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Who Believes the Rapture?

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posted on May, 14 2005 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by BadMojo
There will be only one "rapture"...after all of the tribulations.


I don't believe this and there is plenty of verses to discredit this. I've stated the verses on other threads about the rapture. I simply have seen the proof throughout the Bible for a rapture before the tribulation. It's there if someone is willing to put all the verses together.




posted on May, 16 2005 @ 03:49 PM
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the floods are symbolic of waters or peoples or as per revelation 13, satans lies . those are what u escape from on the ark.

2thess2 says when the gathering back to christ will be, and it was written in respone to the same confusion in the church in those times as now, after 1thess4 was written.

our gathering back to christ will not occur until the son of perdition sits in the temple claiming to be god. he has the power to speak 42 months (rev 13) and forces teh world to accept the mark fo the beast (worship/service of satan).

no one is going anywhere.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
The 144,000 mentioned refers to Jews who have converted to Christianity and are preaching the word.


But how am I, an ignorant man, supposed to know that? What if something happens and everyone forgets that thats what its supposed to mean? I mean, thats an interpretation, not an 'obvious' reading, no?

hy can't those who don't just accept that some do and leave it at that? Those who do believe it should not condemn and criticize those who don't, either

Indeed. There's no reason to not discuss it either tho.
[quiote]elevated one
OMG...I agree with EKC...in that... I believe in the Rapture.
But why do you beleive in the Rapture? Is it from the bible or some extrabiblical teaching or custom?? How do you see it as happening and what does it mean for your theology ? I mean, if people literally rise up]/i] into the sky on their way to heaven, does that mean that heaven is up, and that heaven is a phsyical place able to accomodate phsyical bodies?
I am curious, does beleif in the Rapture allways coincide with beleife in the physical restoration of the body at the Second Comming, for everyone and the phsyical movement of that body into heaven??

jake1997
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [/quopte]
Isn't this not pre-tribulation then tho? Its jsut saying that at teh end of the world we all go up into the sky.
My reading of part of it is that when people die, they reside in the grave, where their wait, until the Second Comming. Then, they leave the grave, and literally fly into the sky, along with some people who have not died.
Also, at what point does one sit before judgement in heaven? Where does the checking of the book of life fit in here? Those who were saved were in the grave until the second comming, those not saved, and dead, stay in the grave then no? So then its only those not saved, but still alive at the Second Comming, who are put to verification against the book of life? And if they have been saved in the interveneing period, then they are in the book, and if not they are oblitereated in the lake of fire?
What happens to the 'spirits' of those who died unsaved before the rapture? They get destroyed in the lake of fire then? Or they simply remain in a none-state, in 'sheol', in the grave, ie, non-existant, just like after one is cast into the lake of fire?



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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in the kingdom of heaven. Heaven is all around us. This IS God's kingdom that he put us in charge to take care of. Doing a heck of a job, eh? Heaven is neither up or down. It is all around.

When one begins to understand the eternal light that flows through this universe, the energy that is GOD then one can begin to comprehend of what Jesus speaks when he says "I am the LIGHT".

Only with this understanding can one truly attempt to translate the BIBLE. One needs to call Emperor Constatine and ask him what he did with the rest of the books. Of course, if they had been added then he would have been exposed, and Christianity would be much different than what is "taught" today.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 12:51 PM
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I'm not a bible scholar. Maybe I'm ignorant. Is the rapture related to the deal where all the believers in Christ get swept away to heaven, and the non-believers go to heck or are "left behind" ?

Is that anyway for a lord to act ? What about infants ? Aborigines ? bigfoot ? It doesn't seem like a very christian thing to do, in my book. Seems like what a parent would say to a 4 year old, "you better believe in Christ or you're gonna burn for all eternity. Eat your veggies to"



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 01:13 PM
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Your pretty close on it.
I suggest if you want to learn the view of the rapture , to go to a site that believes it and get the full picture of the belief.

THEN

weigh both sides. It is next to impossible to have a conversation based on christian beliefs at this website. No big deal since this is site is not intended for that.

get the view of the rapture at tribulationforces.com or catchingaway.com and then weigh it all and take up a point.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 01:50 PM
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Its perfectly possible to have any converstation on ATS. Why go to an off-site place? Why can't it be critically discussed here? If the ideas are sound, even if they are faith based, then what problem would anyone have with it? Or rather, why would it matter if anyone did voice a concern? Its not like this is an audible conversation, where a 'dissenter' can shout and prevent interested people from hearing.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 07:44 PM
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It can be.
But not until you are informed.
Now if you are already informed, then great. The best course is to list the 'supposed' rapture verses and explain why they are not the rapture.
That would convince me.
But if you dont know them... isnt it best to learn the argument before launching a critique of the same?

Just to make sure the intent is clear:
Im suggesting learning about it from those who believe it,
and then coming back here to talk about it. They have several "Prophecy Studies" and "Prophecy Articles" which cover the rapture

[edit on 17-5-2005 by jake1997]



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 07:50 PM
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I don't know any pre-trib rapture verses, apparently because there aren't any.

