Vincente Fox called on 'racist' remarks

In a speech to a group of Texas business people meeting in Mexico, Mexican President Vincente Fox stated that Mexican migrants do jobs "that not even blacks want to do."

Washington Post

Mexico's Fox toughens talk on U.S. immigration law

Reuters
Friday, May 13, 2005; 11:29 PM

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Mexican President Vicente Fox called recent U.S. measures to stem illegal immigration a step back for bilateral relations on Friday and said Mexican migrants do jobs "that not even blacks want to do."

In comments likely to raise the temperature of the immigration debate, Fox defended the role of undocumented Mexican workers in the United States to a group of Texas business people meeting in Mexico.

"There is no doubt that Mexicans, filled with dignity, willingness and ability to work are doing jobs that not even blacks want to do there in the United States," he said in a speech broadcast in part on local radio and reported on newspaper web sites.

This is breaking news on local television stations, there should be comments from Jesse Jackson and other Black social Leaders over the weekend.

This is posted in another thread....but I will comment again here!

The Fox comment is a true reflection of the purpose and goals of Mexico and Organizations they support, such as LULAC and La Voz Atzlan! They want to retake the former Mexican territories, and are using illegal immigration as a tool to accomplish that goal.

Jesse Jackson, and the Black congressional delegation will be invisible on this issue because of their perceived need for hispanic votes and their perceived bond to the hispanic community. They've been duped...!

Bottom line is this! Mr Fox and Mexico needs to repay the citizens and taxpayers of the U.S for all of the benfits we give the illegals he sends here to do work WITH DIGNITY! If Fox had any dignity he would not take a dime that these people send back to Mexico for their Families...Notice that the Mexican Government putmillions in their own coffers off of ilegal immigrant labor here in the U.S! What joke his comment is!

Cafeman!

Same, Posted the following on another thread
It is no surprise that there is a racial prejudice inMr. Fox's staement. Viva La Raza and all that.
What gets me is the reason for him making the speach and one that seems to have been missed so far on this thread.

quote:
Fox's remark Friday came a day after Mexico announced it would formally protest recent U.S. immigration reforms, including the decision to extend walls along the border and make it harder for illegal migrants to get driver's licenses.


So the reason for him making this Freudian slip was not for the legal immigrants from Mexico working in the US. He was making the statement as a protest to the US making is harder for illegal border crossings and making it Harder (read illegal) for illegal immigrants to get driver's licenses.
He is actually promoting that his people continue to disregard US borders and laws. I wonder what he would say do, if the influx of illegal immigrants were going into Mexico instead of the US?

If he was actually supported legal immigration, then he would never had stuck his foot in his mouth with his statements.
This is just another example of Mexico's goverment's total disregard of the laws of the US and of the American people.
Remember the recent bill that allows hospitals to charge the goverment for the free medical care that the illegals get. The estimated annual bill........ 1 billion dollars. That is on top of the 35 billion lost each year by both local state and federal goverments due to the illegal population

Here we go again. The media jumps in and starts making accusations for a reaction from the people to escalade this into a racial escapade.

Media: Hey lets run with this story it will make a good one then we can run another story on how racism effects american workers.

We fall for this crap and people get offended because they make it out this way. The black american community should not be offended by this knowing that they media is trying to offend them on purpose. I doubt Vvincent Fox remarks were meant to offend you. He was stating the facts.

I see you,
Although I do not like the racial remark by Mr. Fox, I do take issue with why he was even making the speech which was to protest the steps that the US goverment is starting to take trying to stem the influx of illegal immigrants.

Originally posted by I See You
Here we go again. The media jumps in and starts making accusations for a reaction from the people to escalade this into a racial escapade.

Media: Hey lets run with this story it will make a good one then we can run another story on how racism effects american workers.

We fall for this crap and people get offended because they make it out this way. The black american community should not be offended by this knowing that they media is trying to offend them on purpose. I doubt Vvincent Fox remarks were meant to offend you. He was stating the facts.

Personally I could give a rats-butt about the media or the stupidity of the Fox comment. Just close the border to Illegal immigration and i'll be happy. What say you?

