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Will Islam Mellow?

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posted on May, 10 2005 @ 07:23 AM
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Seems to me islam is still at that stage christianity was at 200 years ago (there is no other god, you must believe, death to non-believers, everything's justified as long as god's on your side etc etc)

Most thinking 'christian' countries now see christianity as just a religion, not a blueprint for how to behave / justification for any action (although there's one country that's still sailing close to the wind!).

So christianity mellowed, evolved and stopped causing (as much) death & misery - will islam? And if so how long will it take?

R




posted on May, 10 2005 @ 07:57 AM
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hi CTID....

Christianity has not mellowed nor has it EVOLVED .....to say this, is to say that God has changed and is changing with the times....when this happens then we'yre all finished...In Revelation the last Epoch of the Church is LUKEWARM...God sees this as wrong and doesn't think much of it.....


The Church that Christ set up will always remain truthful and without CHANGE right up until the end of times...

God is the same Yesterday... today and Tomorrow ......

Christ is Risen...

IX helen....



posted on May, 11 2005 @ 12:17 PM
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Well said Helen,

Amazing to me what men come up with by logic and reason. CTID's logic and reason follows the pattern of the Pharisees. It looks good on paper. It just doesnt hold up.

Suggest very strongly that CTID learn what the Islamic doctrine is ..called

"The Sword of Islam" and what it means when they say "May the Sword of Islam rest upon the neck of the Indifel" This is standard Islam..standard doctrine. True Islam is "Jihad"....anything else is watered down Islam.
Also suggest that CTID and others find out what "Shirq"means in Islam.

Furthermore ..under this doctrine of the "Sword of Islam"...Islam was invading Europe in 700AD.and was stopped by Charles Martel....in the Battle of Tours in 732AD. This is three hundred years before the crusades.
Amazing what people ignore..in history.

Islam under the mullahs and teachers..the "faithful" is spread by the sword...this has never changed. Within Islam anyone who leaves Islam can be killed...for leaving. This is not known by those outside Islam. You become a Infidel by leaving and in killing a infidel one engages in Jihad and can go immediately to paradise when one dies.

Christianity is never spread by the sword....any organization which uses this practice to spread Christianity is a counterfit..since there is no new testament instruction to do so...this should clear up any debate as to what is and is not a new testament church. This is why understanding counterfits is very important and often missing from the logic and understanding by both Christians and unbelievers.

Suggest very strongly ..a book titled "Islam and Terrorism" by Mark Gabriel.

Mark Gabriel is a converted Muslim Iman ..and lives under the threat of death .under the Sword of Islam for converting to Christianity. Mark Gabriel has the equivalent of a Phd ..in Islamic studies from Al Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt. Al Ahzar university is where many of the more radical muslim scholars have been trained. Any muslim who converts ..especially to Christianity ...this is not done lightly..as they live constantly under a penalty of death at the hands of Islam/Jihad ...this conversion is not done lightly. This is not known by the bulk of Christians. They havent a clue.
And furthermore this will never be taught to the public on the news media which is "looking out for you ".

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on May, 12 2005 @ 01:51 PM
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Very scary answers. You guys worry me.

Helen / Tom it's only a book written (many times) by men. If you believe every word presumably you agree with Leviticus 19:19 and that Noah actually built his ark etc etc.

'Christianity is never spread by the sword' - are you for real? What about the Spanish Inquisition? that was my point they're just as extreme as christians were a couple of centuries ago.

As it 'appens there was an article about this lady on BBC Newsnight last night

www.muslim-refusenik.com...

I think this is positive sign that Islam may start to mellow and become more benign. It's a start.



posted on May, 12 2005 @ 07:40 PM
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Hmmmmm!!!! You are not very fast with the t hinking apparatus are you CTID. Suggest you check out some of my other posts here and in some of the other boards on ATS.
So many people like to use the Crusades and Inquesition as the benchmark representing Christianity. Talk about intelligence running amok.

