Area 51 and TOP SECRET access levels?

Just out of curiousity, even though this might be the wrong place to post it...I've heard that the President himself does not have a high enough clearance level to enter top secret facilities such as Area - 51 and S4. This contradicts things I have heard about the Presidents being part of the Illuminati and them having total control over the base. I was just wondering if anyone has information about people such as the President are allowed to enter bases like Area - 51 and S4.

I've read somewhere that since the creation of area 51 only 2 Presidents have ever visited it: JFK and Bush sr. About JFK's visit (I think this was reported by one of the Secret Service agents who was with him this day) it was said that it was a total mess: Area 51 agents told him they did not reckognize his authority. JFK had to enter by force and threat them to start a shooting between Secret Service agents and Area 51 militaries if they did not allow him but finally he managed to enter with no violence.

That doesn't sound right. They probably don't go there because:

A. Running the US takes up most of your spare time.

B. He doesn't have a need to know about a lot of the details.

I can't imagine a U.S. president visiting a place like Area 51, they would lose their "plausible denyability" if they did. If I remember right, then the President's National Security Advisor is the one who decides what and when the President knows about ops/facilities with high secret and top secret/need to know clearances.

Actually it's funny because the president can be told by the Natl. Sec. Advisor that for his own good (ability to deny knowledge of possible illegal acts), he doesn't get access to Area 51.

A president can put out an Executive Order pertaining to A-51 like Clinton did during the lawsuit with the sick workers, but still have no access to the place. Same for Bush, he wrote an Exec. Order maintaining the national security status of the site but he can't go near it.

As for Bush Sr., it's possible he could have visited the place when He was CIA director in the mid seventies, as the CIA kept it's SR-71 and U-2 programs based out of A-51, not to mention that's about the time the stealth program started. He may have gone there as Pres. when the B-2 was demo'd for the Joint Cheifs and select Congress members, but if a place like S-4 exists then it's doubtful he would have visited it.

Here is a link to a copy of the memo Bush wrote exempting A-51 from having to comply with environmental laws.

Presidential Determination on Classified Information Concerning the Air Force's Operating Location Near Groom Lake, NV

www.spaceref.com...

Pretty crazy, he can exempt it from the law, but he can't go there and check it out for himself.

id be pissed if i was president n culdent visit the spot.
who knows tho. maybe some have, but i think its very doubtful

It is all about need-to-know. A security clearance is only the first step towards accessing classified information.

While the president may be the command-in-chief and chief executive, he does not have a need-to-know for all type and categories of classified information. For example:

Lets say there is a deep undercover agent working in the Ministry of Defense in Iran, and his name is Mohammad Aziz. This man, through the use of surrepticious listening devices, discovers that the Iranian government is planning on testing a new nuclear-capable MRBM next week. This information is immediately transmitted by Aziz to the CIA, who includes it in the next day's PDB.

Now, all the PDB will say is that the Iranians are planning a launch, as confirmed by "intelligence assets". The president has no need to know the name of Aziz, what he does, where he works, or how he obtained that information. It is not relavent to the president's job, or his decision making process. The identity of Aziz and the particulars of his work is highly-classified intelligence in of itself, and only a few people at the CIA has knowledge of that information, because they must in order to process Aziz's intelligence. The presindet has no need-to-know about Aziz, nor will he ever, UNLESS, for some political reason, it becomes necessary for the president to know that information.

There is no such thing as a "master" security clearance. And while some presidents may have visited Groom Lake, whether or not they had access to the classified programs being tested there is a completely different story.

Well.. after that law suite with a woman's husband disintigrating after working at A51. Clintin's then Sec Defence announced on the site the site exists. I suppose opening some doors to compensation to the deceasts family.

So I suggest an American President has access to any base he's been made aware of.

Dallas

President himself does not have a high enough clearance level to enter top secret facilities such as Area - 51 and S4

Top Sec*ret is the highest level of clearance there is, in the US at least.
However, there is a thing called "need to know" which pretty much translates....."if you're not on the access roster..you're not coming in".