I undertstand his speech and he's stating that the illegals are coming and taking the jobs that the black americans normally aquired. If these are indeed true stats then why should people get pissed or offended?

I don't see anything wrong with President Fox's speech. If the truth offends you, well, that's the way it goes.

Traditionally, the "out" groups were the ones who took menial jobs, since many other jobs were denied to them, either because of education or simply racial prejudice. Regardless of reason, up until about 20-30 years ago, the menial jobs in the United States were disproportionally held by African Americans, many of whom couldn't get other jobs.

Things have changed now (in a way forseen by the late Democratic senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan); for a wide variety of reasons, many African Anericans won't work these jobs any more and the ilegales, overwhelmingly Mexican and Central Americans, are doing those same jobs.

The only thing that I am PO'd about is this is just another example of Viecente's support of the illegal immigrants and thier disregards of US laws.
Think of the Billions of dollars that his country is saving by supporting the invasion of illegal immigrants. Then add to that amount the billions that is sent back to Mexico by those illegal immigrants to the families back in Mexico.
It is a win win situation. The "slip" is just demonstrating his arogance of the american people. Too bad our goverment is once again ignoring the influx.
With the Minuteman Project finished, MSNBC showed footage of over 30 illegal immigrants crossing the border in the spot that the minutemen were patrolling.
When the question was asked as to where the border patrol was, the response was that after the minutemen had pulled, out, many of the border patrol personel were re-assigned to different areas and those who were left in the area were told to "not make too many arrests as it will support what the minutemen were saying" This last statement was from a border pstrolman who also stated that they were not to tell the media as their jobs would be on the line. Which is why his(?) voice was disguised and there was no video feed on him(?)

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
I don't see anything wrong with President Fox's speech. If the truth offends you, well, that's the way it goes.

Traditionally, the "out" groups were the ones who took menial jobs, since many other jobs were denied to them, either because of education or simply racial prejudice. Regardless of reason, up until about 20-30 years ago, the menial jobs in the United States were disproportionally held by African Americans, many of whom couldn't get other jobs.

Things have changed now (in a way forseen by the late Democratic senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan); for a wide variety of reasons, many African Anericans won't work these jobs any more and the ilegales, overwhelmingly Mexican and Central Americans, are doing those same jobs.

The superficiality of your comment surprises me...seeing as you have all those ats points I would expect more insight! But I digress.

The role of legal immigration in this country has a long and treasured history, the facts of which I'm sure you are aware. However the nature and effects of "illegal immigration" on this country is something much different.

I wonder what "jobs" you are speaking about when you infere that americans (black-brown or white) won't take them. Are they the jobs at Mc donalds? The summer jobs mowing lawns that teenagers used to do? Just exactly what jobs are you refering to?

cafeman

cafeman says:

The superficiality of your comment surprises me...seeing as you have all those ats points I would expect more insight! But I digress.

Well, I guess even someone who posts a lot isn't necessarily smart or politically correct enough to live up to your expectations. I'll try to do better next time.

The role of legal immigration in this country has a long and treasured history, the facts of which I'm sure you are aware. However the nature and effects of "illegal immigration" on this country is something much different.

I suppose so. The nature of illegal immigration is that its illegal, which creates a criminal class, from the coyotes who smuggle them to the businesses which hire them.

The effects? Well, certainly there're more immoigrants than there'd be if they were legal; the latter would entail quotas, certainly.

So the result of unbridled illegal immigration is that we now have more Spanish-speaking brown guys in the country, working more menial jobs, using up more American goods and services, sending more money out of the country, and doing more stuff. You could argue over whether the value that these people bring in their work is outweighed by their use of our welfare infrastructure, but than's a different conversation.

I wonder what "jobs" you are speaking about when you infere [sic] that americans (black-brown or white) won't take them. Are they the jobs at Mc donalds? The summer jobs mowing lawns that teenagers used to do? Just exactly what jobs are you refering [sic] to?

Yes, cafeman, those all seem to be good examples. That, plus the construction industry here in Arizona, which has somewhat tempered the incredible rise in the cost of housing (but not by much); the landscape business; the hospitality business; and some aspects of the healthcare business, especially the semi-skilled eldercare people who take care of grandma for $6.25 an hour.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
cafeman says:

The superficiality of your comment surprises me...seeing as you have all those ats points I would expect more insight! But I digress.

