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Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions

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posted on May, 12 2005 @ 07:27 PM
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Illegal immigrants who worked in a vineyard in Clarksburg, Calif., paid taxes for Social Security and Medicare, but will not get any benefits.


STOCKTON, Calif. - Since illegally crossing the Mexican border into the United States six years ago, Ángel Martínez has done backbreaking work, harvesting asparagus, pruning grapevines and picking the ripe fruit. More recently, he has also washed trucks, often working as much as 70 hours a week, earning $8.50 to $12.75 an hour.

Not surprisingly, Mr. Martínez, 28, has not given much thought to Social Security's long-term financial problems. But Mr. Martínez - who comes from the state of Oaxaca in southern Mexico and hiked for two days through the desert to enter the United States near Tecate, some 20 miles east of Tijuana - contributes more than most Americans to the solvency of the nation's public retirement system.

Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of a public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare as soon as they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits.

He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.

New York Times
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This is a fascinating aspect that I have never heard discussed whether the conversation is about Social Security or illegal immigration.

How would illegal immigration reform affect the US's social security program? Reversely, how would Bush's attempt to 'reform' social security affect the billions that illegals pay into it?




posted on May, 12 2005 @ 08:15 PM
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Illegals are working in this country and paying taxes

How does that work...illegal SS#'s and fake IDs?

I have heard this mentioned on more than one occasion on Lou Dobbs cable TV show, btw. It may not be a well-known fact, but it is not really kept from the public.
Don't forget mainstream media can't follow too many stories for any length of time.

Sorry if this sounds callous, but so what? It seems like a farfetched number anyway.
What about all the $$$$$$ spent for health care and education for illegals? Those are tax dollars of mine that I don't get to collect on. As a matter of fact, look at the thousands people w/o kids pay for education of citizens....we never collect on that investment/tax.

At least these people have jobs, which is more than I can say for many American citizens. And anyway, life ain't fair.



posted on May, 13 2005 @ 12:24 AM
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Yeah, illegal immigrants don't pay into social security or taxes. I live in Arizona, so I pretty much experience all of this illegal immigration stuff firsthand. My mom's a nurse, and gets patience all the time that are illegals, but they have to give them healthcare because of our policy. Not only that, but since they are illegal, they never have to pay for the service, resulting in a tax hike for us tax payers. Illegals cost us billions of dollars a year in taxes...

Just my two cents anyway.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 02:50 PM
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I wonder how privatization would affect the billons that illegals pump into social security? Could some in the government be hoping that the US could pocket the money that people put in, but can never take out? Instead of turning that money back around into the US economy and social services?



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 02:56 AM
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Many employers will go ahead and pay into the Social Security system the standard 14%, roughly, with Medicare included, if the employee provides a Social Security number, even if the employer secretly knows the employee is probably illegal. So long as the paperwork looks good it's in his interest to obey the law in appearance at least. It's also his defense against prosecution!

Yes, unfettered immigration does help the SS system in the short run. This fact is not mentioned in the mass media much because it's hard to script or spin as a "left" or "right" issue.

Unfettered population growth by immigration also increases pollution, uses more land, degrades each American's share of our common property (like it or not, we all own a lot of Federal land and buildings in common), drives down wages, adds costs to poverty, health care, law enforcement, and educational budgets.

Not only are we not allowed to vote directly on this, (we are after all a republic), most people don't even know who decides on how much LEGAL immigration is allowed. The INS was dismantled after 9-11 and now it's all decided by the Justice Dept. with oversight by a subcommittee.

www.govexec.com...

For historical perspective,
www.jsri.msu.edu...

And now, for the list of names of those who decide immigration issues today: (drum roll...)
judiciary.house.gov...



posted on Jun, 5 2005 @ 08:52 PM
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I just looked at the list of legislaors who decide immigration issues. Of 16 members, 7 are from California, 1 is from Arizona, and 3 are from Texas. That leaves 5 members from the rest of the 50 states.

