said we must take our cross and suffer like Jesus. Would'nt it have been better to rapture people who were really dying for God when they were being fed to lions in the Roman Empire. Its funny how muslims are the ones who arent affraid to die when it should be the christians who were taught that by Jesus. all his desciples but one were eventually killed, look at the example they set. Rapture is just some excuse for people who are affraid to die. And if another christion prosecution begins again the people who beleive in rapture wont be ready for whats really coming. Death! of the flesh. dont hold your breath for the rapture

1cr52 i also quoted. notice it says LAST TRUMP. thats the 7th one in revelations. theres nothing pretrib about it. rev 13 and isiah 57 make it clear that people are persecuted. The hiding of the Day of the Lords anger as per zep 2 is the 7 vials not the seals or trumps. (or specifically the 7th vial, as the last chapters of Job describe)

rev 3:10. the word Keep in "keep thee from the hour of temptation". means to guard or watchover. that seems more in line with psalms 91 and zeph 2.

Originally posted by jake1997
www.belowtopsecret.com...

My post is the 3rd from the bottom. There you will find the source of the rapture

You've made my point.
You BELIEVE in a Rapture because you think that everything in the NT has an OT counterpart.
There isn't a passage that actually describes the pre-tribulation rapture as an actual event to be expected.
That was my point!
The NT and OT passages you cite do not describe or infer a pre-tirbulation Rapture. You simply, by extrapolation, BELIEVE that they do. Jesus never promised this, niether did the OT prophets you cite, and niether did the writers of the NT gospels.

Originally posted by freddieb

Originally posted by jake1997
www.belowtopsecret.com...

My post is the 3rd from the bottom. There you will find the source of the rapture

You've made my point.
You BELIEVE in a Rapture because you think that everything in the NT has an OT counterpart.
There isn't a passage that actually describes the pre-tribulation rapture as an actual event to be expected.
That was my point!
The NT and OT passages you cite do not describe or infer a pre-tirbulation Rapture. You simply, by extrapolation, BELIEVE that they do. Jesus never promised this, niether did the OT prophets you cite, and niether did the writers of the NT gospels.

I gave the OT as a witness. The NT states it clearly in that post.
Its no big deal to you and me. I can explain it to you on the way up. But for those left behind, they need to understand that so they dont fall for the AC

Originally posted by freddieb
I simply asked, where in the bible, without jumping all over the entire scripture record, with this verse refers to this verse, that refers to this verse...an so forth, does it say that there will be a Rapture or anything like it?

If the scripture is so cryptic that it needs great scholarly interpretation on the scale that you offer. Where's the hope for the common man?

I even search some of the verses you cite in the Greek Lexicon and Strong's Concordnance hoping I was missing something in the translations. No Luck with that route either.

there's more than one verse that tells of the rapture and that it is before the tribulation. This certainly won't be all of them, since I'm doing this from memory
2 Thessalonians ch. 2
Luke 21:36
Acts 14:14-17
Matthew 16:18 (the rock is that Christ is the savior)
Matthew 24:22&24
Mark 13:20
Luke 21:28
Revelation 3:10

Colossians 3:12 & Revelation 1:5-6, 3:8, 4:1, 4:4, 5:8-10(all in conjunction together)

1 Thessalonians 5:9
Titus 2:13

I am a common man. I never went to college and used to farm and now I work at Walmart.

Take your Strong's and look up escape from Luke 21:36 and residue from Acts 14:14-17.

Originally posted by mastergallo
If people are going to be raptured then why is it said we must take our cross and suffer like Jesus.

Because we are called to reject the ways of this world and live for Christ right now. That's not easy. Try to tell people about Jesus. They will laugh and call you stupid and make fun of you. We are to live for God and not for ourselves. If you do this people will think you are a fool. But we are called to tell them no matter what the response.

The rapture will have people eager to leave, they will worship anyone who comes around saying he will take them away. now thats a very dangerous thing. How can people think that he will take them away people die every second what makes you so special. it's an honor to die for Jesus and his desciples knew it. thats why they were all eager for death. Rapture is never mentioned in scripture and was invented by some woman in the 1800's . In the old testament heaven is barely mentioned, but there is no word of rapture

Why dont people want to die for Jesus. Is'nt he worth it?

Originally posted by mastergallo
The rapture will have people eager to leave, they will worship anyone who comes around

Lets say there's no rapture and a man come and says he's Christ and does miracles and he just happens to come after a very bad war in the middle east( maybe a couple other places see some of this bad war also). Are you going to worship him?

[edit on 16-5-2005 by dbrandt]