Holy War unless bush hands over desocrators of koran

Originally posted by curme
No one knows whether this really happened or not, but what is sad that is that it is so easy to believe. When did the US become such a pathetic nation? When did we lose all respectablility? There was a time that if this allegation came out the world would say, "No, not the USA!" now it's "Yeah, probably the USA".

The USA used to stand for freedom, liberty, morals, and all of that good stuff. Now it's just a mechansim for those in power to stay rich. I mean come on people! What are the odds that an ex-President's son is qualified to be President! And another governor! Jeez!

Okay curme, I will admit that this administration is not very diplomatic and has needlessly gone out of its way to appear offensive and smug sometimes. But firstly, if it was that easy for George W Bush to lose a popularity contest to Saddam Hussien, I think that we were already very close to being as hated as we are now. The world is just at a point where it is hateful of america. A lot of the post-war generation are dying off now, and the new generation raised on mistrust of government and 'liberation' is one that is far more ready to just point the finger at the biggest kid on the block. In South Korea for instance, support for america is abysmally low within the younger population, but much higher amongst the old.

And also, no offense, but you didn't really back up what you said. And it isn't really relevant to this thread of discussing the desecration allegations is it?

respectfully yours,
archangel

This is idle rhetoric and nothing more.

Anyone know the concept of extradition?

Say a crime took place in Ohio, and the criminal ran to Florida and was apprehended there, they can be extradited back to Ohio.

This seems to be the concept these folks are talking about, however it does not apply.

1) If this ALLEGED incident did in fact happen, it took place on United States territory and would be the responsibility of the United States to try them (which if it did occur, I hope they do get tried for it).

2) Extradition deals, while nothing new, can ONLY occur between two sovereign states or nations. Not between the US Army and a group of men wearing masks and brandishing machine guns. The US government is not in the business of "handing over" troops (guilty of criminal conduct or not) to militia groups. In fact NO COUNTRY on the planet would hand over any citizen to a militia group. Don't bother arguing that, you know it's true.

3) Even if it was a specific country making the claim, what basis do they have? The "clerics" in their statement mention "an Islamic country." On what basis? Say they want it to be Qatar? Did the crime take place on Qatar territory, or against Qatar nationals? Are we now stating that simply because they're Muslim and so are those guys in Gitmo, that's why they can try them? That doesn't fit any concept of proper extradition either and most likely would not be entertained by ANY country.

As such, this is just idle rhetoric by a group that basically watches CNN and reads news reports all day looking for something to start fights with.

Don't get me wrong, no one has the right to desecrate someone else's religion. For any purpose. I consider that disgraceful behavior that should be dealt with. But to think that the US is going to give one or two of its soldiers over to a rag tag group of gunmen to decide what to do with them, and where, is just funny.

[edit on 5-15-2005 by Djarums]

Originally posted by Djarums

Don't get me wrong, no one has the right to desecrate someone else's religion. For any purpose. I consider that disgraceful behavior that should be dealt with. But to think that the US is going to give one or two of its soldiers over to a rag tag group of gunmen to decide what to do with them, and where, is just funny.

[edit on 5-15-2005 by Djarums]

Agreed. I doubt that we'll hand them over. But then we've got some problems, because this will undoubtably undo a lot of the work that has gone into Afghanistan. Not to mention inspire a few more people to strap explosives onto themselves.

On the other hand, if we capitulate to these demands, we'll just be weakening our position, and disregarding the staggering hypocrisy of those demands. And weakness is not something America can afford.

So one option means more suicide bombers, and the other leaves us less able to handle them. Outstanding

This was my favorite quote from the article:

"Muslims consider the Quran the literal word of God and treat each book with deep reverence."

See what trouble "belief systems" or B.S as I like to call it can lead to. My theory is we should all keep out B.S to ourselves.


The only "true" religion is a private and personal one -
The only "true" government is self-government -

Do what thou wilt....

These may be of interests to some here?
Newsweek sparks global riots with one paragraph on Koran
Regrets from Newsweek





seekerof

Well, I honestly hope that they can realize that if this did happen then it was the act of a few extreme individuals and doesn’t represent the whole of the American nation. It is important that they remain calm and do nothing harsh, like declaring Jihad, because you shouldn’t judge a whole group of people by the actions of a few demented iindividuals. Umm, Wait a second, this sounds familiar…..

It didn't happen. It sounded phony from the start.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 05/5/15 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by skychief
you shouldn’t judge a whole group of people by the actions of a few demented iindividuals. Umm, Wait a second, this sounds familiar…..

the united states ( and a lot of its people ) and Israel do this every day
for the actions of a few people thousends of others feel the brunt

Its funny seeing people post as if turning the accused over to extremists is actualy an option lol...

