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Embryonic Stem Cells--- are we playing God?

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posted on May, 17 2005 @ 03:18 AM
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I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY SOMETHING, WHICH I HAVE PROBABLY DONE ABOUT 10 TIMES ALREADY. I AM FOR STEM CELL RESEARCH. I AM FOR THE USE OF OTHER SOURCES OF STEM CELLS THAT ARE NOT FROM HUMAN EMBRYOS. IF THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO REACH OUR GOAL, ONE THAT IS NOT SO CONTROVERSIAL, WHY NOT AT LEAST TRY THIS WAY FIRST?




posted on May, 17 2005 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by seraph5
And please, all of you who are comparing the consumption of animals, fruits, and vegetables to the "Thou shalt not kill", give me a break.


Give me a break. Your bible clearly says thou shalt not kill....NOT THOU SHALT NOT MURDER.

Murder is the act of killing a human. Killing is the act of ending life.

Perhaps it is human's innate "homo-centric" world view that will not allow you to recognize the difference between the two words, which do have seperate meanings. You like the good book, then follow it, do not make your own intrepretations.

As for all you people who think blastocytes have souls.....Think of it this way......They were souls that were lucky enough to NOT be born into original sin, thereby making them automatically elligible for entrance to heaven...That should be a good thing right?



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Give me a break. Your bible clearly says thou shalt not kill....NOT THOU SHALT NOT MURDER.



Actually, that's not right. The JPS states the proper translation is "Thou shalt not murder."



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Give me a break. Your bible clearly says thou shalt not kill....NOT THOU SHALT NOT MURDER.

Actually, that's not right. The JPS states the proper translation is "Thou shalt not murder."


I am not arguing as to what has been translated properly or not. The fact of the matter remains MOST bibles in English clearly say "Thou shalt not kill", which is true. Poepple like quoting the bible soo much let's quote it.

13Thou shalt not kill

www.biblegateway.com...:%2013;&version=9;

[edit on 17-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 12:18 PM
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"Nothing is outside of gods creation so if it exits there must be a higher reason for it."I think this is where we are starting to learn that with great power comes great responsibility.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Give me a break. Your bible clearly says thou shalt not kill....NOT THOU SHALT NOT MURDER.

Actually, that's not right. The JPS states the proper translation is "Thou shalt not murder."


I am not arguing as to what has been translated properly or not. The fact of the matter remains MOST bibles in English clearly say "Thou shalt not kill", which is true. Poepple like quoting the bible soo much let's quote it.

13Thou shalt not kill

www.biblegateway.com...:%2013;&version=9;

[edit on 17-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]


Well, good for you. I am. I don't particularly care how many times a mistake gets propagated, I care what the original intent was.

So - now we've shared.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall

Well, good for you. I am. I don't particularly care how many times a mistake gets propagated, I care what the original intent was.


Then perhaps you should learn Greek, and latin like I did.

(saving hebrew for later)

I know it is semantical, but is'nt that what quoting, an intreprative book is all about?



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Then perhaps you should learn Greek, and latin like I did.

(saving hebrew for later)


Okay - what's Greek and Latin got to do with Aramaic? And don't worry, I've got all the reference books I need.




I know it is semantical, but is'nt that what quoting, an intreprative book is all about?


Semantics and true intent become very important when they are brought to the discussion as a weapon with which you begin to beat people about the head and neck. You brought this up...I didn't. And your statement was wrong. I think that was the only thing I was trying to point out...your statement was wrong.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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It's so easy to take these kind of medical sciences on a personal level and I think that it is because are we really capable of posessing this knowledge without abusing it,this is where we are being chalanged.And I hope for our benefit we do not or possibly we will stay on this low vibration the earth is at and never be able to know our true selves.I really hope people see that this goes we beyond just being human.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall
Okay - what's Greek and Latin got to do with Aramaic? And don't worry, I've got all the reference books I need.

I am not worried, perhaps you need some more reference books though


Well to start the oldest fragments we have of the new testament are in Greek.
www.abu.nb.ca...



Do we have any reason to say the New Testament documents were written in Hebrew? A simple answer to this statement is “no.” All of the current archeological evidence, MSS (manuscript) data, and social background of the New Testament era prove otherwise. As a matter of fact, prior to the New Testament era of Christ and the Apostles, there was already a massive undertaking to Hellenize the Jewish culture due to Roman influence. This would already have existed at the time of Christ and the Apostles; a time that Paul calls, “fullness of the time” (Galatians 4:4). This “fullness” demonstrates historically that God’s plan to bring forth the Christ (a Greek term meaning the “anointed” of God) was positioned in the midst of a Hellenized Jewish Palestinian setting which sat within the boundaries of a Roman culture which was predominately Greek speaking.

www.apuritansmind.com...