Well, I guess even someone who posts a lot isn't necessarily smart or politically correct enough to live up to your expectations. I'll try to do better next time.

The role of legal immigration in this country has a long and treasured history, the facts of which I'm sure you are aware. However the nature and effects of "illegal immigration" on this country is something much different.

I suppose so. The nature of illegal immigration is that its illegal, which creates a criminal class, from the coyotes who smuggle them to the businesses which hire them.

The effects? Well, certainly there're more immoigrants than there'd be if they were legal; the latter would entail quotas, certainly.

So the result of unbridled illegal immigration is that we now have more Spanish-speaking brown guys in the country, working more menial jobs, using up more American goods and services, sending more money out of the country, and doing more stuff. You could argue over whether the value that these people bring in their work is outweighed by their use of our welfare infrastructure, but than's a different conversation.

I wonder what "jobs" you are speaking about when you infere [sic] that americans (black-brown or white) won't take them. Are they the jobs at Mc donalds? The summer jobs mowing lawns that teenagers used to do? Just exactly what jobs are you refering [sic] to?

Yes, cafeman, those all seem to be good examples. That, plus the construction industry here in Arizona, which has somewhat tempered the incredible rise in the cost of housing (but not by much); the landscape business; the hospitality business; and some aspects of the healthcare business, especially the semi-skilled eldercare people who take care of grandma for $6.25 an hour.

Off the Street:

Lets begin with your last statement first: Surely you're not telling me that Americans will not take jobs in the areas you have listed above...are you? If so then you are a victim of "groupthink". Americans of all races creeds and Color do indeed labor in all of the above listed categories of work, and having illegal immigrants take these jobs, even takes jobs away from high school kids simply trying to earn a buck for college or a summer sports camp. In any event, I know for a fact that Americans do indeed take these jobs...even in Arizona....yes even Sedona...where I used to live!

Indeed it is obvious that illegal immigration is .....well it's ....Illegal! Hummm!
Thats my point, so why in the world would we even be discussing the appropriateness of Vincente Fox's comment at all? It's basically a straw man argument/discussion...illegal immigrants are here illegally...so who cares if they will do the work of 20 slaves, horses, men or tractors....they are illegal and should be sent back to Mr. Fox....period!

Personally I don't care about being PC......I call it as I see it, and try to base it on facts.....as I am sure you attempt to do the same!



[edit on 16-5-2005 by cafeman]

This could very well be the situation that buys the US the amount of time it needs to push for this new 'Great Wall' bill. Unfortunately, because Fox is not white, this will more than likely not be taken as a racist comment but as some sort of gesture of truth. In the end, the dirty bastards seem to have full immunity from these remarks.
Of course, his remarks are true: blacks are just too damn lazy.

Originally posted by Frosty
This could very well be the situation that buys the US the amount of time it needs to push for this new 'Great Wall' bill. Unfortunately, because Fox is not white, this will more than likely not be taken as a racist comment but as some sort of gesture of truth. In the end, the dirty bastards seem to have full immunity from these remarks.
Of course, his remarks are true: blacks are just too damn lazy.

Hummm...methinks you should have a cone on your head with a white sheet draped over it! ...Do you?

[edit on 16-5-2005 by cafeman]

cafeman says:

Surely you're not telling me that Americans will not take jobs in the areas you have listed above...are you?

You tell me, bud.

Most of the minimum-wage jobs I see, like landscaping, Mickey Dee, maids in hotels, and busboys/dishwashers in restaurants are held by Latinos; the fact that many of them cannot speak a word of English tells me that most of them are recent immigrants, and basic demographics tells me that most of them are ilegales.

Given that, why would an employer deliberately discriminate against American citizens of any flavor in order to hire ilegales who pose some small threat to his business and who must get at least a modicum of extra training in order to interact with an English-speaking clientele?

The only reason I can think of is that these ilegales are willing to work for low wages; and a large proportion of Americans will not do so. I don't know whether Americans won't take the jobs because those jobs are "beneath" them. What I do know, though, is that the ilegales seem to be willing to compete harder for those jobs, either by their work ethic or by their willingness to work for less.

