Damn, that is gonna be a rough one for this guy explain if and when people start asking him just what he meant by that. Unfortunatley, even his point about Mexican workers doing their jobs, which are usually long hard hours of physical labor in poor conditions and poor pay, will be completely overlooked because of his choice of words in saying it.

I can't judge the man at all and it's not for me to say what his racial views are or how he chooses to classify people but I find it hard to believe that anyone who believes in Equal Rights for People and is against Racial Predjudice would say something like that. In fact, when it 'slips' through like that it kinda works to show the true side of how someone thinks. Of course that's not always the case so it's hard to say unless you know them personally. I know I'd like to hear the explaination he's gonna give for it and the sooner the better, before he has time to possibly conjure up too much spin to even figure out truth from fiction.

Are people objecting to the phrase "black people" or the fact that he implies that black workers traditionally do the menial work in America?

Firstly the term "white people" is perfectly acceptable in todays modern politically correct society. Even when its used in a derrogatory manner by black comedians. This is acceptable even though clearly none of us are white (unless they are albino). I ask then, why isnt it acceptable to refer to people of African origin as "black people"? Whether or not prejudice is infered by using the term is irrelevant as can be seen by the use of "white people". Its merely a descriptive adjective to differentiate from us "white people". Being forced to refer to them with the flowery adjective of "African American" is descriminatory, why dont we force the use of "Anglo American"?

Secondly the inference that black people traditionally do do the menial work in America is historically and currently accurate. Although many do not want to admit it, the black population of America are not the typical doctors and lawyers, they are the street sweepers and cashiers. Just because that is a sad situation does not mean he cant call a spade a spade on it.

It seems perfectly fine to lump Mexicans into the general menial work force, no one questions that BECAUSE ITS TRUE. Yet the touchstone topic of "black's" in America prevents any further rational discussion on the topic.

Proclaim youre "proud to be Black" and your hailed as enlightend and to be respected.

Proclaim youre "proud to be White" and your vilified as a white supremacist.

Thats todays racial equality for you

[edit on 15/5/05 by subz]

subz,
What I'm saying is that he would have been much better off in getting the Pro-Mexican Immigrant idea across by using the word "Americans" or something similar rather than to single out "Blacks". Otherwise it comes across sounding a bit racists and insulting and just stupid IMO. Personally, I didn't know there were actually any jobs that were officially considered to be only for Blacks & Mexicans. Because what we're talking about here hasn't anything to do with the color of your skin but everything to do with your status and position in life. The reason an American, of any color, wouldn't do most of the jobs that an illegal, of any color, would do, has nothing to do with their skin. It's because those jobs break about every regulation there is regarding the employer/employee relationship. The reason both past and present that anyone takes work under those conditions is because they don't have a choice because they're involved in a system that does not account for them.

The fact that people were and are treated as 'better slaves' based upon any characteristic is the kind of thinking that keeps people down. The fact is NOBODY WANTS to do those f**king jobs because they are currently unhealthy, illegal and unethical by our standards. Mexican people who know better see them that way too because once again this isn't about skin color or culture but whether or not you're a slave because the system won't accept you or your accepted by the system and are considered to be just above slave all the way up to Slave Owner.

I hope that makes more sense??? I guess I'll know by the responses I get.

This should be a lesson in politics. You can say whatever you want and so long as you throw in a non PC word, nobody will care what else you said.

He's going to lodge a formal protest that we're doing something to prevent his citizens breaking our laws? We should be rolling on the floor laughing at this idiot.

Mojom you do make sense , theres no doubt that Fox's comments were based on race in their nature. The point I was making is that there is no point sugar coating a lemon, what I mean by that is that his point was right and that he didnt need to make it easier for Americans to swallow.

He refered to the employee situation within America and was not passing judgement on it, just citing it.