Just cause someone has a TS does mean they can access and view anything at TS and below. They do have to have reason. This is really relaxed with most secr*et and confident*ial material. But with TS it is strictly enforced....and with TS there are many different types of compartments and sections that require approval before entrance.

Originally posted by Pyros
It is all about need-to-know. A security clearance is only the first step towards accessing classified information.

While the president may be the command-in-chief and chief executive, he does not have a need-to-know for all type and categories of classified information.

Great post Pyros. You also have to really look at the compartmented nature of Top Secret classifications. Isn't the National Security Advisor the only person in the Government who can access any and all Top Secret materials at will? Maybe I am misinformed. But what knowledge could a Natl. Sec. Adv. be walking around with?

As for clearances at A-51, I'll bet it'd be a real pain if you wanted to just get up and stretch your legs and go for a walk. They have got to keep you monitored tightly to keep you from wandering into a more restricted area. I'll bet they even remodel the work areas constantly to keep people from telling some one else exactly where to go to find certain projects.

Yes, that's interesting. I'd probably be very mad if I went through all of the trouble to be President and couldn't even find out our countries secrets. :-/

Another thing...

Originally posted by Dallas
Well.. after that law suite with a woman's husband disintigrating after working at A51.
Dallas

What is the story behind this, I've never heard of a law suit of a man that disintegrated after working at area 51..any links or story?

Yes that's where the stoy began and the Judge was sworn to secrecy on reasons the Dept Of Defence didn't have to comply with either the facts of the toxic chemicals that killed the man and others or announce the Base existed.
In, I believe 1997, the Sec of Def announced the Base existed and it opened the door to compensation for the families of the workers who became exposed to toxic chemicals at A51.

Dallas

Wow, that's interesting. I thought there would of been more publicity on something like that even though they swore them to secrecy. Or maybe there was, and I just didn't hear.

Suck on this:


1C or 2C - Federal
3C or 4C - Federal
5C or 6C - Federal
ADP 1
ADP 2
CIA Lifestyle Polygraph
COMSEC
CONFIDENTIAL
Cosmic Top Secret - ATOMAL/CTSA
DEA Clearance
DISA
DISCO
DOD
DOD Lifestyle Polygraph
DOD Secret
DOD - Top Secret SSBI
DOE - Nuclear
DOE - C
DOE - L
DOE - Q
DOJ � NACI
DOJ - Sensitive
DOJ - Secret
DOJ - Top Secret
EBI - Extended Background Investigation
FAA Clearance
FBI
Foreign Government Information
Industrial Clearance
Inactive Clearance
Inactive Top Secret Crypto
Interim Secret
Interim Top Secret
Interim TS / SCI
IRS - MBI
ISSA / CISSP
MBI (IRS)
NAC
NASA
NATO
NATO Secret
NSA Lifestyle Polygraph
Position of Public Trust 1C
Position of Public Trust 2C
Position of Public Trust 3C
Position of Public Trust 4C
Position of Public Trust 5C
Position of Public Trust 6C
Polygraph - Counterintelligence
Polygraph - Full Scope / Lifestyle
SAR
S - Secret
Secret COMSEC
Secret SBI
SIDA - Secured Identification Defense Area
SAP - Special Access Programs
SBI - Special Background Investigation
SCI - Special Compartmented Intelligence
SSBI - Single Scope Background Inv.
Technology
TS - Top Secret
Top Secret-Crypto
Top Secret-Crypto SCI / TK / G / HCS-P
Top Secret-Final / Crypto / Polygraph
Top Secret-SCI / SBI
Top Secret-SCI / HSC
Top Secret-SCI / SI / TK
Top Secret-SCI / SI / TK / G / B
Top Secret-SCI / SI / TK / G / HCS
Top Secret-SCI / SIOP
Top Secret-SCI / SSBI
Top Secret-SBI-TS/SBI
Top Secret-CISP-TS/CISP
Top Secret-ISSA-TS/ISSA
Top Secret-SAP-TS/SAP
Top Secret-SCI-CI polygraph-TS/SCI/CI Poly
Top Secret-SCI-Full/Scope Lifestyle-TS/SCI Lifestyle Poly
Top Secret-SCI-TS/SCI
Top Secret-SSBI-TS/SSBI
Top Secret-SCI /SSBI / SI / TK
Top Secret-SCI / TK / G / HCS / CI Poly
Top Secret-SCI / TK / G / Lifestyle Poly
Top Secret-SCI / SSBI / CI Poly
Top Secret-SI / TK / B / +
Top Secret-SSBI / CI Poly
Top Secret-SSBI / SCI / TK / G / HCS
Top Secret-SSBI / Lifestyle Poly
Top Secret-SSBI / SCI
Top Secret-SSBI / SCI/ SI / TK / G
Top Secret-SSBI / SCI / SI / TK / G / B / HCS
Top Secret-SSBI / SCI / TK / HCS
Top Secret-SSBI / SCI-B
Top Secret-EBI
Top Secret-SCI - SI / TK / G / HCS / I / P
Top Secret-CISP - TS / CISP
Top Secret-ISSA - TS / ISSA
Top Secret-SAP - TS / SAP
Top Secret-SCI - CI Poly - TS / SCI / CI Poly
Top Secret-SCI - Full / Scope Lifestyle - TS / SCI Lifestyle
Top Secret-SCI - TS / SCI
Top Secret-SSBI - SCI / TK / B / HCS / CI - Poly
Top Secret-SSBI - TS / SSBI
US Citizen
US Customs
US Treasury Clearance
USPS
VR
Yankee Fire
Yankee White