Perhaps it's because many of them do not have an "entitlement" mentality that seems so prevalent among many Americans nowadays -- the mentality that says that they "deserve" ten bucks an hour for doing a job that doesn't contribute ten bucks an hour to the business' bottom line.

I'm not a sociologist with tons of statistics at my fingertips, so, unlike many of the posters on this forum, I simply don't have all the answers.

Americans of all races creeds and Color do indeed labor in all of the above listed categories of work, and having illegal immigrants take these jobs, even takes jobs away from high school kids simply trying to earn a buck for college or a summer sports camp....

Then what is it that the ilegale offers the business owner who will hire them? Why does the immigrant, illegal or otherwise, seem to be competing successfully with American workers? Is there a Secret Plot among all the businesses to "Hispanify" the United States -- or are these folks merely making sound business decisions to hire those whom will give them the best bang for the buck?

In any event, I know for a fact that Americans do indeed take these jobs...even in Arizona....yes even Sedona...where I used to live!

Ah, yes Sedona -- the richest city in Arizona, based on per-capita earnings of over $31,000, and the whitest, with an 92% percentage, is Sedona. ( www.absoluteastronomy.com... ), ( members7.clubphoto.com... ). I visit Sedona on occasion, but I live in Mesa which is, if I may be so bold, a bit more typical of the realities of Arizona.

Thats my point, so why in the world would we even be discussing the appropriateness of Vincente Fox's comment at all? It's basically a straw man argument/discussion...illegal immigrants are here illegally...so who cares if they will do the work of 20 slaves, horses, men or tractors....they are illegal and should be sent back to Mr. Fox....period!

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Opinions are like noses; everyone has one -- except for Michael Jackson, and who cares what he thinks?

...I call it as I see it, and try to base it on facts....

Maybe I am too young and naive to discern your facts; what I have seen from you is several personal comments about me, and quite a bit of anger at ... something.

[edit on 16-5-2005 by Off_The_Street]

If you've ever lived in a poor area of the US, you'd see that africans and mexicans aren't very adept at noticing their common characteristics, the way that western society opresses both of their races.

They actually have become further segregated, very interesting when you think of what they could accomplish by unification.

Fox's comment does expose his own racism, and it was not a wise move to say it that way. But it was meant as a stab at the discrimination that exists in the US. Unfortunately now the media can spin it any way they want, which will most likely be concentrating on the racist remark and not dealing with the actual issue of immigration.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
cafeman says:

Surely you're not telling me that Americans will not take jobs in the areas you have listed above...are you?

You tell me, bud.

Most of the minimum-wage jobs I see, like landscaping, Mickey Dee, maids in hotels, and busboys/dishwashers in restaurants are held by Latinos; the fact that many of them cannot speak a word of English tells me that most of them are recent immigrants, and basic demographics tells me that most of them are ilegales.

Given that, why would an employer deliberately discriminate against American citizens of any flavor in order to hire ilegales who pose some small threat to his business and who must get at least a modicum of extra training in order to interact with an English-speaking clientele?

The only reason I can think of is that these ilegales are willing to work for low wages; and a large proportion of Americans will not do so. I don't know whether Americans won't take the jobs because those jobs are "beneath" them. What I do know, though, is that the ilegales seem to be willing to compete harder for those jobs, either by their work ethic or by their willingness to work for less.

Perhaps it's because many of them do not have an "entitlement" mentality that seems so prevalent among many Americans nowadays -- the mentality that says that they "deserve" ten bucks an hour for doing a job that doesn't contribute ten bucks an hour to the business' bottom line.

I'm not a sociologist with tons of statistics at my fingertips, so, unlike many of the posters on this forum, I simply don't have all the answers.

Americans of all races creeds and Color do indeed labor in all of the above listed categories of work, and having illegal immigrants take these jobs, even takes jobs away from high school kids simply trying to earn a buck for college or a summer sports camp....

Then what is it that the ilegale offers the business owner who will hire them? Why does the immigrant, illegal or otherwise, seem to be competing successfully with American workers? Is there a Secret Plot among all the businesses to "Hispanify" the United States -- or are these folks merely making sound business decisions to hire those whom will give them the best bang for the buck?

