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WAR: Canada sending 100 troops and $170M to Sudan

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posted on May, 13 2005 @ 11:48 PM
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You have voted Phugedaboudet for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


I couldn`t have said it better myself.




posted on May, 14 2005 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Been "shamed"?!

What you been smoking, DeusEx?

I'm sorry, what are the troop numbers? Little Canada, with a nine billion dollar military budget and one fifth your population is doing more for Darfur than your entire damn country, so take your Amerika uber alles attitude and shove it.

Hey buddy, that "52,000" men been able to halt the genocide that is still currently taking place in Sudan? What....Canada going to send another 100 so they can sit back and watch, too?

It'll still be two hundred more than your nation is willing to send. And those fity-two thousand men represent ALL of Canada's standing national defence force, in all branches. Way to check the link, Seeker.

Your making excuses for the United Nations inactions and failings in Sudan. For every word wasted by the UN discussing options in Sudan, another 5,000+ die while another 25,000+ are displaced and become refugees.

You're not even bothering to make excuses, you're just displacing the blame. How many of those nations in the UN can actually FEED themselves, much less field a standing army or afford to send a peacekeeping force abroad? Because, ya know, I hear that Uzebekistan is really craving to be the new premiere peacekeeper in the world. Canada's gotta watch out for Holland, too. Did you also miss the fact that the AU didn't pitch, and a fair amount of those antions are in the UN, too?

Nice.
Remember: the cup is half-full, not half-empty, correct?
There are how many members in the UN?
Why is it that when something needs to be done, the US gets the finger pointed at them, but then when the US does get something done, then the US is the fault, breaking "international" laws, etc.?

So, let me get this straight- more than five thousand people die every day in Sudan, and twenty-five thousand more are displaced. Yet, the US chooses to invade Iraq, based on faulty intelligence. That's not 'getting something done', that's criminal negligence at best.

Tell you what, keep the US out of this, since of course, we are the nation contributing the greatest amount of money towards reconstruction and humanitarian efforts in Sudan. US needs to do nothing more. Its time that the other UN members learn to act instead of relying on the US to bail them out, k?

Tout yourselves as the greatest nation on earth, claim you spread democracy and you stand for liberty and all that BS the right always spouts. You know what? It's just another lie. The money is 'promised', not contributed.

You have no troops in the Sudan.

You have no aid heading for the Sudan, and if it is, it's not getting to the people who need it.

Instead, America captures a tin-pot dictator and creates more chaos in the country it was trying to save.

You're right, the US has no bussiness in this discussion. This is a disccusion about helping people, and the US simply has no desire to do that.

DE




posted on May, 14 2005 @ 12:43 AM
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This article outlines a little more clearly what form the military aid will take:



Among personnel to be sent will be intelligence officers, and a geomatics section to help produce maps and provide logistical support.

Two small groups of Canadian Forces members will take part in the mission, although it won't involve combat troops.

"Our new assistance will support (African Union) peackeeping operations in Darfur in a number of ways," Martin said.

He said it includes transport helicopters, strategic airlift capability and - initially - up to 100 Canadian Forces military experts to provide technical and strategic support for the African Union.

About 40 of the personnel will participate in the UN mission in southern Sudan.

The rest will deploy within three months to support the AU mission, said defence department spokesman, Lieutenant-Navy Desmond James.

Canada sending more Darfur aid


This fits in quite nicely with how I feel our military should be used. I really like a lot of General Hillier's idea's outlined in the Defence Policy Statement. I think he was an exellent choice for Chief of the Defence Staff.

[edit on 14-5-2005 by Duzey]



posted on May, 14 2005 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by Duzey
[ou know I can't disagree with any of this; I'm just very cynical when it comes to politics. I know this didn't just come out of the blue. But you do have to admire the timing of the announcement. More Americans should follow Canadian politics; it's absolutely fascinating to watch the maneuvering that goes on up here. I would enjoy it more if these idiots weren't in charge of running the country, though.


We're totally on the same page here, Duzey. Although voting Independent may just help Harper more than it hurts him. That's my fear. I have dialogued with Jack Layton through e-mail recently. He's pretty down to earth and I like a lot of what he has to say. But I became disappointed with the NDP stance on bill C420 and Codex Alimentarius (they support it). So now I'm at a loss. But I do know that I am election weary right now and this brouhaha is making me nuts.


I'm pleased we are sending the help to Darfur...,

...Sending troops where we think they can actually do a bit of good. More peacekeeping. And you know how fond I am of Lester B. Pearson, AL.


Me too and the sooner the better. Its a concept that is needed now more than ever... Mike was a helluva a guy, we got some of our best programs with him...and all during minority governments.
to him and Tommy Douglas!



And yes, Dallaire's book is on my reading list
.

It is excellent and a must read - he almost lost his mind with that mission and says he still has nightmares to this day about it. It never leaves him. While you are waiting for the book to be available, do rent the documentary - his return to Rwanda 10 years later to try and confront the ghosts that haunt him. With contributions by Stephen Lewis (very critical of the UN). It is extremely moving. The exact title is Shake Hands with the Devil - the Journey of Romeo Dallaire. BTW - He was #16 on our list. I admire him greatly!

