Originally posted by Omniscient
So, no one actually has unlimited access to all TS documents? It's just that the people with TS access levels can know what they need to know from TS things?

That's correct. All anyone needs to know is whatever it is in which they are directly involved.

For example:

If a UFO were to crash somewhere in the southwest USA and there were alien bodies recovered, and one of them was alive...

The bodies would be segregated, a few doctors would perform autopsies on the dead ones, but they would never be told that there was one left alive. The live one would be dealt with by another group of people. They would probe his brain, try to interrogate him and get information from him. Then they would kill him with invasive procedures, possibly an anal probe.

The vehicle would be dismantled into its parts and shuffled off quickly to different military bases for the parts to be studied independently from each other by different groups of engineers. Some would work on propulsion, some on navigation, some on life support, computer systems, air conditioning, the in-dash stereo, etc....

This way, no one person or group of people would have full knowledge of what there actually was, which sets up the conditions for a little policy term under which no one ever is held accountable or responsible.

This term is "plausible deniability". Learn it, love it, live it!

[edit on 13-5-2005 by DeltaChaos]

I see...but who is the person that actually sends all of this stuff to different people. Who is the one that decides where it goes. And if he does, then wouldn't he have knowledge of everything?

Just thought i'd post a copy of the letter to congress.



Office of the Press Secretary
January 30, 2003

Message to the Congress of the United States

Consistent with section 6001(a) of the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA) (the "Act"), as amended, 42 U.S.C. 6961(a), notification is hereby given that on September 13, 2002, I issued Presidential Determination 2002-30 (copy enclosed) and thereby exercised the authority to grant certain exemptions under section 6001(a) of the Act.

Presidential Determination 2002-30 exempted the United States Air Force's operating location near Groom Lake, Nevada, from any Federal, State, interstate, or local hazardous or solid waste laws that might require the disclosure of classified information concerning that operating location to unauthorized persons. Information concerning activities at the operating location near Groom Lake has been properly determined to be classified, and its disclosure would be harmful to national security. Continued protection of this information is, therefore, in the paramount interest of the United States.

The determination was not intended to imply that, in the absence of a Presidential exemption, RCRA or any other provision of law permits or requires the disclosure of classified information to unauthorized persons. The determination also was not intended to limit the applicability or enforcement of any requirement of law applicable to the Air Force's operating location near Groom Lake except those provisions, if any, that might require the disclosure of classified information.

GEORGE W. BUSH
THE WHITE HOUSE,
January 29, 2003.

# # #

This is the Letter to Congress:

Presidential Letter to Congress

Text of a Letter from the President to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President of the Senate

January 30, 2002

Dear Mr. Speaker: (Dear Mr. President

Consistent with section 6001(a) of the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA) (the "Act"), as amended, 42 U.S.C. 6961(a), notification is hereby given that on September 18, 2001, I issued Presidential Determination 2001-27 (copy attached) and thereby exercised the authority to grant certain exemptions under section 6001(a) of the Act.

Presidential Determination 2001-27 exempted the United States Air Force's operating location near Groom Lake, Nevada, from any Federal, State, interstate, or local hazardous or solid waste laws that might require the disclosure of classified information concerning that operating location to unauthorized persons. Information concerning activities at the operating location near Groom Lake has been properly determined to be classified, and its disclosure would be harmful to national security. Continued protection of this information is, therefore, in the paramount interest of the United States.

The determination was not intended to imply that, in the absence of a Presidential exemption, RCRA or any other provision of law permits or requires the disclosure of classified information to unauthorized persons. The determination also was not intended to limit the applicability or enforcement of any requirement of law applicable to the Air Force's operating location near Groom Lake except those provisions, if any, that might require the disclosure of classified information.

Sincerely,

GEORGE W. BUSH

That link is interesting, I never know they tested the U-2 prototype at Area 51. I never thought the CIA would be courteous enough to release pictures either.

If the current president is a part of the illuminati ( he is ), that doesn't mean he has control of all bases.

The president has superiors. The men behind the glamour. The real Boss's. Any president of America in power is just a puppet. But thats just my opinion.

Yeah, I agree. But, even though he has superiors, you think he would at least be able to see it being part of the Illuminati.

Maybe this is off topic, but say someone wanted to become one of the scientists who analyzes the downed spacecraft, or even one of those who develops crafts such as the TR-3B. How would you get to that point?

My guess in that they recruit scienctist and staff personal. The goverment, military or whoever signs the payroll does the recruiting as in they come to you asking about you joining the team, not the other way around.