See the thread here

Oh but there was! Only the whole world knew it existed but American Workers suffered and died and some of their families protested and eventually Clinton's Def Sec came forward. Look into the facts and find out the details. Certainly I have no reason to give false info here on ATS.

Dallas

The stuff listed by deltachaos are just different variations of the 3 basic clearances....Confidential, secret and TS...


They are just indentifiers to indentify what a person has...
and designations for what type of people can access the info

THEY ARE NOT ACTAUL CLEARANCE LEVELS

EXAMPLE: Top Secret-SSBI / Lifestyle Poly
This person has a TS, they have had a single scope background investigation done on them (SSBI) and they have had a ploygraph done.

Top Secret-SCI / SBI:
This person has a TS, this person has access to SCI - Special Compartmented Intelligence and they have had a single background investigation done on them.

DOD - Top Secret SSBI
This persons clearance has been granted through the DOD.....TS SSBI bla bla bla

Samething for DOE, DOJ, DOS and all the other 3 digits out there.

Interim secret and TS:
Interim is only a temp clearance until thiers gets approved.

Like I said before.....there is only three levels of security

Conf, Secret and TS.



[edit on 12/5/2005 by SportyMB]

What Sporty said is a good explanation of the terms. The list is still cool.

I had a Secret/COMSEC and a Secret/CRYPTO when I was in. As a recruiter I had a Confidential/EBI for contractors.

The most important term to remember in this discussion is not Secret or Top Secret, but compartmentalized. This is the mechanism by which secrets are fragmented, concealed, or buried.

Hey DC where did you find that list at....is it on the web, I'd like to check it out.

The most important term to remember in this discussion is not Secret or Top Secret, but compartmentalized. This is the mechanism by which secrets are fragmented, concealed, or buried

Yup...this is where the "need to know" is factored in and this is what determines who can see what.

Originally posted by SportyMB
Hey DC where did you find that list at....is it on the web, I'd like to check it out.

It's from an old thread here. A pretty good discussion about it, too. I put the link to it at the bottom of the list I posted.

So, no one actually has unlimited access to all TS documents? It's just that the people with TS access levels can know what they need to know from TS things?