MP7 vs. P90 Compitition: No Point

Okay, I've done some research, and, this is sad:


The PDW/MP7
Newest Innovation
Cal. 4.6mm x 30





It goes without saying that the engineers at HK are not content to rest on their laurels. There is much under development whose information will only be released to the public perhaps years from now. Latest to become from HK, and first seen here in detail is the "PDW." PDW stands for 'Personal Defense Weapon.' This unfortunately is going to be a bit confusing for the student of HK, because this is the third firearm by HK to have 'PDW''as either all or part of its name. The others are: MP5K-PDW, and the prototype G11 PDW.
What appears upon first look to be a weapon design to compete with the FN series P90 in 5.7mm x 28, the PDW promises to be a huge improvement on that system. Though no one could fault the engineers at Fabrique Nationale for their vision, the P90 has one reported serious flaw. If you drop a partially loaded magazine, or the gun with a partially loaded magazine, rounds will go flying, get disoriented in the magazine and seriously jam the mechanism.

The heavy use of polymer again shows the design direction that the HK engineers are taking. With a conventional 20 round magazine in the pistol grip or an optional 40 round magazine that extends below the gun, one of the most amazing aspects of the gun is its size, or lack thereof. It is only slightly larger than a SOCOM pistol!

Sporting a retractable shoulder stock and a very small heads up display sight reminiscent of the Eotech/Bushnell Holosight, the PDW also has a T-shaped cocking handle somewhat like the M16 series.



Select fire, with safe, semi and full auto modes of fire, and production models sporting the now familiar red and white bullet in box pictograms, the stated cyclic rate on full automatic is 950 rpm. The PDW has a foldable forward vertical grip. The magazine is conventional staggered box, and the magazine release behind the trigger guard looks almost interchangeable with the USP series handguns.

Several features of the G36 series are present in the PDW as you can see in the photos below. Extensive use of polymer, the rotating bolt and gas system all reflect the G36 series.

The PDW is a quintessential reminder of the lead that HK continues to take in small arms design.

Update: 11/2001: The PDW has been named MP7 now that it is in production. Below is the production version. Notice the heavier buttstock, slightly changed markings, locking system on foregrip, flash hider and open sight option.



PDW Technical Specifications
Overall Length: 13.38 in./ 340mm (stock closed) 21.19 in./ 541mm (stock open)
Barrel Length: 7.09 in. 180mm
Width: 1.89 in. 48mm
Height: 6.77 in. 172mm
Unloaded wt. (20 rnd. mag): 2.64 lb. 1.20 kg
Loaded with 20 rounds: 2.86 lb. 1.30 kg
Loaded with 40 rounds: 3.39 lb. 1.54 kg



4.6 x 30 Ammunition Technical Specifications

Cartridge Length: 1.5 in. 38mm
Projectile weight: 24.7 grains 1.6 g
Case length: 1.18 in. 30mm
Ballistics/Velocity: 2379 fps 725 m/sec
Ballistics/Muzzle Energy: 312 ft/lb 420 joule
Projectile composition: Copper plated solid steel bullet




PDW v. FN P90 HEAD TO HEAD COMPARISON

Test:
PDW
P90

Gelatine block at 50 m.* 280mm 230mm
Energy Transfer thru armor**: 220 joule 180 joule
Titanium/Kevlar Penetration* >200m 140m
Energy xfer thru armor 100m** 115 joule 65 joule
* 20 % Gelatine block 300mm long ** 1.6mm Titanium + 20 layers of Kevlar



PDW v. FN P90 Ammunition
PDW (4.6 x 30) P90 (5.7 x 28)
Projectile weight: 24.7 grains 31 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 2,378 f/sec 2,346 f/sec
Muzzle Energy: 310 f/lb
Armor Penetration 1.6mm Titanium/20 layers Kevlar > 200 m 150 m
Max. Effective Range: > 200 m 200 m




PDW featured on the cover of the 1/1/00 issue of Deutsches Waffen Journal




Engineers in Oberndorf with CAD model of PDW on computer screen.




