'unbeliever'

I've seen this term used regularly by some christians and I get the impression it is meant to devalue/undermind all other belief systems. The term should be 'non christian'.. why isn't this used? I'm an atheist yet I still don't feel this term applies to me.. I do believe in a 'universal energy'- I just do not believe it created the universe [ie 'god'] as it's one and the same. So who does this term apply to?

Why is being 'a believer' more applicable to christianity? Is the word used to degrade other faiths [a modern word for 'heathen'] on some level or is it just harmless slang? Does a christian god have a monopoly on faith? Has christianity conditioned our culture so much that other beliefs are considered not as legitimate? I know it's just sematics.. but language can be a very powerful thing [propaganda] even when it seems harmless.



[edit on 11-5-2005 by riley]

thread moved because predjudice against non christians is not part of a conspiracy. oh well. if anyone would like to answer my questions it would be much appreciated!

[edit on 11-5-2005 by riley]

It is from thier perspective not yours. it is just some peolpe have started using it to dehumanize and demean people who are not like them and it has developed a bad connotation the same way "Liberal" has

Summation:
1 John 5:10

Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.

In my opinion, its an interpretation thing. The word "Believer" is defined as this:
To accept as true or real
To credit with veracity
To expect or suppose

So. To believe in "universal energy" makes you a believer, correct?
How 'religion' interprets the word believer is up to them. But it doesn't make them correct.

I believe in both the Universal life i.e. we are energy and continue on after this life - and I also believe in God/Higher being, which explains the more intangible side of life i.e. love, joy, sadness, feelings etc.

Hope that isn't too hard to follow LOL

Cheers

Originally posted by Jehosephat
It is from thier perspective not yours.

Back to 'only one god' .. it's hard to accept one groups beliefs when they refuse to repect others.

it is just some peolpe have started using it to dehumanize and demean people who are not like them and it has developed a bad connotation the same way "Liberal" has

Not very 'christian'. I know it's not that bad a term.. I was just noticing how persecution devolops.. the term completely dismisses all other faiths which draws a line in the sand.

[edit on 13-5-2005 by riley]

Originally posted by sanse_nz
In my opinion, its an interpretation thing. The word "Believer" is defined as this:
To accept as true or real
To credit with veracity
To expect or suppose

So. To believe in "universal energy" makes you a believer, correct?
How 'religion' interprets the word believer is up to them. But it doesn't make them correct.

Belief is dependent on the individual.. I think they must assume all non christians are deluded.

I believe in both the Universal life i.e. we are energy and continue on after this life - and I also believe in God/Higher being, which explains the more intangible side of life i.e. love, joy, sadness, feelings etc.

Hope that isn't too hard to follow LOL

It's not hard to follow at all.. but 'higher being' suggests something elevated and therefore seperated.. couldn't universal life explain the intangible?

heck, in my opinion, ANYthing is possible. We humans are really limited in our minds. Its been stated many times over the years that we use a mere fraction of the potential that is possible within our minds. I agree with that 100%.

My definition of "God" is a pool, a centre, a huge energy force of everything that is good - tangible and intangible.

As for the christians assuming all "unbelievers" are deluded......in some cases, I think you are 100% correct, I have one of them as a sister-in-law LOL. She teaches my 6 yr old niece that my father (nieces grandad) is burning away in hell because he was agnostic. I can't condone that, under any circumstances. So now, we just don't speak bout religion.....its not worth the friction it creates.

I live each day taking each person as I find them. If they treat me well, then I consider them a "good soul" whether they are labelled "christian" or not. It is religion I have more of a problem with. Most religious people are pitiful, merely sheep following some shepherd preaching crap, they're too ignorant to know any better. As long as I can treat people as well as I can - then I am doing my best to make a peaceful world. If every human did that, we'd have no war or evil. I can break into song and dance version of "Imagine" by John Lennon now if you want! lol

Cheers

Originally posted by sanse_nz
heck, in my opinion, ANYthing is possible. We humans are really limited in our minds. Its been stated many times over the years that we use a mere fraction of the potential that is possible within our minds. I agree with that 100%.

