Rosicrucians

After listening to a few of our members that are Rosicrucians, I was curious what everyones thoughts on the matter were. Frankly, despite my interest in gnosticism and esotericism, I know very little about them (other than what Wikipedia tells me, reputable source .) What are some of the central tenets, beliefs, organization structure, and so on. Also, what are non-members views on the group (no I don't want to hear about the NWO and how they are also a group of reptillian pawns.)

check out this thread, its a research project that is being carried out. It contains information about different types of societies, including Rosicrucians

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Also, a search on ATS provides these links of past Rosicrucian discussions.
HTH
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Oh great, I did a search and I guess I missed that one. Thanks, I'd still be curious about others personal opinions on the Rosicrucians though.

When researching the Rosicrucians you will face two main obstacles to the truth.

1. There are hosts of groups out there claiming to be the 'real' or 'original' order. In addition, in the 17th centuary 'Rosicrcuian' become a general term to describe a certain type of thinking associated with the original manifestos, not necessarily a specific organization.

2. 90% of sources, especially the endless supply of poorly researched conspiracy psuedo-journalism that fills the internet and every new age bookstore, repeat the same surface level information without shedding any real light on what was really taught within their lodges, what there political objectives were, and how to properly understand them within the social-political context of 17th centuary Europe.

The first trace of the Rosicrucians were the manifestos that appeared in the early 17th centuary. At this point the Rosicrucians were nothing more than a small network of like-minded individuals, who utilized a brilliant strategy, one that since then has been occasionally borrowed by various far-left groups: the best way to create a desired organization is to act like it already exists.

Imagine its 1620's Paris. You resent the monarchy, the Vatican, and all the evil, corruption and opression of feudalism. I meet you and inform you i share your beliefs and that im part of an underground movement to change it all. But then I inform you I'm the only member, and if you join you'll be the second! Of course your gonna dismiss me. If i convince you that im part of a massive underground movement with agents in high places around the world, in posession of fantastic magickal powers and ancient knowledge the Vatican doesn't want you to have, your response might be different. The manifestos were also intended to inspire independent action by people everywhere who might be inspired by there message.

Essentially, the Rosicrucians were bourgeois liberals, rebels of the educated and urban aristocracy, who opposed the monarchy, Vatican, and oppression of the feudalist system. Their inspiration came from certain then-extremely-taboo occultism (cabbalah, astrology, alchemy, etc.) which in their view would also play a role in the type of future society they envisioned. Whether they had magickal/telepathic powers or, to take the interpetatin of Louis Pauwels, advanced technology thought to not have been invented until our modern age, is open to more speculation.

In the following decades as the Rosicrcuians grew they proved to be less radical and less comitted to real social change than the original manifestos, demonstrating its essentially aristocratic social base.

Im a Rosicrucian (AMORC) and I would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

"the best way to create a desired organization is to act like it already exists. "

They say the most likely to succeed conspiracy is the one that is hardest to believe is true.

The reasoning is quite straightforward. If people consider it impossible that a conspiracy exists, then it has already succeeded.

When you believe that the knowledge and methods of the Rosicrucians always belonged to a well-meaning group, that wishes to enlighten people within a framework of an oppressive society, the same has occurred.

Which came first, though, the hidden network to enlighten, or the oppressive society? Society has been oppressive now for atleast 1600 years.

Perhaps you think I have a more positive view of the Rosicrucians than I do. I do believe the intention of the authors of the original manifestos were noble...just bourgeois. In time as the Rosicrucians grew elements with different, reactionary political orientation evolved, which is inevitible with any fundamentally bourgeois social movement, especially one whose basis was not in concrete political ideology but occultism.

Do you believe the Rosicrucians were/are part of some kind of evil Luciferian conspiracy? If so, I'd like to know what you base these beliefs on.

Human society has been predominantly oppressive and patriarichal for about 6000 years. Are you familiar with the works of Riane Eisler, Maria Mies or Terrence Mckenna?  

ASE, I know nothing about the Rosicurians, other than that they are esoteric, possibly work with 'magic', and might be named after the term 'Rosey Cross'.

How much did I get wrong in that little sentence!

What attacted you to AMORC. Why this AMORC as opposed to the other Rosicurian groups that apparently are out there, and how have you interests changed in the interveneing time?

12 000 years ago, Bears were 20 feet long.

There were mammoths, bigass lions, the works. Everything was supersized. But you're telling me they were hunted to extinction? Science tries to say it wasn't due to a change in their eating habits, but there used to be much larger quantities of these large animals even without humans hunting them!

What killed them was probably a more dramatic change in climate.

Regardless, 4000 years ago, the Sahara desert had only BEGUN to form! It was still a massive savannah plain.

So to say that mankind has been the same for 6000 years, well, I think it is a little narrow-sighted of man's recent turmoils.

And to say Patriarchal, well, how about you look at which Royals have had the longest and most INFLUENTIAL reigns (even if you don't count Elizabeth II, you would have to count her mother), its all women!

Are you suggesting the most powerful person in the country could not improve the situation for women (in an entire freakin' empire!) at all, because that would be a poor excuse to call yourself a leader, don't you think?

Its safe to say Class society was instituted on purpose.

What is more difficult to understand is to what extent the fall of the Empire and the beginning of the Dark Ages was planned. Surely the mercenaries needed to be gathered, convinced, satisfied along the way, and this organization could not have been as accidental as history would have it.

Also, that Christianity spread shortly before this occurred raises more alarms as to what exactly were to be the TOOLS of oppression for the next 1600 years, dividing the sexes, diving people into classes, and then pitting 'science' versus religion in the final 1/4 of this current cycle.