Left side of prototype model PDW, serial number 164-002. The production models are reportedly identified this way, but the white and red circular dots for the fire selector have been replaced with the familiar bullet pictograms. Note the USP style mag. release.

Illuminated reticle sight.

Cocking handle of the PDW retracted. Directly below is retracted buttstock.





Bolt assembly. PDW bolt is strikingly similar to the G36 bolt.

[edit on 14-5-2005 by SEAL Trident]

Both suck. The caliber is too small. I understand that it should be small weapon but 4.6 or 5.7 caliber is laughable. Look at the current problems with 5.56x45 in m-4 rifles.
And I cannot see the images.

I love the concept behind the G11 model. Brilliant and perfect, for what it is intended for cannot beat it. There is no competition, ask some one who has handled both, the competition is mostly friendly all healthy, as one can get considering the topic.



Rival for the P90, thats easy, give me a UMP .45 and I'll show you patterns.
Not to stray too far off topic, but what about a PDW that competes with the G18, right right no comparison, same with FN and HK.

Sorry, go to www.hkpro.com

Then go to the "World of Hk" on the top left side, and "PDW" or "MP7"

And I'm curious, their good against body armor, but what about flesh? Anybody?

[edit on 14-5-2005 by SEAL Trident]

The PDW has 420 joules of power that pretty powerfull for a little gun like that. It depends what type of ammo u use for it HJP ( Hollow poing ) for ripping flesh. FJP (Fullmetal jacket for armor penetration.

Originally posted by Kriskaos
The PDW has 420 joules of power that pretty powerfull for a little gun like that. It depends what type of ammo u use for it HJP ( Hollow poing ) for ripping flesh. FJP (Fullmetal jacket for armor penetration.

Good, so they have different types of rounds. Thank You.

here:

www.hkpro.com...

Hollow points can't be used in war because of the Geneva Convention, so if you wan't to kill people use calibers larger than .17s and .22s.

Actually, that would be the Hague convention, and they can be used if it's a result of the manufacturing process, not made specifically to expand. This is why we can get away with the new 77 grain 5.56 ammo, which is hollow point. All such international treaties are vague enough to allow you to basically do what you want, just have to slightly modify the manner in which you do it.

does any one know where i came buy a MP7???

well aren't both of them designed for tank crews and pilots. not really what you would expect special force to use for front line combat. sides every one knows the only thing p90s are good for is taking out jaffa warriors. lol

reply to post by longbow


Wow, okay... The point of a PDW and other military SMG's is secondarily as a close-quarters weapon or personal sidearm replacement, and primarily for use of NON-COMBAT personel, such as a logistics or support persons' last line of defense. Considering that both the 4.6 and the 5.7 can defeat kevlar, and have decent penetration into flesh with minimal overpenetration, and both weapons have a mid- to high-range of 50-200 meters, this makes these weapons highly effective as secondaries. Also, the 5.56 does not have "problems". It is a great round up to 500 meters. People seem to misunderstand... They're not hunting game of 1000 pounds or more, so they don't exactly need a friggin' 30-06. They need something that's light weight and accurate, so they can carry plenty of ammo.

One thing that I have never been able to get a grip on, is the tendency to lean towards a smaller caliber, higher velocity, rounds...

although good on paper and in a controlled enviroment.. I have found that for extreme situations, (IE combat) in the field I prefer a larger caliber..

Now I am not putting down the m-16 and its derivitives, for the weapon has saved my life several times,

but most of the time I was truly wishing for a 30 cal. instead of a 22 on steroids.. especially in the jungle. damn branches a twigs would skew the round before it ever reach the target... very disconcerting when thier rounds were buzzing very close to me.... LOL

Originally posted by longbow
Both suck. The caliber is too small. I understand that it should be small weapon but 4.6 or 5.7 caliber is laughable. Look at the current problems with 5.56x45 in m-4 rifles.
And I cannot see the images.

I'd rather have a 7.62 over those anyday with a ACOG mounted on it.