True.. hopefully I'll live long enough to see the mysteries of the mind revealed.. I find it almost as intriguing as the mysteries of space.

My definition of "God" is a pool, a centre, a huge energy force of everything that is good - tangible and intangible.

Definitions change.. I wonder if in a thousand years from now if you a proven to be correct.. whether it would still be seen to be god or scientific fact?

As for the christians assuming all "unbelievers" are deluded......in some cases, I think you are 100% correct, I have one of them as a sister-in-law LOL.

So do I.

She teaches my 6 yr old niece that my father (nieces grandad) is burning away in hell because he was agnostic. I can't condone that, under any circumstances. So now, we just don't speak bout religion.....its not worth the friction it creates.

Agreed.. my young neice asked if I believed in god; I said no but I believe in the the energy of universe and she looked at me as though I was evil- been funny with me ever since [well I'm not going to lie to her].

I live each day taking each person as I find them. If they treat me well, then I consider them a "good soul" whether they are labelled "christian" or not.

It's a shame that most of humanity doesn't share this sentiment.

As long as I can treat people as well as I can - then I am doing my best to make a peaceful world. If every human did that, we'd have no war or evil. I can break into song and dance version of "Imagine" by John Lennon now if you want!

lol

We'll keep imagining till it happens.



[edit on 20-5-2005 by riley]

Riley, I use the words, believer, unbeliever on non-believer for clarification only. I mean no harm or disrespect. The title Christian is being used by many groups that do not adhere to the teachings of Christ or the Bible.

My definition of believer is one who believes the Bible, believes in Christ, and follows His teachings from the Bible.

Unbelievers or non-believers are obviously those who do not believe this. It is really difficult to discuss a particular group of people without using labels. It is even harder to find accurate labels especially when the definition of those labels constantly change.

Originally posted by darkelf
Riley, I use the words, believer, unbeliever on non-believer for clarification only. I mean no harm or disrespect.

Noted.. and I recognise when it is not being used in the 'bad' way and it's usually not the intention- however it is starting to become a slur rather than a definition.

It is even harder to find accurate labels especially when the definition of those labels constantly change.

But if you're just talking about all those who are not christian.. wouldn't it be easier and make more sense to just say non-christian rather than risk demeaning other faiths?

Originally posted by riley
But if you're just talking about all those who are not christian.. wouldn't it be easier and make more sense to just say non-christian rather than risk demeaning other faiths?

Not necessarily. Many who call themselves Christian behave very unchristian. Hence many Christians are calling themselves Believers to differentiate themselves from the Christians who do not believe the Bible or follow Christ. Unfortunately, many of those are now calling themselves Believers.

Christian doesn't immediately mean 'moral' anymore.. many pin labells on themselves to get the credibilty [moral high ground can power] the term assert.
The best was to differentiate to just be and live the part.. hopefully that includes not accidently painting non christians with the brush you might be trying to avoid.

Sorry if that might not make much sense.
A rose by any other name maybe?

I have seen a marked increase in derogatory discussions of "unbelievers" on ATS. I am hoping people will remember that putting us down will not elevate you above us. I certainly do not want history repeating here nor do I want to see ATS dragged through the mud again to satisfy old board vendettas.

You can't offer a hand while giving the finger.

[edit on 6-10-2008 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
the term completely dismisses all other faiths which draws a line in the sand.

this naturally occurs when someone believes they have found truth, no matter what that truth is.

if someone claims that 2+2=5 you know he is wrong. sure he has his own belief, but he is still wrong. he may argue with you. he may be able to sound convincing, but he is still wrong.

respecting another´s beliefs doesnt mean that we have to admit they are plausible.

it means not calling them an idiot and persecuting them for it.