He was saying, right or wrong, that Mexicans do the jobs in America that not even the traditonal American menial workers (Blacks) would do. That point is honest, correct and valid. The fact that it highlights a gross injustice to black Americans is not the point here, that is self evident. For example if he said the Jew's were persecuted under the Nazi's does not mean he endorses the actions of Hitler. Does that make any sense?

He was not being a "racist" in his words is what my point is, he was merely stating how Mexicans are doing the crap work that was usually reserved for black Americans. Which no one can say is not the case.

Mythatsabigprobe is 100% correct, his words that were accurate will not be listend to in the slightest because he used the word "black".

Also it is a bit bizarre that he thinks he can protest that Americans are complaining about illegal Mexican immigrants.

And I thought PC was bad in the UK!! You can't say Black without offending someone? Bloody hell....... Whats all this business about African-American or Italian-American? Why do you feel the need to differentiate like that? It's like the Cornish calling themselves Gaelic-Britons, those from Yorkshire calling themselves Viking-Britons or the southerners calling themselves Anglo-Saxon-Britons...It's stupid and causes even more segragation when you label people!

Anyway, onto his actual statement...

I agree with Subz. I don't believe he was being racist, he was merely pointing out the truth. Plus, being a Spanish speaker first, I doubt he properly thought out his statement or forsaw what issues could arrise. Even if you where "fluent" in Spanish yourself, could you be 100% certain, unless you where actually a Mexican or lived there for a while, that some remarks you make might be construed as offensive?

I speak a little german myself and I was surprised to learn that those in the South have a different dialect than those in the North and something you can freely say in one place means a completely different thing elsewhere.

I was, until then, under the impression only English speakers had accents and dialects (I was quite young ), how wrong was I?

It is no surprise that there is a racial prejudice inMr. Fox's staement. Viva La Raza and all that.
What gets me is the reason for him making the speach and one that seems to have been missed so far on this thread.

Fox's remark Friday came a day after Mexico announced it would formally protest recent U.S. immigration reforms, including the decision to extend walls along the border and make it harder for illegal migrants to get driver's licenses.

So the reason for him making this Freudian slip was not for the legal immigrants from Mexico working in the US. He was making the statement as a protest to the US making is harder for illegal border crossings and making it Harder (read illegal) for illegal immigrants to get driver's licenses.
He is actually promoting that his people continue to disregard US borders and laws. I wonder what he would say do, if the influx of illegal immigrants were going into Mexico instead of the US?

If he was actually supported legal immigration, then he would never had stuck his foot in his mouth with his statements.
This is just another example of Mexico's goverment's total disregard of the laws of the US and of the American people.

If I was black, I might be offended by this statement. Not because he talked about black people, but the tone and intonation that blacks do the most menial of jobs.

[edit on 5/15/2005 by djohnsto77]

Thats the problem. People are gonna get offended for this and he'll get criticized. Why? Change black to white and see what happens and who gets offended. See my point? We need to get over this crap.

Do you see how the thread title is? Makes you wonder doesn't it?

[edit on 15-5-2005 by I See You]

Ok,...lets stop all of the drivel in this tread and call a spade a spade! First of all, Fox points out the obvious...and in doing so has indeed shown his cards.

First of all it is the purpose and goal of organizations like LULAC, La Voz Atzlan and others to "retake" the " former Mexican territories" of Mexico. They are doing just that through the flood of illegal immigration which has overrun states just as California, Arizona, Texas and so on!

Second...Foxe's comments should indeed be inspected closely and responded to accordingly.

"Mr. Fox, since your poeple are so willing to work with diginity and do the work that even Black people won't do here in America, then you and Mexico have no problem reimbursing American citizens for all of the State and federal tax dollars we spend eduacting, feeding and giving health care to those same illegal immigrants you speak of."

Mexico and Vincente Fox can't have it both ways! The real bottom line on his comments, and something no-one on this tread has mentioned is this. Why are all those people flooding over to the United States for work? Mexico is the wealthiest Latin American Nation...so it just could'nt be because Vincente Fox and his cronies are elitiist- lying-theiveing- criminals who are doing the same to their own people....or could it!

