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Embryonic Stem Cells--- are we playing God?

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posted on May, 15 2005 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by WissNX01

There is no killing of babies involved.
And adult stem cells do not have the properties of embryonic ones. Adult stem cells are much more difficult to manipulate than the embryonic ones. Proof is with the rats they have attempted to use adult stem cells on. Unfortunatly, the success rate for adult stem cells requires a viable alternative.




If I remember right seraph5 is a 14 year old. Life begins at conception a life is ended.

From the last news I've heard there has been no success with embryonic stem cells but there has been some success with adult stem cells. I'm not talking about the manipulation of them but the actual use of them in treating people. As a matter of fact I heard that they tried something with embryonic stem cells and it actually caused harm.

In adult stem cells and those retrieved from placentas no life is ended.

Lets face it mankind is obsessed with death and with playing God. Many prey on the weak. God won't put up with this forever.




posted on May, 15 2005 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by WissNX01

There is no killing of babies involved.
And adult stem cells do not have the properties of embryonic ones. Adult stem cells are much more difficult to manipulate than the embryonic ones. Proof is with the rats they have attempted to use adult stem cells on. Unfortunatly, the success rate for adult stem cells requires a viable alternative.





If I remember right seraph5 is a 14 year old. Life begins at conception a life is ended.

From the last news I've heard there has been no success with embryonic stem cells but there has been some success with adult stem cells. I'm not talking about the manipulation of them but the actual use of them in treating people. As a matter of fact I heard that they tried something with embryonic stem cells and it actually caused harm.

In adult stem cells and those retrieved from placentas no life is ended.

Lets face it mankind is obsessed with death and with playing God. Many prey on the weak. God won't put up with this forever.


I have heard this too. And you wonder why they keep going with the ESCs and not focus so much more media and research on the adult stem cells.

By the way, I'm not 14 if that is what you meant


I am in my early 20s.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by seraph5
I have heard this too. And you wonder why they keep going with the ESCs and not focus so much more media and research on the adult stem cells.




Sorry to get your age wrong. My guess is that there are many in positions of power and abortion is a big business. Money influences alot of people. Those who support abortion are always pushing the envelope. They want to gain more and more power in the area of abortion/etc. They are looking for life to come from death(embryonic stem cell research) that way they can claim that there is purpose in death and that it's OK.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 04:35 PM
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*sigh*

how many times i have to tell people, take religion out of science!!! seperate stae and church!!!

don't let your belifs cloud your judgment.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by ulshadow
*sigh*

how many times i have to tell people, take religion out of science!!! seperate stae and church!!!

don't let your belifs cloud your judgment.



Well, what are we without our beliefs. Everyone has beliefs as I am sure you do. Your belief is that WE SHOULD NOT ALLOW RELIGION TO CLOUD OUR JUDGEMENT. My belief is that religion should be th be the basis for my judgements. So there you go, it would be impossible to look at everything objectively. If you can do that, all the power to you.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 05:24 PM
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seraph5, I also believe in God. However, you can resist and debate the ethics of stem cell research till your fingertips fall off, but the technology and science of it will expand anyway. And you know what, the Pope himself has said he is against it, as well as the President. Guess what? Progress is still being made.

In California, stem cell research facilities are popping up like weeds. We have a law that allows this. While the rest of the world and the rest of the country debate ethics, they are wasting precious time.

If stem cells do not pan out, the investmetn in the research will evolve into other fields that will give hope still. The economic possibilities of this whole field is awesome.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 05:36 PM
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So Wiss, I am a little confused. are you for or against the use of embryonic stem cells? I wasn't quite sure if you were agreeing with the Pope or not.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 05:48 PM
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Lets face it folks, the genie is out of the bottle and its going to be developed, whether your for it or agin' it.

I remember the last little snit fit that had everyone yelling that mankind was playing god. In vitro fertilization.

I believe it was 1978 when a child was concieved in glass and implanted into her mothers womb. Nine months later Louise Brown was born and all hell broke loose. The ethics and debates about playing god were rampant.

Here we are 30 some odd years later and Louise Brown is married and has two healthy children of her own. In vitro fertilization is quite common place for those who struggle to bring children into this world.

Yes, along the way the new technology was abused. We had women giving birth to whole litters of children instead of the one or two that's normal.

Still, no one considers it playing god anymore. It's an accepted medical tool for the people with low fertility rates.

Stem cell research will be the same. It will develope and it will grow. Along the way it will be both abused and also bring great things.

It's just another step in the development of knowlegde and it can't be stopped.

Love and light,

Wupy



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 06:04 PM
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I know it can't be stopped. However, i am not going to give in and will kick and scream (although calmly
) to the end. In vitro fertilization, welll, it is a stretch from my beliefs, however, it is to help a mother have a child, the child is born (hate the fact that it takes so many tries though). It is for a person who wants to raise and love a child, it is not used as a "resource", although these days, they do want to use the "failed" babies in stem cells research.

I agree all the time that stem cells will benefit humnity, but should we allow it? Is the price too high? blah blah blah



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 06:11 PM
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I dont agree with the Pope, Pres. Bush, or the minority of people that are against stem cell research. If you call this playing God, then you can say the same thing about anything else. Surgery can be considered playing God, so could fertility treatment.

The potential benifits of stem cell research outwieghs the benifits of not doing so.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by ulshadow
*sigh*

how many times i have to tell people, take religion out of science!!! seperate stae and church!!!

don't let your belifs cloud your judgment.