Does anything find this a bit odd


cjf

posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 12:03 AM
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Originally posted by Noumenon
Many employers will go ahead and pay into the Social Security system the standard 14%, roughly, with Medicare included, if the employee provides a Social Security number, even if the employer secretly knows the employee is probably illegal. So long as the paperwork looks good it's in his interest to obey the law in appearance at least. It's also his defense against prosecution!


Yes, the paperwork has to look good enough to get through US federal inspectors which enforce audits on the requirements of the Employment I-9 and that SS# must be run through SS and returned as ‘valid’ prior to employment. SS payments can not go to an invalid account.

Briefly: One example the posted article may have left out:

Given I can not knowingly hire illegal aliens; there are some problems even with this. I have an annual average of +-120 hourly employees, excluding all salaried, in a small branch of and international company in Texas. In the above mentioned group approximately 30% are considered Hispanic.

This is a very common scam I hear of far too often and I know personally:

Worker gets a job with good looking papers. These papers belong to somebody else which ‘looks’ very close to the identification required by the I-9 but are very valid and real. The Worker (illegal) pays in cash a percentage (20-30%) of earnings to the provider of the papers for a given period of time (1+ years). The provider of the papers may have 1-4 persons doing the same on his SS# in the same city and may broker other person’s legal papers for commissions. Any taxes owed for excess earnings by the owner and provider of the papers is divided among the persons using the papers to be paid, but any refund the provider keeps. Provider of the paper earns all the SS credits, tax credits etc. The only way to detect this is if the provider shows himself for some reason, collection, delinquency of payments, gets turned-in etc. But they keep the number of jobs low enough on one set of papers not to flag the INS.

To your point:

Originally posted by Noumenon
Unfettered population growth by immigration also increases pollution, uses more land, degrades each American's share of our common property (like it or not, we all own a lot of Federal land and buildings in common), drives down wages, adds costs to poverty, health care, law enforcement, and educational budgets


The ‘illegal’ employee does however remain in the States this way, any children born are now citizens, free education, free lunches and they can receive aid, now the parents can apply for citizenship, work visas on and on….

There are more but this is most common and the ‘illegal’ sees nothing from his taxes and SS payments or this period. From what I learned it is the legal Hispanics preying upon the ‘illegal’ Hispanics for this particular scam.


.



posted on Jun, 6 2005 @ 03:26 PM
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Just a small point:

"The ‘illegal’ employee does however remain in the States this way, any children born are now citizens, free education, free lunches and they can receive aid, now the parents can apply for citizenship, work visas on and on…. "

Whilst it's true that a child born on US soil is a US citizen, it cannot claim benefits for any non-citizen parent until that child is 21 years of age.

There are sometimes waivers for this requirement, but these are unusual - thus, the parents of the child cannot receive any sort of immigrant benefit until the child is 21 and able to petition on their behalf.

As a legal immigrant, I still believe that there's a pressing need for immigration reform; basically the BCIS doesn't have the financial resources needed to create or maintain either an effective "tracking" system, or any system required to verify an individual's status.

I'm not entirely sure how this could be fixed; sadly even pouring in money at this stage wouldn't solve the problems relating to illegal aliens who are already here.


cjf

posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by Tinkleflower
Whilst it's true that a child born on US soil is a US citizen, it cannot claim benefits for any non-citizen parent until that child is 21 years of age.

There are sometimes waivers for this requirement, but these are unusual - thus, the parents of the child cannot receive any sort of immigrant benefit until the child is 21 and able to petition on their behalf.


Under current conditions the parents can benefit directly and indirectly from the child’s citizen status. However; conditions may apply, yet loopholes exist.

A ‘citizen’ child immediately becomes eligible for aid which benefits the family such as in the case of food stamps (as an example). The parents can apply for the ‘citizen’ child. The ‘citizen’ child does not have to report for work eligibility until age 16 and the number of person in the household can include illegal aliens.