In any event, I know for a fact that Americans do indeed take these jobs...even in Arizona....yes even Sedona...where I used to live!

Ah, yes Sedona -- the richest city in Arizona, based on per-capita earnings of over $31,000, and the whitest, with an 92% percentage, is Sedona. ( www.absoluteastronomy.com... ), ( members7.clubphoto.com... ). I visit Sedona on occasion, but I live in Mesa which is, if I may be so bold, a bit more typical of the realities of Arizona.

Thats my point, so why in the world would we even be discussing the appropriateness of Vincente Fox's comment at all? It's basically a straw man argument/discussion...illegal immigrants are here illegally...so who cares if they will do the work of 20 slaves, horses, men or tractors....they are illegal and should be sent back to Mr. Fox....period!

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Opinions are like noses; everyone has one -- except for Michael Jackson, and who cares what he thinks?

...I call it as I see it, and try to base it on facts....

Maybe I am too young and naive to discern your facts; what I have seen from you is several personal comments about me, and quite a bit of anger at ... something.

[edit on 16-5-2005 by Off_The_Street]

Hummm, all I have done is to have a simple discussion with you! I have not called you any names nor am I angry!

However~ you assume too much....so what about sedona....there are still a ton of hispanic and whites who live there and most of the folks there work at the jobs which are available....no matter white hispanic or black! And yes there are blacks in sedona.....

As far as where you live....Mesa AZ, you certainly have a firsthand look at the results of illegals immigration....in fact did'nt prop 200 just pass in Arizona?

I have lived and worked in 3 border States....California, Arizona, and Now Texas...and I can tell you for a fact that illegal immigrants displace willing American worker...and that is true at all levels...from the Micky dees workers, to the hi tech worker which has lost their job to a person with an HB-1 VISA!

The fact that some employers violate US laws and hire illegal immigrants to replace American workers is tragic......but as you say...its capitalism!

For my money I'll pay a little more for my next home (constructiion) a little more for my next computer software program (high tech) and even a little more for my next burger (mickey dees) if it will employee American citizens and legal immigrants! Besides I already pay more for gas anyway! I'm gonna pay one way or another...either in higher prices because of the higher wage to employ American citizens...or in taxes for the Social benefits for unemployed Americans and to fund illegal immigrants. Personally I perfer the former!

Oh and btw...just because everyone has a nose, does not mean they are all able to sniff out the facts.....for that you may want to start here! www.cis.org



[edit on 16-5-2005 by cafeman]

cafeman says:

For my money I'll pay a little more for my next home (constructiion) a little more for my next computer software program (high tech) and even a little more for my next burger (mickey dees) if it will employee American citizens and legal immigrants!

But it won't, and we both know that, and here is why:

The United States is competing for its economic life with other countries who have lower standards of living but similar skills. A Mumbai programmer is just as smart and savvy as a Minneapolis one, and will work for a lot less. A hotel maid from Tamaulipas works just as hard as someone from Topeka and will do so for less, as well. Therefore, they take away our jobs, because they offer a better deal for consumers.

Today, American companies and employers have a choice of two things: they can cut their costs drastically, or go out of business. Factories can cut their production costs by moving their operations overseas. "Working smarter" or robotic factories used to be a valid strategy, but the Asians and everyone else also work smarter and have robotic factories.

Local businesses have the same option: they can cut their employee costs or go out of business, whipped by another company which has successfully cut their costs. Most Americans are not willing to pay more for domestic manufacturers or unionized workers; if you don't believe me, I suggest you take a trip to the largest and most successful employer in the United States and walk through one of their stores.

You know, the one with all the smiley faces?

I'm gonna pay one way or another...either in higher prices because of the higher wage to employ American citizens...or in taxes for the Social benefits for unemployed Americans and to fund illegal immigrants. Personally I perfer the former!

Your preferences, like mine, are irrelevant.

My personal ideal would be to have the borders open to anyone who is willing to come and work, and not have any government welfare and babysitting at all. From an economic warfare point of view (and don't think we're not engaged in economic warfare -- which we're losing!), this minimizing of government support and welfare is what other countries are doing and they're beating the pants off us.