CBC Archives-Dallaire



posted on May, 14 2005 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by AlwaysLearning
But I do know that I am election weary right now and this brouhaha is making me nuts.


Tell me about it. We've got our provincials right now, plus a referendum on changing our electoral system over to Single Transferable Vote. I don't really want to jump right into a federal election. I am so tired of listening to all the special interest groups advertising.

Back to the topic, Sudan has told us that they don't want our help, and that we should have asked them first. We told them 'too bad, we're coming anyway'. I'm not quite sure how I feel about this.



But Sudanese ambassador Faiza Hassan Taha said Friday that Ottawa didn't consult or negotiate with Sudan on the planned deployment of Canadians before Martin made an announcement and that the troops will not be allowed into the country.

PMO spokeswoman Melanie Gruer told The Globe and Mail that Martin phoned Sudanese President Omar Hassan al-Bashir about 24 hours in advance of the announcement.

When asked whether the conversation was a "consultation," Gruer repeated that "the Sudanese were advised."

Taha said that while Sudan welcomes Canadian concern, it objects to non-African peacekeeping troops in Darfur.

www.ctv.ca



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 12:24 AM
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DeusEx: [be sure to take notes on how to quote effectively here]



I'm sorry, what are the troop numbers? Little Canada, with a nine billion dollar military budget and one fifth your population is doing more for Darfur than your entire damn country, so take your Amerika uber alles attitude and shove it.

Touched a cord with you, DeusEx?




It'll still be two hundred more than your nation is willing to send. And those fity-two thousand men represent ALL of Canada's standing national defence force, in all branches. Way to check the link, Seeker.

Erm, DeusEx, maybe it is you who needs to check some links or do a bit of research, k?

The US is not sending troops because of one primary reason: we were not asked. As posted above by Duzey, you will see that even your vaunted Canadian troops are not even being requested, and yet, Canada insists on sending them anyways. Hello?!



So, let me get this straight- more than five thousand people die every day in Sudan, and twenty-five thousand more are displaced. Yet, the US chooses to invade Iraq, based on faulty intelligence. That's not 'getting something done', that's criminal negligence at best.

And prior to the 2nd Gulf War, Canada was where in relation to Sudan, Darfur, Rowanda, etc.? As to the allegation of "criminal negligence", please, may Canada, and you, feel free at any time to file charges, k?




Tout yourselves as the greatest nation on earth, claim you spread democracy and you stand for liberty and all that BS the right always spouts. You know what? It's just another lie. The money is 'promised', not contributed.

Yeah, okie dokie, DeusEx.
The US is "lying" and the money is nothing but a "promise"? Then the money being offered by Canada is a "lie" and merely another unfulfilled "promise". Btw, where that money coming from anyhow? Out of the mere $9-13 billion military budget, as par?



You have no troops in the Sudan.

Neither does Canada, so?



You have no aid heading for the Sudan, and if it is, it's not getting to the people who need it.

Erm, if you, yourself, would have read the link on page one I provided, you will have noted that the US has already sent over $800 million.

And "if" our aid is not getting to the people who need it, does sending 100 men guarantee that the $170 million "promised" will get to those who are in need of it? Not likely. So what makes you think that Canadian aid will get where it is supposed to go, DeusEx?



Instead, America captures a tin-pot dictator and creates more chaos in the country it was trying to save.

According to a vast majority of Iraqis, you are incorrect. Who should we be listening to: you or the Iraqis? Methinks the latter.



You're right, the US has no bussiness in this discussion. This is a disccusion about helping people, and the US simply has no desire to do that.

Subjective, nothing more, nothing less. You can certainly do better than that.





seekerof

[edit on 15-5-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 12:28 AM
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Perhap's when PM Martin is done doing that and has not already been called into a new Election he can do something towards the poverty strichen people in Canada !!

Dallas



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by Dallas

Perhap's when PM Martin is done doing that and has not already been called into a new Election he can do something towards the poverty strichen people in Canada !!

Dallas


Huh???

Poverty stricken people in Canada??

wtf????

Where did that come from???



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Erm, DeusEx, maybe it is you who needs to check some links or do a bit of research, k?

The US is not sending troops because of one primary reason: we were not asked. As posted above by Duzey, you will see that even your vaunted Canadian troops are not even being requested, and yet, Canada insists on sending them anyways. Hello?!


Who's going to request them? The UN and AU aren't doing so hot there right now, so we're sending help because they need it. Backing them up, as it were. Anyways, little late for the dead.



And prior to the 2nd Gulf War, Canada was where in relation to Sudan, Rowanda, etc.? As to the allegation of criminal negligence, please feel free at any time to file charges, k?


Same place as it is now. Wanting to help, but due to financial and manpower reasons being unable to effect a real, last prescence in-country. I'm sorry my country can't afford to sell out its seniors and young for a trillion-dollar war machine. Does that make you feel better?