Finally, even India feels the way Vincente Fox does...just look at all of thsoe Indian engineers taking Hi-tech Jobs away from "White people" and doing it with dignity!

Cafeman

It's not the use of the word "Black" that's his mistake. Where he messed up is in his delivery and wording of the whole idea. The American History of Slave labor by Race isn't one that is currently noted as being a time to be proud of or a time we'd like to see again. So trying to convince everyone that the Illegal activity of Slave Labor should be seen as a good thing isn't too smart IMO. The comparison made isn't one that promotes the idea of Equality between People. It's one that says, "Hey, these new brown slaves work even better than the black ones so you should be allowing their illegal and unregulated oppressive existence in your country since you all benefit from it and they're too ignorant to know better."

Now, while that is pretty much historically accurate as far as what has happened, it's certainly not the kind of arguement that anyone of his political stage should be using. He's selling out his own people while at the same time implying that society still views Blacks as a subculture of slave laborers and also that such slave labor society is actually the desired goal of the people of this country. His statement IMO shows his Elitist, Culturally Oppressive and Outdated perspective of the world and the people who enhabit it. At the same time it shows his lack of consideration toward the legal institutions of other nations and their purpose. Basically, he's your typical out-of-touch Political Leader with too much control and not enough common sense or understanding of his own people.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
If I was black, I might be offended by this statement.

Why? Because black people actually did the most menial jobs in the United States before the Mexican immigrant influx?

He isnt saying black Americans SHOULD do the most menial jobs he is saying that Mexicans ARE doing the jobs black Americans used to do. Black people cant get offended by an independant party acknowledging a historic fact.

I think the point here is that American big business (read U.S government) does not want to limit illegal Mexican immigration because it would be bad for business. They have no loyalty to the majority of Americans, only to their bank balance. They personally do not need social security, they are sitting pretty and have access to private health care. Why should they give a damn if the whole system that protects you plebs comes crashing down? They can have their cheap labour, make money from them, let the institutions such as social security crumble and save even more money by blaming the scape-goat Mexicans.

Its a perfect plan when you look at it.

Im white and im pissed, so what are you really saing?

What I'm really saying is this! Scrap the PC rhetoric about the Fox comment on Blacks and focus on the real issue! That will solve the issue! If their are no illegals then Americans will take some of the same jobs he is speaking of...and do them with dignity! And if we need to raise the pay for Americans in some of these areas....then I'm willing to pay a little more for my lettuce and oranges!

cafeman

Thanx cafeman, That is exactly what I am trying to say.
Everyone seems to have missed why he was even making the speach and everyone is focusing on the wording. Everyone seems to be missing that he was their to protest mesures that the US is starting to take to stem the influx of illegal immigrants.


[edit on 15-5-2005 by kenshiro2012]

I am not an American, nor am I Black - but I am still pissed.



[edit on 15/5/05 by Souljah]

Souljah,
Nevermind, I see you edited your previous statement.


[edit on 15-5-2005 by kenshiro2012]

Why be pissed? It's obviously the media trying to get a reaction from the people for the story and your falling for it. Thats all this is about. Then they print something up about racism in the country for more stories. Load of crap and people get offended.

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Thanx cafeman, That is exactly what I am trying to say.
Everyone seems to have missed why he was even making the speach and everyone is focusing on the wording. Everyone seems to be missing that he was their to protest mesures that the US is starting to take to stem the influx of illegal immigrants.
[edit on 15-5-2005 by kenshiro2012]

Indeed...I wonder if these same people were so concerned when their congressmen voted down the minimum wage for Americans! Close the borders and stop illegal immigration and there would be more than enough money to increase the minimum wage in this country and then we could have Amercian citizens do some of these jobs Fox is taking about....with the 'Same dignity."

Oh and btw...wheres our President on this?