But it's not going to happen, and we both know that, too. We do have a "safety net" consisting of minimum wage, OSHA, rampant corporate and individual welfare, etcetera; the very things which make us enjoy our good life while losing it at the same time.

So businesses will do their best to cut their costs because they want to survive.

Welcome to the 21st century, cafeman.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
cafeman says:

For my money I'll pay a little more for my next home (constructiion) a little more for my next computer software program (high tech) and even a little more for my next burger (mickey dees) if it will employee American citizens and legal immigrants!

But it won't, and we both know that, and here is why:

The United States is competing for its economic life with other countries who have lower standards of living but similar skills. A Mumbai programmer is just as smart and savvy as a Minneapolis one, and will work for a lot less. A hotel maid from Tamaulipas works just as hard as someone from Topeka and will do so for less, as well. Therefore, they take away our jobs, because they offer a better deal for consumers.

Today, American companies and employers have a choice of two things: they can cut their costs drastically, or go out of business. Factories can cut their production costs by moving their operations overseas. "Working smarter" or robotic factories used to be a valid strategy, but the Asians and everyone else also work smarter and have robotic factories.

Local businesses have the same option: they can cut their employee costs or go out of business, whipped by another company which has successfully cut their costs. Most Americans are not willing to pay more for domestic manufacturers or unionized workers; if you don't believe me, I suggest you take a trip to the largest and most successful employer in the United States and walk through one of their stores.

You know, the one with all the smiley faces?

I'm gonna pay one way or another...either in higher prices because of the higher wage to employ American citizens...or in taxes for the Social benefits for unemployed Americans and to fund illegal immigrants. Personally I perfer the former!

Your preferences, like mine, are irrelevant.

My personal ideal would be to have the borders open to anyone who is willing to come and work, and not have any government welfare and babysitting at all. From an economic warfare point of view (and don't think we're not engaged in economic warfare -- which we're losing!), this minimizing of government support and welfare is what other countries are doing and they're beating the pants off us.

But it's not going to happen, and we both know that, too. We do have a "safety net" consisting of minimum wage, OSHA, rampant corporate and individual welfare, etcetera; the very things which make us enjoy our good life while losing it at the same time.

So businesses will do their best to cut their costs because they want to survive.

Welcome to the 21st century, cafeman.

Off the Street:
Kudos...and points well made! Lol! Indeed I'm in agreement with most of the points you make with regards to the Global economy. That being the case...should'nt we be demanding reimbursement cost of illegal immigration from the governments which those immigrants come from? Perhaps the U.S Nationalization of PEMEX OIL for a start!

cafeman says:

Kudos...and points well made! Lol!

Thank you.

...should'nt we be demanding reimbursement cost of illegal immigration from the governments which those immigrants come from? Perhaps the U.S Nationalization of PEMEX OIL for a start!

We should, sure, but that'd be like getting blood from a turnip. If another country had enough money to reimburse us for what their folks do, they'd probably have enough money and a strong enough economy to keep their folks there in the first place LOL!

But I sure would like for us to have control of Petroleos Mexicanos, that's for sure!

To be honest, I don't see any way around the conundrum of immigrants. We're not going to keep them out, simply brecause our businesses (especically here in Arizona) rely on them to keep consumer prices down.

And raising the minimum wage to attract more Americans won't work, either; it's just screw us out of whatever inernational market share we have already.

Now I don't have any particular cultural axe to grind one way or another. My wife and I are both of northern European ancestry (I German, she Swedish) and we are both native English speakers; we even belong to one of those Northern European/Viking/Aryan religious cults: the Lutherans.

Nonetheless, we've seen the writing on the wall. When I moved out here in 1978, I assumed everyone was bilingual (they weren't, of course), so I took a bunch of Spanish courses. Now we're both bilingual and spend most of our vacation time in Mexico and Central America, keeping up on our language and cultural capabilities. We are becoming a bilingual/bicultural country. We can't put the genie back in the bottle or the toothpaste back in the tube. Es sin setido a decir que "habrá cambios grandes después de la revolución"; ¡la revolución está ya aquí!