And your statement was wrong. I think that was the only thing I was trying to point out...your statement was wrong.


How was my statement wrong? Are we not speaking english? That being the case which Bible would I most likely be quoting from? An English version yeah ? Sorry but almost all english versions do say; thou shalt not kill, thereby making my statement 100% correct....sorry


[edit on 17-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

Then perhaps you should learn Greek, and latin like I did.

(saving hebrew for later)


Okay - what's Greek and Latin got to do with Aramaic? And don't worry, I've got all the reference books I need.




Greek and Latin have everything to do with it. ALot of original works were in Greek and Latin. The bible was originally a work with both Latin and Greek. Just because the people spoke Aramaic, doesnt mean that the bible was written in it. Much of the New Testament was written over a period of hundreds of years, where, Greek and Latin were used.

Oh and has anyone missed the backsteps of seraph5 saying now he is in FAVOR of stem cell research? At the beginning of the thread, this character was saying its murder and its going to lead to 2 year olds being slaughtered for thier stem cells. Now hes all for it.

Now we are debating what the bible says. I quoted the Bible, and I was told I was wrong, as well as other people being told they were wrong because of Translation. Amazing, cause Im sure most of us are getting it from the KJV, where the translation is identical. Hey, Christians, I will pray for you. I will be praying that you get a clue and step into the 21st century.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 02:09 PM
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As far as I can see, if stem cell research is going to benefit those who have debilitating diseases, ease pain, fix genetic problems, and benefit those who are otherwise doomed to a painful existance then so be it. I don't believe that anyone is going to start making babies for the shear point of destroying them. There are plenty of fertility clinics that throw away unused stem cells everyday, as well as the entire abortion issue.

I just have a question for those.........If it were YOUR child and a stem cell transplant could save them would you be inclined to look your child in the face and reject the transplant???? And shame on you if you say yes you would!!



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 02:17 PM
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I know I would want my kids to have whatever technology was available to let them live longer. Anyone that says they would let thier kids die is either lying, or insane, and I would prefer the liars to the nutjobs.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by WissNX01
I know I would want my kids to have whatever technology was available to let them live longer. Anyone that says they would let their kids die is either lying, or insane, and I would prefer the liars to the nutjobs.


Forget about advancements in technology; when you're talking about society being held back by parents that truly are either lying, insane or nutjobs; these are the crazies that deny their children the most basic of medical attention, so what chance would their have with this technology in existence.

Check this thread out: Indiana Couple Convicted in Prayer Death of Newborn

So there you have it...and what 'Faith' are these parents practicing?

Even worse, read the thread and check how many loonies here on ATS actually agreed with the parents....wtf?


Peace Out



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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True, there are those fringe Christians that think that prayer is the only answer, and I briefly attended those churches. Instead of taking thier kids to see a doctor, when they were clearly very ill, they heald 'all night prayers'. Honstly, Ill pray about somehting wrong with me or one of my kids, but Ill be the first one seeing my Indian doctor who I cant understand.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by WissNX01


Greek and Latin have everything to do with it. ALot of original works were in Greek and Latin. The bible was originally a work with both Latin and Greek. Just because the people spoke Aramaic, doesnt mean that the bible was written in it. Much of the New Testament was written over a period of hundreds of years, where, Greek and Latin were used.


Excuse me! Are you serious? The Jewish Holy Scriptures were not originally in Greek or Latin. lol



Now we are debating what the bible says. I quoted the Bible, and I was told I was wrong, as well as other people being told they were wrong because of Translation. Amazing, cause Im sure most of us are getting it from the KJV, where the translation is identical.


No, we're not all getting it from the KJV. Listen, there are a lot of threads on this board where you can start catching up. This thread isn't one of them.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall
No, we're not all getting it from the KJV. Listen, there are a lot of threads on this board where you can start catching up. This thread isn't one of them.


Nice way to avoid my reply

Can't dispute my claims so move on to some that you can?


[edit on 17-5-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 03:33 PM
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Did anyone besides you meantion the Jewish Scriptures?

Advances in Stem Cell research isnt going to be uninvented. Debating me and twisting facts isnt going to change this. I am done with this tread.

[edit on 05/5/17 by WissNX01]



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by WissNX01
Did anyone besides you meantion the Jewish Scriptures?


Great point.


I think vahlhall just wants to argue with anyone, reguardless of the facts, or what people actually say.

Reguardless none of this has anything to do with Stem cells.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 03:51 PM
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These very people against stem cell research are afraid of progress. They are afraid that advances in technology will eliminate thier God, which I dont see why religion cannot integrate modern ideas. I think that humans are able to create things with science, which makes them like God. Did God not create man in His image? We may not be able to perform miracles like Jesus, but we are not eliminating them.



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