Embryonic Stem Cells--- are we playing God?

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posted on May, 17 2005 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by WissNX01
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Greek and Latin have everything to do with it. ALot of original works were in Greek and Latin. The bible was originally a work with both Latin and Greek. Just because the people spoke Aramaic, doesnt mean that the bible was written in it. Much of the New Testament was written over a period of hundreds of years, where, Greek and Latin were used.

Oh and has anyone missed the backsteps of seraph5 saying now he is in FAVOR of stem cell research? At the beginning of the thread, this character was saying its murder and its going to lead to 2 year olds being slaughtered for thier stem cells. Now hes all for it.

Now we are debating what the bible says. I quoted the Bible, and I was told I was wrong, as well as other people being told they were wrong because of Translation. Amazing, cause Im sure most of us are getting it from the KJV, where the translation is identical. Hey, Christians, I will pray for you. I will be praying that you get a clue and step into the 21st century.




Excuse me, if you had read the entire thread, and the other thread I posted up that is very simialr to this, then you would see that I HAVE ALWAYS SAID I BACK UP STEM CELL RESEAERCH!!! My beef is with ESCs, not the OTHER forms of stem cells. So, read before you write, thank you.

[edit on 17-5-2005 by seraph5]

[edit on 17-5-2005 by seraph5]




posted on May, 17 2005 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by hardbodyactiv

Originally posted by WissNX01
I know I would want my kids to have whatever technology was available to let them live longer. Anyone that says they would let their kids die is either lying, or insane, and I would prefer the liars to the nutjobs.


Forget about advancements in technology; when you're talking about society being held back by parents that truly are either lying, insane or nutjobs; these are the crazies that deny their children the most basic of medical attention, so what chance would their have with this technology in existence.

Check this thread out: Indiana Couple Convicted in Prayer Death of Newborn

So there you have it...and what 'Faith' are these parents practicing?

Even worse, read the thread and check how many loonies here on ATS actually agreed with the parents....wtf?


Peace Out





You are taking the extreme case here and using it to back up your opinion. Not everyone is like that, I am not like, my parents are not like that, actually, some to think of it, I DON"T KONW ANYONE LIKE THAT. There will always be fanatics in any area, and I believe that is wrong. You can take anything too far.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall




Excuse me! Are you serious? The Jewish Holy Scriptures were not originally in Greek or Latin. lol



No, we're not all getting it from the KJV. Listen, there are a lot of threads on this board where you can start catching up. This thread isn't one of them.





Sorry to tell you, but yes they were written in Greek and Latin.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by WissNX01
These very people against stem cell research are afraid of progress. They are afraid that advances in technology will eliminate thier God, which I dont see why religion cannot integrate modern ideas. I think that humans are able to create things with science, which makes them like God. Did God not create man in His image? We may not be able to perform miracles like Jesus, but we are not eliminating them.



I am definately NOT afraid of progress. I am a student going into medicine. And you know what, I might even go into research; STEM CELL RESEARCH! However, no one is going to get me to use ESCs. That is where I draw the line. And I hate to tell you, but advances in technology is eliminating God and religion if you haven't noticed. But, there is nothing I could ever do about that, so I leave that one alone, I leave that up to the idividual.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by seraph5

Originally posted by WissNX01
seraph5, when in a few years down the road, you become infected with Alzhiemers, dont take the stem cell treatment that will save you. Stem cell research is going to cure lots of thing, and create new therapies for things we didnt think was treatable.

There is no killing of babies involved. An infinate amount of stem cells can be had from fertility clinics around the globe. Dozens, sometimes hundreds of stem cells are created for couples to concieve. Often times, there are lots of left over stem cells, things that you define as a viable life. The left over ones are thrown into the garbage and incinerated. They are being destroyed anyway, and being wasted. Get your facts straight before you condemn a science.

And adult stem cells do not have the properties of embryonic ones. Adult stem cells are much more difficult to manipulate than the embryonic ones. Proof is with the rats they have attempted to use adult stem cells on. Unfortunatly, the success rate for adult stem cells requires a viable alternative.

seraph5, are you one of these activists that have a fetus in a jar for your rallies?



Haha. No. And just to clear things up, I know about stem cells. I know that adult stem cells are much harder to isolate and then grow. Takes more money....... And they are still trying to come up with a cost effectiv way of doing it.


This may sound strange to you, but I am religious. You know, believe in God? I do not like any of the things you previously mentioned, however, the use of babies from fertility clinics, well, that is a better alternative than what they want to do.

I believe that a child is a child upon conception. I do not think that just because the "embryo" is only a few cells old that it is not a baby. We all start from something.

Oh ya, and as for adult stem cells not having the properties of ESCs, well, there are stem cells all over the body as they are finding out. However, ESCs just seem more attractive because yes, they have been known to differentiate into many additional types of cells. But, I am sure sciecne can come up with a viable way of using adult stem cells as an alternative.