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by riley
the term completely dismisses all other faiths which draws a line in the sand.

this naturally occurs when someone believes they have found truth, no matter what that truth is.

hmm.. actually it's just christians who say "unbeliever" where as other faiths will specify a belief. They might believe they have found truth as well but they don't dismiss or disregard all other belief systems when talking about belief and "non belief" (and I'm talking about spritual beliefs here). Muslims do say infidels sometimes however thats more like saying "non muslim" to me.

if someone claims that 2+2=5 you know he is wrong. sure he has his own belief, but he is still wrong. he may argue with you. he may be able to sound convincing, but he is still wrong.

A mathematical equation can only have one correct answer. A god cannot be proven.. is reliant on faith that it's "truth" so the answer is subjective. You cannot say someone else is wrong when they have their own proof just like you have your own proof.

respecting another´s beliefs doesnt mean that we have to admit they are plausible.

it means not calling them an idiot and persecuting them for it.

Nice of you not to call us idiots.
Calling non christians "unbeliever" is disrespecting beliefs and is used to percecute as I often see it used as a slur. By doing so you are judging it as a non belief; at least the term "non christian" does not imply other beliefs do not count. This forum especially is meant to be multicultural so respecting other beliefs is even more important.. unless you think this forum should be reserved for christians only.

btw. As I already said I am an atheist but that doesn't mean I don't believe in anything.

[edit on 7-10-2008 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
A mathematical equation can only have one correct answer. A god cannot be proven.. is reliant on faith that it's "truth" so the answer is subjective. You cannot say someone else is wrong when they have their own proof just like you have your own proof.

the faith part of it is because we simply cannot ¨see¨ god. there is a boolean answer though, either he is, or he isn´t.

just because one has to search to find him doesnt mean his existence is subjective. in the end, one of us is ¨right¨. either god exists or he doesnt.

as for proof, there are alot of things in life that have ¨proof¨ that contradicts itself. isnt that the problem with physics right now? there is proof for two exclusive trains of thought.

Nice of you not to call us idiots.

Calling non christians "unbeliever" is disrespecting beliefs and is used to percecute as I often see it used as a slur. By doing so you are judging it as a non belief; at least the term "non christian" does not imply other beliefs do not count. This forum especially is meant to be multicultural so respecting other beliefs is even more important.. unless you think this forum should be reserved for christians only.

btw. As I already said I am an atheist but that doesn't mean I don't believe in anything.

just because some christians use it as a slang doesnt mean it is. either you believe or you dont and believe in something else. simple as that.

non-believer is a person who doesnt believe.

reply to post by riley

I've seen this term used regularly by some christians and I get the impression it is meant to devalue/undermind all other belief systems.

I doubt it. I did a little google search on "unbeliever" and you have to just understand it in context and if it is being used in a discussion on Christian topic, understand it to mean someone who does not believe in Christianity.

thanks but I don't need to google it to understand the context. I see it constantly being used as a slur just in this forum. If this were exclusively a christian site you might have a point but as it stands non christians here are not "unbelievers" ..they just don't believe in christ.

[edit on 8-10-2008 by riley]

What I meant was that I used the search that is a button on the top of the page and it brings up the posts with that word in it. I did not mean I was looking up a definition.
I looked at a bunch of the posts that came up and the ones I saw were all concerning something about Christianity.
I seriously doubt anyone cares if you are an atheist or anything else. Christians get ridiculed on a regular basis for being dupes, or something.


[edit on 8-10-2008 by jmdewey60]

Originally posted by jmdewey60
I seriously doubt anyone cares if you are an atheist or anything else.

If they don't care why are non christians constantly being told they're going to hell or are immoral for being an "unbeliever"?

Christians get ridiculed on a regular basis for being dupes, or something.

I've seen this on occasional as well but I am not about to say "well I doubt that happens." :shk:
I am not asking if it happens.. I was just hoping christians who use the term "unbeliever" as a slur would reconsider doing so in future. This is an all faith forum so other beliefs should be respected and not treated as less legitamate than christianity.

[edit on 9-10-2008 by riley]