Yeah, okie dokie, DeusEx.
The US is lying and the money is nothing but a "promise"? Then the money being offered by Canada isa lie and merely another unfilled "promise". Btw, where that money coming from anyhow? Out of the mere $9-13 billion military budget?


Damned if I know where's coming from, the liberals are throwing money everywhere these days. And it's more than a promise- we have soldiers to make sure at least some of it gets to the people who need it. As for yours...well, congradulations on continuing the fine American tradition of proping up despotic buthers.



Erm, if you, yourself, would have read the link on page one I provided, you will have noted that the US has already sent over $800 million.


See above. How much of that got anywhere?


According to a vast majority of Iraqis, you are incorrect. Who should we be listening to: you or the Iraqis? Methinks the latter.


Well, the live ones anyways. Oh, I forgot...less of those every day. Iraq is so safe, with daily suicide bombings and assaults on Coalition bases. Gee, I hate to say it but I don't remember any of that when your old buddy Saddam was around.



Subjective, nothing more, nothing less. You can certainly do better than that.


I sure can. Do I need to? No. Look at the fun history of US funding tyrants and despots. May I suggest you look in the following places: Cambodia in the 70's, Iraq and Iran in the 80's, and Uzbekistan today.

DE

[edit on 15-5-2005 by DeusEx]



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 12:44 AM
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Still have not learned how to quote yet, DeusEx? :shk:
As to your mention: oh, now you want me to provide links and sources?
The only source and link you currently need my friend, is the one that was provided by Duzey.

Hello?!





seekerof



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 12:45 AM
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There are as many people living on the street in Toronto as there are in Vancouver. I don't care if drugs or mental troubles are causal it is happening and gos on day after day after day and when the Feds get involved they give a small lump sum and once its gone - it's gone. Yet no continual program to help the 'street people'.

Dallas



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 01:34 PM
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Here ya go, DeusEx. Hope you enjoy the read.
Very insightful.

About Sudan - What can be done about this evil regime?

Originally posted by the National Review.




seekerof



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof

as posted by Aelita
Need we say more?


Quite frankly, between you and your fellow anti-US cohorts who posted prior to you, all of you need to simply think.

How so?
Try these from April 2005:


Zoellick said the United States will devote more than $1.7 billion to reconstruction efforts and humanitarian aid in Sudan for this year, and "there will be more" over the next two years. Congress already has allocated $850 million to help the Sudanese in 2005 and the president has asked lawmakers to approve another $880 million.

U.S. to promise $1.7B in aid for Sudan

More here:
U.S. to Promise $1.7B in Aid for Sudan

Someone mentioned OIL, in relation to the US?
:shk:
Pathetic and 'a' typical for those less inclined to research Sudan and its oil, huh?!

Try these:
China: Protectorate of Sudan and its oil
Sudan's oil makes China a defender against U.N.
Oil-hungry China takes Sudan under its wing


posted by xmotex
Simply stating fairly obvious facts is now "US-bashing."

Obvious my butt.
Always the US, huh?

More subjective than objective, as par.
NO mention or bashing of the UN, French, Canadian, and Chinese misteps on this issue of course, huh?
Simply pathetic.

[edit on 13-5-2005 by Seekerof]

I think you forgot to list a few companies there seekerof...
Dyncorp Corporation, and Pacific Architects & Engineers


"There is not a lot of transparency about these contracts, we don't know how they vet recruits or what kind of training they get," she says. Unlike a government agency, the private companies are not required to tell the public exactly what they do, often citing "business confidentiality."

Military Contractors Working for Peace
Dyncorp is already working in Sudan, under the same State Department contract, on the long-standing "North-South" peace negotiations to end the 21-year civil war between the Government of Sudan and the Sudan People's Liberation Movement, the rebel group based in the south. The company provides staff in Washington DC who arrange housing and transportation to the delegates who meet in Nairobi, Kenya.

"Why are we using private contractors to do peace negotiations in Sudan? The answer is simple," says a senior United States government official who works on Sudan-related issues who preferred to remain anonymous. "We are not allowed to fund a political party or agenda under United States law, so by using private contractors, we can get around those provisions. Think of this as somewhere between a covert program run by the CIA and an overt program run by the United States Agency for International Development. It is a way to avoid oversight by Congress."

DynCorp has dozens of these little contracts all over the world from Afghanistan to the Mexican border, several of which have landed the company in hot water.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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Talisman Energy I think is the Canadian Company that had so much vested interest in Sudan... Always follow the money...



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 03:31 PM
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Dallas are you kidding..?!? lets be realistic drugs and mental problems are everywere in this world.....and yes there is a small portion of people in Canada living on the streets.....the middleclass is at a higher percent and lower class at a lower percent then the united states......So what I want to know is whats ur point and how does it relate to Canada helping Sudan in its time of need

Twitchy good point mayne you always gotta remember to follow the money trail and yeah your right we(Canada) do have a huge energy investment in Sudan



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