All unemployed able-bodied persons age 16 through 59 must register for employment services before initial certification and participate after certification. A person is exempt from registration for employment services if the person is:
• under age 16 or age 60 and older
Texas link to USDA food stamp qualifications


Illegal Aliens will not be reported to the INS in the application for food stamps:



From the Q&A text form above link

Does everyone in my home have to be a U.S. citizen to get Food Stamps?

No. United States citizens and some aliens admitted for permanent residency may qualify for Food Stamps. Those in the country illegally do not qualify, but the citizen or legal resident family members of an illegal alien may still get Food Stamps, even if the illegal alien is in the home. Illegal aliens in the home are not reported to the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS).


This is also true of county, state and federal medical benefits and supplements (in Texas a county card for hospitals), food bank eligibility, infant formula programs etc.

There is quite an overwhelming amount of information available about many US government programs in which illegal aliens can benefit directly in this particular case.


.



posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 08:24 AM
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Whilst I see your points, my original point might have gotten lost.

The citizen child can not apply for aid relating to his/her parents until that child is 21. In many states (North Dakota is only one), this means you cannot obtain aid AT ALL for a non-citizen relative unless that relative is either your dependent (a non-disabled parent rarely counts) or qualifies on their own. Legal residents usually have the "40 quarter" restriction placed - unless/until you've worked for 40 quarters (and thus paid taxes etc), you cannot obtain most means-tested benefits. This is all covered in the affidavit of support signed by the legal alien's petitioner.

The foodstamp situation is similar - and whilst your link does in fact say that food stamps will be awarded regardless of the number of illegals in your house...what it fails to clarify is that in reality, the amount awarded IS based upon the number of members in your household who legally qualify. IOW, if your citizen child has one citizen sibling and two illegal parents, the amount awarded would only cover the two siblings. The same reasoning applies for the vast majority of means-tested benefits, though this can vary by state.

Food banks are usually different, if only for one reason - the majority aren't government supported. This means virtually anyone can turn up and receive aid. I don't actually have a problem with that, although it irks me when it's obviously abused (you know - the family who turn up in a brand new SUV and have suddenly acquired 4 new children....). Of course, such parents will obviously obtain help indirectly, through the child....but are we also ignoring the commonly held belief that when the child does successfully petition, the parents will actually stand a good chance of becoming productive (in whatever capacity) members of society?

Yes, there are loopholes. Yes, there will always be exceptions. Essentially though, I'm trying to clear up the misconception that upon being born, a child of illegal aliens will automatically clear the road for the parents to obtain every kind of benefit available. The reality is different.

And we still need to reform Immigration.


cjf

posted on Jun, 7 2005 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by Tinkleflower
Yes, there are loopholes. Yes, there will always be exceptions. Essentially though, I'm trying to clear up the misconception that upon being born, a child of illegal aliens will automatically clear the road for the parents to obtain every kind of benefit available. The reality is different.

And we still need to reform Immigration.


A point in fact: Can the INS deport the ‘illegal alien’ parents of a minor child ‘citizen’ based solely upon illegal immigration without civil action? No. The child can not be deprived of its (ironically) inalienable rights. The parents use this ‘right’ in all applications; it is aptly called ‘rights gaming’.

While I tried to give a working example, there are many more. Each state may operate differently, however in each and every case INS may not and can not be notified of illegal aliens in any household by applicants, even if the applicant is illegal applying by proxy.

So in the above case, the number of persons related in a household in application need not show residency status and for that matter employment. If the household residence are illegal it is taken they are not employed. Credit is issued accordingly. Thus, school, school lunches, food banks (based upon zip codes and established residency criterion) are fallaciously going to person who need not show citizenship which can and receive benefits equal to those of citizens especially when showing a child is a citizen.

I am not arguing your point rather than stating: Illegal aliens are not deprived other than by the means of their own opportunists within their community.



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