Im guessing that they recruit people that are very good in thier fields of study but have not yet made a name for themselves. The reason for this would be so they will not be missed by thier respective scientific community when they start woking at Area-51 or wherever. Someone that's not in the public eye.

[edit on 15/5/2005 by SportyMB]

That's cool, I always wondered how these people were chosen, whether they were born into it, or signed up, or had been working in the government all their lives or what.

Originally posted by SportyMB
My guess in that they recruit scienctist and staff personal. The goverment, military or whoever signs the payroll does the recruiting as in they come to you asking about you joining the team, not the other way around.

Im guessing that they recruit people that are very good in thier fields of study but have not yet made a name for themselves. The reason for this would be so they will not be missed by thier respective scientific community when they start woking at Area-51 or wherever. Someone that's not in the public eye.
[edit on 15/5/2005 by SportyMB]

Most of the Scientists who work at Groom Lake are civilian employes of the Defense Department. They come from orginizations like DARPA! These people start out working on secret and top secret projects at other places across the USA. As their clearace is upgraded they move on to more sensitive projects in different locations. Eventually, they end up a Groom Lake, working on really secret "Black Projects". These people are assign to work at Groom Lake or simular places!

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

Originally posted by DeltaChaos The bodies would be segregated, a few doctors would perform autopsies on the dead ones, but they would never be told that there was one left alive. The live one would be dealt with by another group of people. They would probe his brain, try to interrogate him and get information from him. Then they would kill him with invasive procedures, possibly an anal probe

I know its just an example but why would they kill an Extra Terrestrial if one were ever captured ? surely better to keep them alive, to attempt to learn from them, possibly to educate them about our planet to hope to develop our relationship with what would obviously be a being of vastly superior intellect and technological knowledge ?
Surely that is preferable and more beneficial than your rather brutal, tortuous and archaic view of how to deal with anything that we dont understand ?! Even if the order came to terminate the ET, surely the scientists in whom we entrust the defence of our nations and put such faith as to their ingenuity could find a more humane way of killing this interstellar traveller than shoving a rather large metal prodder up its arse!?


Anyway, back to the main subject of the tread. I would have guessed that there are a small group of people that know most of what is going on. Im not talking about the President, or the elected officials, my guess instead would be a group of highly ranked service people drawn from all the major sevices, mixed with representatives from such agencies as the CIA, NSA etc etc. The benefits gained from the sharing of information between the various projects would far outweigh the risks.

Lets take DeltaChaos' rather extreme example. There happens to be a meeting of this group, and one of the agenda items happens to be tabled from a high ranking Navy official. It seems that the experimental carrierborne spaceplane that they are working on is having problems with the dissipation of heat generated by the extreme operational parameters of this new and revolutionary craft. The Navy rep confessses to the group that without a breakthrough, billions of dollars of research are going to be wasted and their program will be set back thirty years. After the formal meeting is adjourned, he is appraoched by an Airforce Official who mentions that a 'project' run by his arm of the services just happens to have 'developed' a new heat coating (taken from the alien craft) which they are planning to use for certain projects. The Airforce official adds that certain caveats are attached to the use of this coating, it must be kept 'hidden' form the general public and that it must be given a rather boring and ordinary name. All of a sudden, the Navy's project is back on track, and the defence of the nation is assured.

I realise that this is a big leap of faith and that it doesnt cater for the massive inter service rivalries that do exist, but the benefits the defence of the nation as a whole could be immeasurable !

[edit on 16-5-2005 by Argus]

[edit on 16-5-2005 by Argus]

I must agree with you on one thing Argus, why would we dispose of an alien. In my eyes, it would be much smarter to try to find ways to communicate and reason with it. It seems that killing it would be the kind of thing to cause a hostile invasion from aliens. Also, is it possible that aliens are not only contained in area 51, but also help run it, and do tests and experiments just like us?

NEED TO KNOW ONLY: These are the four words that form the heart of our(the USA) system for managing all classified information! Let me explain how getting a clearance works:

1. You take a Job that involves handling classified info (let's say you will be workin as an engineer on a new spy plane.)

2. Someone from the Defense Security Service(DSS) will be assign to conduct your clearance investigation.

3. The investigator will run a background check on you. This will involve the fallowing:
A) A National Agency Check- All law enforcement agencies in the US and US territories will be contacted to see if you have ever had any felony convictions.