The sexes are divided by being told there exists NO class difference, only a difference in how 'the Sexes' treat each other.

The Rosicrucians have roots far deeper than themselves, if you wish to use a tree analogy. The symbol is effectively veiled goddes worship.

Need I state explicitly what the rose might visually represent?


[edit on 18-5-2005 by akilles]

Very interesting book (that I read ages ago and really need to have another look at) is the "Rosicrucian Enlightenment" by France Yates. Talks about the origins of the society and the influence on it's writings by people such a John Dee and Robert Fludd.

Problem is that it's a bit dated so I probably need to read some more recent (serious) investigations.

Originally posted by Nygdan
ASE, I know nothing about the Rosicurians, other than that they are esoteric, possibly work with 'magic', and might be named after the term 'Rosey Cross'.

How much did I get wrong in that little sentence!

What attacted you to AMORC. Why this AMORC as opposed to the other Rosicurian groups that apparently are out there, and how have you interests changed in the interveneing time?

Your first sentence is correct as far as im concerned. I joined AMORC because iv had an interest in the esoteric 'sciences' since I was very young, but it was only a few years ago that I started to persue this interest. I read a few books on phsychic development, and powers of the mind etc. but none of them satisfied the urge. I was reading Nostradamus the final prophecies and I read that he (Nostradamus) was a Rosicrucian, along with many other well know historical figures. I then looked into Rosicrucianism and read the Mastery of Life, and also a book called Wisdom of the Mystic Masters, which was written by a Rosicrucian and I decided that I could learn what I wanted to learn through AMORC.
Im not aware of the attitudes of AMORC towards other Rosicrucian groups.
My interests have not changed since my affiliation with AMORC, but my attitudes have changed dramatically, and my life has changed too.
By the way Akilles, no disrespect, but what on earth are you talking about?

I never said "mankind has been the same for 6000 years." But approximately 6000 years ago there was a major shift in the social evolution of humanity from a cooperative/matristic model to a patriarichal/predatory model, brought about by Kurgan expansion and assisted, some one would argue, by certain major natural disasters that occured at the time and desertification in Africa.

Your perception as to the reality and scope of patriarchy misses the big picture. Patriarchy is a social-political-economic system based on the exploitation of women. Its been the dominant model on earth for the last 5000-6000 years, and it came about when neolithic Kurgan men discovered (or were taught) they could live fatter by enslaving the women of their tribe and the women of other tribes. It was the basis for the first "civilizations" (Sumer, Egypt, Greece) and at the core of feudalism and capitalism. Today, the big secret that no one wants to talk about is that this whole global capitalist economy is based on the mass exploitation of third world women workers. Thats how you have tropical fruit from coast rica in your supermarket, thats why you can afford the keyboard your typing on and the monitor your staring at, thats how all these fat north americans have their SUVs and P2s and DVD players.

I'll post some more detailed information on these subjects later.

But again, i'd like to know the basis of your convictions about the Rosicrucians.

Originally posted by Modulok
I never said "mankind has been the same for 6000 years." But approximately 6000 years ago there was a major shift in the social evolution of humanity from a cooperative/matristic model to a patriarichal/predatory model, brought about by Kurgan expansion and assisted, some one would argue, by certain major natural disasters that occured at the time and desertification in Africa.

Your perception as to the reality and scope of patriarchy misses the big picture. Patriarchy is a social-political-economic system based on the exploitation of women. Its been the dominant model on earth for the last 5000-6000 years, and it came about when neolithic Kurgan men discovered (or were taught) they could live fatter by enslaving the women of their tribe and the women of other tribes. It was the basis for the first "civilizations" (Sumer, Egypt, Greece) and at the core of feudalism and capitalism. Today, the big secret that no one wants to talk about is that this whole global capitalist economy is based on the mass exploitation of third world women workers. Thats how you have tropical fruit from coast rica in your supermarket, thats why you can afford the keyboard your typing on and the monitor your staring at, thats how all these fat north americans have their SUVs and P2s and DVD players.

I'll post some more detailed information on these subjects later.

But again, i'd like to know the basis of your convictions about the Rosicrucians.

Who are you talking to? What has this got to do with Rosicrucianism, and what are you talking about?

I'm talking to Akilles. Our discussion did drift somewhat from the original subject of Rosicrucians, is that okay with you? Should have I asked your permission first?

Its not my problem if your ignorant to the subject matter Im speaking of. I already mentioned some authors. Or do your Rosicrucian masters decide what you can and can't learn about now?

Originally posted by Modulok
I'm talking to Akilles. Our discussion did drift somewhat from the original subject of Rosicrucians, is that okay with you? Should have I asked your permission first?

Its not my problem if your ignorant to the subject matter Im speaking of. I already mentioned some authors. Or do your Rosicrucian masters decide what you can and can't learn about now?

Theres no need to be rude, I was just confused as to the relevence of your post. But now you have shown me that you are not the sort of person I wish to hold a discussion with, so I will leave it at that.
I see by the amount of posts that you are new to these forums so I will be the bigger man and say........ I apologise if my post offended you, I was genuinely confused by what you posted in this thread, so I asked you 3 simple questions.

Who are you talking to? What has this got to do with Rosicrucianism, and what are you talking about?

3 equally simple answers could have rectified the situation, but I expected too much.

relax man, im just [having a little fun] with you.


[removed vulgarity, please don't curse - nygdan]

[edit on 19-5-2005 by Nygdan]