The thing is I believe in Jesus Christ, not just for 2 hours on Sunday. I believe He is God every second of every day. I am to filter everything through Him first, because then I know the truth. So asking someone who believes in Christ to seperate part of their life from Him is not possible and not what God wants either.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 06:18 PM
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Thats all well and good, but your belief in Christ will not stop the progress of science. And if I go to church two hours a week, or twelve, it doesnt matter, who are you to judge whats in a persons heart? Last I heard, that was the job of God.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by WissNX01
who are you to judge whats in a persons heart? Last I heard, that was the job of God.


Who is talking about judging you? I answered someone who said to leave God out of part of life. I am informing people that for a real christian, God is our life.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 06:40 PM
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The thing is I believe in Jesus Christ, not just for 2 hours on Sunday. I believe He is God every second of every day. I am to filter everything through Him first, because then I know the truth. So asking someone who believes in Christ to seperate part of their life from Him is not possible and not what God wants either.


Thats a judgement statement, implying that because you are a real 'Christian', you are more virtuous than anyone else. Just because a person chooses to separate religion/politics/science from each other, doesnt cloud thier religious view. Sometimes Christians are so block headed and so insistant on how others are suppose to believe. There is nothing wrong with professing your views and loving Jesus, but theres a point when it just becomes obnoxious.

You need to enter into prayer or something, because you are judging others.

[edit on 05/5/15 by WissNX01]

[edit on 05/5/15 by WissNX01]



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt

The thing is I believe in Jesus Christ, not just for 2 hours on Sunday. I believe He is God every second of every day. I am to filter everything through Him first, because then I know the truth. So asking someone who believes in Christ to seperate part of their life from Him is not possible and not what God wants either.



So basicly, you're saying the rest of us should suffer from horrible desease's and die prematurely because you think thats what your imaginary friend wants for us.

Hey, i'm not judging here. You have a right to be a nut bag. Just as i'm sure you feel the same about me.

This is such an odd topic.

If I wanted to play God i'd start my own religion. People do it every day. It's not something that is difficult. Declare yourself to be the messiah and promise apples and oranges to everyone that kills a non-believer. You'd have more converts then you could shake your holy sceptor at.

Science on the other hand is making inroads to the very nature of mankinds existence. We have the genome, We have the ability to understand just what we are, we even have the ability to create life with the aforementioned in vitro.

We now simply have to get a handle on this.

Will we become a species who allows religion to stop our curiosity and kill our growth? Or will we become a species who follows exploration all the way to the door of the christians scary hell.

Personally, i'm hoping we can find a balance between the two.

Love and light,

Wupy



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by mrwupy

So basicly, you're saying the rest of us should suffer from horrible desease's and die prematurely because you think thats what your imaginary friend wants for us.

Hey, i'm not judging here. You have a right to be a nut bag. Just as i'm sure you feel the same about me.




Wow......I went back and read my post. How in the world did you come up with I wanted you to suffer a horrible disease?


If I wished horrible diseases on people I would not be a christian. Why would I glory in someone else's suffering?



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 09:01 PM
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The stupidity of Christians is amazing. They ride in on thier high-horse, get on thier soap-box and think that the rest of us should just conform to them and believe as they do. That is why science and the 'world' is winning over religion. No one is suppose to think alike, and its just silly how Christians can carry on.

Im not saying all Christians, just fundamentalists. They are no different than the Taliban or the mullahs in Iran



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by seraph5
In vitro fertilization, welll, it is a stretch from my beliefs, however, it is to help a mother have a child, the child is born (hate the fact that it takes so many tries though). It is for a person who wants to raise and love a child, it is not used as a "resource", although these days, they do want to use the "failed" babies in stem cells research.


So "playing god" is o.k sometimes? LMFAO!

Like when women (whom "god" made infertile), want to have babies, it's ok to defy his will? (god made her infertile right?) Everytime a defibrillator shocks a flatlines heart back to life, are we playing god then? (heart stopped=death, defibrillator=raising the dead?) What about our cures for disease? In days of old they were called plagues, and were sent from God. So are we then defying his will when we attempt to cure ourselves?(no theraflu dear god is mad at you)

Coming from an aspiring doctor I find your arguments puzzling. Where exactly do you draw your arbitrary lines as to what gods will is , and or isn't? If you are that afraid of "playing god", perhaps medicine is not the profession for you. If you were alive a few centuries ago I could speculate that you would be against examining cadavres and preforming autopsies, as the church was also. (playing with dead bodies was just "evil", and "wrong") I could also speculate that if you were alive a thousand years ago, you would of argued about the "evils"of Alchemy and Pharmakia , dismissing it as "sorcery", just as the church did("evil", and "wrong")


Interesting topic though, many great points already made. Living in California I can't help but laugh at those of you who actually take this issue seriously. We (california) as someone else mentioned, have centers popping up all over, thanks to a recent initiative.

Just like Clinton and his ban on cloning, all of you who oppose scientific research can take their rightful place alongside history's favourite religious zealots.

Those familiar with history might find startling parallels between those who fight stem cell research today and those who once thought it "wrong" to entertain the heliocentric theory in the 16th century. From every issue whether it be the earth being round, and revolving around the sun, right up to todays mindless arguments on cloning and stem cells, ALL scientific advances have been resisted by the mindless, and religious masses throughout time. Science (i.e medicine, pharmakia) is for those brave souls who dare question the authority of whatever religious views might be fashionable at any given time.

The more things change......The more they stay the same......Sad really.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 10:02 PM
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You have voted phoenixhasrisin for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by WissNX01
I'm not saying all Christians, just fundamentalists. They are no different than the Taliban or the mullahs in Iran




So, I don't think hands and heads should be chopped off of people who don't share my beliefs. So how am I like the taliban or mullahs? They also say become muslim or we kill you. Change your mind about being a muslim and we'll kill you or ostracize and/or persecute you.

Christianity is a choice. You can become one or not it's up to you. I can't make you become one because it's a choice of the heart and mind and an act of your will.






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