B) Character Review- Family members, friends, former employers, and community members will be interview to see what your personality is like: Are you shy? Do you like to drink? Are you reliable? ect.

C) Polygraph- You are usually given a polygraph (Lie Detector) test.

D) Pshcological Testing- They do this to make sure you aren't suffering from a mental illness and that you can remain mentally and emotionally stable under high stress levels.

E) Fingerprinting- They put your fingerprints in the National Database.

4. Final Review! The DSS will sit down with your employer and discuss what they learned from your clearance review process. based on the results your employer and the DSS will decide if you should be granted a clearance or not

If you are granted a Security Clearance, you will be asked to sign a security agreement. Once you sign the agreement, you will be issued your security badge. Then you will have to attend a security briefing. After the security breifing, you will be briefed on Exactly what you need to know to do your job, and Nothing else. (NEED TO KNOW ONLY!)

In a nutshell, that is about how the US system works!

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

Good answer

Someone from the Defense Security Service(DSS) will be assign to conduct your clearance investigation

I thought DSS (which is part of DOS, the agents are DOS) only handles background checks for State Dept and that DOD, DOE etc...are responsible for thier people? Im probably wrong on this...you sound like you might know the deal on this


[edit on 20/5/2005 by SportyMB]

The Defense Security Service (DSS) is a civilian component of the DoD, and is responsible for investigations and security clearances for most people, military and civilian, who hold a security clearance through the DoD.

The two types of investigations that DSS typically use are the National Agency Check (NAC), and the Single-Scope Background Investigation (SSBI). NACs are typically used for persons requiring access at the Secret (or below) level. Sometimes NACs are performed on individuals in the government (or in the employ of the government) who do not actually hold security clearances, but have sensitive positions, or jobs that require a degree of trust. The NAC is comprised (mostly) of database checks, a credit check, and other local files check. When a person gets their "first time ever" NAC, sometimes personal references, jobs, and home addresses will be run down manually. The SSBI is used for personnel requiring access to Top Secret information, or access to SAP or SCI data. It is comprised of all the components of a NAC, plus additional manual checks and interviews. NACs are updated once ever ten years, SSBIs are updated once every 5 years.

Polygraphs are only required by those persons who will have access to intelligence information (SCI), and usually only by certain user agencies (CIA, NRO, NSA). Most people in the DoD who do not work for these agencies yet have access to SCI do not have to take a polygraph, but they must be willing to sign a statement saying that they would be willing if asked. Access to SAP information only requires a polygraph if the government data owner requires it, and that usually doesn't happen. However, the poly agreement must still be signed.

Pyschological interviews and/or tests are not part of any clearance process that I am aware of. If you indicate on your clearance paperwork that you have in the past or are currently seeing a mental health professional, you will be required sign a medical release form authorizing the government investigators to see your medical records, and to allow the investigators to speak to your doctor about your condition.

The only people in the DoD who do not get their security clearances issued by DSS is those persons who are employed by NSA, who have their own separate clearance processing branch. Once you are cleared via NSA, however, that data is shared with DSS, so that an NSA employee may freely "move about" the DoD community.

Thanks...you pretty much sumed it all up for me

I confused DSS for DS...defense Security Services for Diplomatic Security, which is DoS......

Thank you ghost, your post really helped me understand how the system works in whole.

Originally posted by Pyros
The Defense Security Service (DSS) is a civilian component of the DoD, and is responsible for investigations and security clearances for most people, military and civilian, who hold a security clearance through the DoD.

The only people in the DoD who do not get their security clearances issued by DSS is those persons who are employed by NSA, who have their own separate clearance processing branch. Once you are cleared via NSA, however, that data is shared with DSS, so that an NSA employee may freely \"move about\" the DoD community.

How right you are! The NSA does it own clearences becuase they deal with two of the most sensitive areas of security: Crytography(Making and cracking Codes) and Counterintelligence. Also, Most Clearances are updated once every 5 years, the NSA updates the clearance of it's empoyees annually.

FUN FACT: Sensitive Compatrmentalized Information (SCI) is not a single clearance, but a family of related clearances. SCI includes the fallowing clearances(this isn\'t the whole list): Counterintelligence, Cryptographic, Internal Security, General(for NSA employees who don't have sensitive jobs(EX: Food Service, Housekeeping, Medical Staff) but work in places like Fort Meade or FANX (A small NSA facility near BWI airport).

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

[edit on 25-5-2005 by ghost]

there people higher then the illuminati!!! Nine Unknown men