I don't understand tho, what does that have to do with answering the questions I asked?? I know my understanding of these sorts of things, and I'm not a biblical literalist, I'd like to know what the literalists think, because I am curious about their way of thinking.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
I don't know any pre-trib rapture verses, apparently because there aren't any.

I don't understand tho, what does that have to do with answering the questions I asked?? I know my understanding of these sorts of things, and I'm not a biblical literalist, I'd like to know what the literalists think, because I am curious about their way of thinking.


Unfortunatly you leave a dead end road for me. By your own words, there are no pre-trib rapture verses. Therefore, since the conclusion is done before the discussion takes place, I have little incentive to no incentive to do the discussion.

For the second paragraph, in light of the first, I suppose it should be said that the literalist takes the majority of the bible literally. The places it is not literal, it is usually explained by the bible and others it is obvious to a two year old that it is not literal. (such as the beast rising out of the sea).

This may be hard for some here to understand, but I am really not here just for the sake of idle debate that serves no purpose other then to pass time. I'd rather discuss heart felt beliefs with others to the end that we could come to agreement based on the bible. (under the assumption that most people in this section would be religious in nature)



posted on May, 18 2005 @ 02:04 AM
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I'm undecided about the rapture. I've heard it's something that a few people got wrong but I don't know for sure.

The number over 140,000 people getting taken has caught my attention. I remember I got a surprise letter in the mail one day and it stated that my name along with over 140,000 names were included on a chip courtesy of JPL and is now part of the Carl Sagan Memorial on Mars (first rover mission). Now what if we just invaded some aliens territory and they decide to strike back? The first thing they will see will be those names on that chip (if they use an electron microscope). I'm going hmmm, stories of a mass abduction (rapture) and now I might be considered part of the invading force for the aliens to capture and retaliate. If unfriendly aliens abduct me, I'll show them some
.

On a side note, I heard the rapture was all wrong and that 3 days of darkness would occur instead and wipe out everyone who was caught outside or who went outside.



posted on May, 18 2005 @ 04:22 PM
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I personally think the gentleman asked an intelligent question in is that anyway for GOD to act?

Yes, it could and should be discussed here, and no a person need not be "informed" with the Bible, etc.

It comes down to a basic point of exactly what kind of GOD is this that Christianity teaches. Is he the GOD of love of everyone, or is he the GOD or fear that also is taught.

The gentleman has a very valid point, and should not be criticized for such. What bothers me about Christianity is the "hell and damnation" part.

We are all sons and daughters of God. Would you send your child or a portion of yourself to eternal damnation or be with Satan?



posted on May, 18 2005 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
What bothers me about Christianity is the "hell and damnation" part.

Would you send your child or a portion of yourself to eternal damnation or be with Satan?



Let's say someone is told about Jesus Christ. That He died for each individual's sins and a personal acceptance from each individual is the way to escape eternal seperation from God. You can turn down this offer or accept it. You use your free will and decide not to take advantage of this free offer. How did you get to hell, did God send you or did you choose to go? God made the opportunity available to you to not go there, how could He be to blame?



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
I personally think the gentleman asked an intelligent question in is that anyway for GOD to act?

Yes, it could and should be discussed here, and no a person need not be "informed" with the Bible, etc.

It comes down to a basic point of exactly what kind of GOD is this that Christianity teaches. Is he the GOD of love of everyone, or is he the GOD or fear that also is taught.

The gentleman has a very valid point, and should not be criticized for such. What bothers me about Christianity is the "hell and damnation" part.

We are all sons and daughters of God. Would you send your child or a portion of yourself to eternal damnation or be with Satan?


This is an excellent question, why indeed. Hell was not created for people, it was created for those angelic beings that rose againt God. Noone knows for sure how Adam and Eve's live would have played out had they not disobeyed God by eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But the consequence of their actions condemmed all of humanity to spiritual death.

God did make a way out through His Son. His Son paid the penalty so that we don't have to if we are willing to belive.

Summary: God does not send people to eternal damnation. He created a way out. All you have to do to escape eternal damnation is accept his gift. Freedom of choice means that YOU choose whether you get eternal life or eternal damnation.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by darkelf

Summary: God does not send people to eternal damnation. He created a way out. All you have to do to escape eternal damnation is accept his gift. Freedom of choice means that YOU choose whether you get eternal life or eternal damnation.


That was PERFECTLY said!



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 10:52 AM
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Taken up, eh? I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet, but I believe it could very well be a actual Extraterrestrial Intervention.

Elijah and Enoch was mysteriously "taken up" as well.

A matter of interpretation of course, but I'm more at ease with this line of thinking.

It would also mean that an immaterial God doesn't exist, and that God are actually ETs, as Genesis points out "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". The literal translation of the hebrew word Elohim does not signify God but: "Those who come from the sky".



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 04:50 PM
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Here's a GREAT read that ties a few similar threads together...
www.raidersnewsupdate.com...
It's more of a second advent or "antichrist" event than "rapture"...



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