Did I mention that I do want to go into ADULT stem cell research?











This is for Wiss, I think that this was the forth or fifth entry for this thread. And I was responding to a comment you made.

[edit on 17-5-2005 by seraph5]



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by seraph5

Originally posted by MCory1

Originally posted by seraph5
I believe it is killing, whether or not the babies are dead to begin with, and I don't see how I could look myself in the eyes after i grew embryos, took out cells, threw the rest away.


First of all, how can you kill something that's already dead? Second of all, the main point a lot of us are trying to make is that you aren't growing the embryos. They've already been grown, and for whatever reason they were killed.


Originally posted by stumason
Putting it into perspective, an aborted/disused foetus from fertilisation techniques (of which there are many!) are dead but still have uses. Same as a dead person we use for organ transplant. It is the same thing!


Exactly!


If using already-dead fetuses is evil, then why not go against the organ donor program? Those people were once alive as well; wouldn't that be somewhat of a double standard? Shouldn't all of humanity be valued to the same degree? Hell, for that matter, shouldn't all life be valued to such a high degree? Shouldn't we stop the slaughter of cows and such for food? Shouldn't we stop the endless harvesting of corn and lettuce? I mean, why just stop with humans?

I know if my father ever gets to where he doesn't remember who I am and can't feed himself, then I'd really like to think society as a whole hasn't found a cure because there is no cure to be found. Not because it didn't want to take a couple of cells that were already going into the trash can and take a close look at them.



No, I do not think it is the same thing. The organ donor has given himself to science by choice to help others. They usually have lived a full life, and these "babies" haven't. The aborted fetuses or grown embryos did not have this choice to have their bodies used.

I have NOTHING against other methods of isolating stem cells. THERE ARE OTHER WAYS, and I am very excited of all the plans they have for stem cells. I am not the only one who thinks this way, and I have noticed that the line is split down the middle, between religious and noreligious peoples.

I will never support ESC research. Sorry. I don't believe it is right.
But I guess this is a decision everyone has to make for themselves. I think more people are for ESCs anyways, so I am fighting a losing battle.

Miscarried babies, as horrible as that sounds, would be an acceptable choice for me. These are babies that were aborted NATURALLY, nothing artificial about it. Body just rejects it so by choice of the mother, she could give this body to science. They just need a few starter lines because the ESCs grow so darn fast.





Oh ya, and here's another one for you too.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 07:20 PM
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Your a hypocrite, only now are you saying you GOING into stem cell research.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by seraph5

Originally posted by Valhall




Excuse me! Are you serious? The Jewish Holy Scriptures were not originally in Greek or Latin. lol



No, we're not all getting it from the KJV. Listen, there are a lot of threads on this board where you can start catching up. This thread isn't one of them.





Sorry to tell you, but yes they were written in Greek and Latin.


God-bless there's some kind of grey-matter sucking infection going on here.

Oh well - the lot of you can waller around in your bliss


*valhall shakes the ignorance dust of her shoes as she leaves the thread*



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall
God-bless there's some kind of grey-matter sucking infection going on here.

Oh well - the lot of you can waller around in your bliss


*valhall shakes the ignorance dust of her shoes as she leaves the thread*


Still arguing the points that you can huh? Sad.

Semantics must be your game. Which is exactly why I said the earliest known records of the NT are in Greek...By the way you still have'nt tried to dispute that.

Must be easy to ignore people when you are wrong, and just move on to those who you can play semantics with.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 07:54 PM
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phoenix,

Word of advice. When you're drooling drivel that is the equivalent of bottom-dwelling scum in the great iq pool...DON'T PUSH IT.

I've got three veritable mental wonder-nuts here that think the Hebrew Holy Scripture was originally written in Latin and Greek. HINT: that's not a matter of semantics, that's a matter of you guys flapping your lips on something you are absolutely devoid of knowledge on.

I've given every one of you an out - take it. Now, I leave you to continue your masquerade amonst yourself. it's all okie-dokie with me



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 07:54 PM
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Where have I been?

Ok first of all this is not a medical conspiracy discussion; it's a religious discussion from what I can see.

Secondly, it has devolved into bickering.

Third, this thread is full of one-line posts, excessive quoting, all caps posts and now personal attacks.

I'm issuing a warning to WissNX01 and seraph5 for your collective behavior in this thread (it's either that or over a dozen one-line and excess quote warns).

Both of you are relatively new members so I suggest you brush up on the site's Terms And Conditions

And lastly, this topic has been discussed numerous times in the past.
Including an Official ATS Debate: Round 1. PurdueNuc V StrangeLands: Stem Cells

SOCIAL: Stem-Cell Research
Stem Cell Research - your opinions
POLITICS: Stem Cell Clone Ban Coming?
Stem cells
POLITICS: Polarization Prevents US Cloning Ban
Stem cell research
SCI/TECH: World's First Stem Cell Bank Opens

Thread closed.
.





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