I personaly would burn flush you name it right infront of those sob's that want to kill me, if they are true to there faith, then it shouldnt effect them at all its only paper, all that maters is whats inside, if the burning of a book can set them off as it seems to be doing, i question there faith.

[edit on 15-5-2005 by C0le]

Originally posted by nukunuku
so is there anyone sane enough to know that destroying others holy books is a really REALLY STUPID THING TO DO?????

the fact is, the report about that happening WAS WRONG..

That may be true COle, but what is even more ridiculous, as well as humorous, is that people and ATS members can continue to spew drivel and believe such, regardless of my posted above links and Grady's link, indicating that the story is being misinterpreted and amounts to hogwash.

Sad state of affairs on this board and in this world when normally intelligent people become easily seduced and swayed by anything that makes the US appear in a bad light.

Interesting, no?




seekerof

[edit on 15-5-2005 by Seekerof]

and the koran isnt even small enough to be flushed, funny how logic goes away if its mentioned america might have done something bad.

Dunno, Grady's link suggests it may not have happened, but does not definitively state that it didn't.

Of course we shouldn't be handing people over to a bunch of fanatics even if it did happen, but if it did, IMHO the people responsible ought to be punished. Publicly and harshly.

We must recognize that we are not in a conflict with the Muslim world as a whole (despite what some might like to believe, or for that matter like to happen), but instead are caught in a conflict within the Muslim world, between moderates and fanatics.

We must be careful to help the moderates defeat the fanatics, without driving more people into the arms of OBL and the like. Attacks on Islam as a whole (which destroying a Quran is certain to be seen as) are not only repugnant, but counterproductive, in that they tend to bolster the fanatics' case.

[edit on 5/15/05 by xmotex]

Originally posted by Seekerof

Seems like there been a couple threads similar in that respect in the last week or so, I read your post, Im just entertaining, the What if factor, if ya get what i mean.

You make some excellent points xmotex.
My problem with Newsweek is that what they reported and printed may be along the lines of another RatherGate, in that, there was a failure along the lines of sacred journalism and reporting to verify and re-verify what was being claimed and alleged before going to press with it.

Will they ever admit such? Not likely, but they sure are doing a hellva' job in recanting and backtracking.

Newsweek backs off Quran desecration story




seekerof

[edit on 15-5-2005 by Seekerof]

Karzai has stated FTR that "foreign hands" are using this issue to attempt to destabilize and destroy his government. He believed this before the story proved false.
www.voanews.com...

OTOH, the Washington Post ran a front page story today on the protest and their take was that the violence occurred when protestors and police both overreacted.

This whole thing is ridiculous. It was also discussed here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Allow me to quote and refrase:"Some political figures will use any excuse to raise local hostility against the US and thus gain more political influance.

Not only that ,but why is it OK to burn US flags? A Muslim symbol shouldn't be desecrated but an American (and Israeli) is fine? Such a double-standard in the Muslim world. It's disgusting how US and Israeli flags are burned all the time in demonstrations with no need of even the smallest justification. Everyone afraid the touchy Muslims would start WWIII and you'll see that soon many politicians would start apologising and promising things. Why souldn't the Muslims be weary of burning flags for fear of WWIII? Who do they think will win?

Also as an interrogation this is so mild comperd to what Arab countries do to their prisoners it's laughable. Not to mention how they treat religious minorities. Occasional desecration of the Bible wouldn't even raise an eyebrow."

And seriosly, what contrey will take up the banner of Gihad against the US? not to mention that Gihad can ONLY be declared to reclame muslim land.

[edit on 15-5-2005 by Parmenides]

edit: deleate this

[edit on 15-5-2005 by bodrul]

Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by skychief
you shouldn’t judge a whole group of people by the actions of a few demented iindividuals. Umm, Wait a second, this sounds familiar…..

the united states ( and a lot of its people ) and Israel do this every day
for the actions of a few people thousends of others feel the brunt

I think I could have made my point a little better there, sorry. What I was getting at was how easily we are lead around by those in power and the media. It turns out that this story was false, I believe, but it shows you the power the media has today in shaping world beliefs. It's scary to think that a poorly researched article could cause this much damage.

Sounds like the interrogators were just using their 1st amendment rights in expressing themselves. What's the big deal!
Bush doesn't care what these whackos say or do, and neither do I. Let's hope that this speeds the process of eliminating more of these nuts.

Signed, Disgusted with The All.