The facts are CTID..the standards for the operation of Church and Church members are found in the New Testament. No where in the New Testament do you find autorization for a Crusade or a Inquesition.

Simple logic and reason ..of which so many non believers are so proud .

If you are operating outside of the standards of conduct of a Christian Church. ...a do so over and over...you are not a Christian Church. You are instead ..a counterfit ..made to look like a Christian Church but in fact ..performance wise are not. It is obvious but to the most intelligent. They must constantly use this example to represent all of Christianity by default.
They just cannot do the math and crunch the numbers. However , dont worry ..most Christians are to dumb to do the math too. They dont think much either. This concept is just to deep for them also.
Remember something about a counterfit...it doesnt look opposite to the thing it is trying to replace ..it looks as close to the real thing as possible. This is very important in understanding counterfits.

Oh and by the way..it worrys me too that it is so obvious and yet so m any buy into this idea..this default setting about the Inquesition and Crusades..
Not much thinking going on .

Thanks ,
Orangetom



posted on May, 12 2005 @ 07:45 PM
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My point in my earlier post about Islam..is that true Islam is Jihad and killing...this is it ..in sum and toto.

Anything else is watered down. Westerners should know this and most dont. They are asleep at the wheel.

Are all muslims like this ..no..they are not. Mark Gabriel whom I posted earlier...clearly makes this distinction in his book. However ..he also goes on to say that those who devoutly follow true Islam..that is what they are taught and believe. Islam is Jihad..Islam is killing and subduing the Indifel. NO EXCEPTIONS!!!! Got it????

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on May, 14 2005 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
My point in my earlier post about Islam..is that true Islam is Jihad and killing...this is it ..in sum and toto.

yeah, yeah... I could spend this entire thread discounting what you say, but then, that would go way off topic. Suffice it to say, you are wrong

Now about the original topic:
As the countries that harbour extremists become more developed and in control, this extremist version of Islam will undoubtedly become eradicated. However, it is unlikely that Islam will ever become an "invisible" religion (ie. nothing but a Quran in the back pocket and some weird jewellery around the neck). You will always see some women in hijabs, men with large beards, public congregations of prayer every friday, the yearly pilgrimage to Makkah, etc (Of course, this is all assuming that nothing gets changed in the religion anytime soon).
The reason for this is, that unlike (what I know of) Christianity, Islam is very big on the unity of the muslims, and muslims as an entire population as well as muslims as individual persons.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 07:53 PM
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babloyi - thanks for the constructive contribution. I see what you're saying - couldn't the same be said of Christianity 200 years ago - hair shirts, flagellants, pilgrimages to Canterbury etc etc?

BTW Orangetom - I'm fine on the thinking front thankyou, hence my rejection of a book of fairy stories written by powerful men to hoodwink incredulous fools and deprive them of their own money.

If, as you seem to be, you're a religious / christian man surely you should be supporting those of faith - or are you working off your own bible?



posted on May, 18 2005 @ 04:31 PM
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thanks for the posting

I am very particular about faith and the sources of it. I also like history ..and much of what you speak is written in history ..

I dont approve of pilgrimages...flagellation.. "works" ..as it is called among Christians. I will however travel to learn or view some point of history..though with the advent of computers that is not so necessary anymore. You pretty much have a whole library at your fingertips.

"Works systems" are the crux of control systems..no matter what...system you are speaking of. This is one reason the Bible speaks carefully on this system..especailly new testament warnings. You so aptly make out this point to seperate one from their moneys. This history can be seen over and over ..in feudal systems supported by the priesthoods and church.
Since we are cautioned on this system in the New Testament...they fall under the category of counterfit systems. Made to look like the real thing but not to knowlegable Christians versed in the word. I can assure you that the number of these Christians is very small. Most of them are somewhere beholden to a "Organizaton " I believe this is your main beef with what you label Christianity ...the "Organization " With this view I agree. I myself am not enamoured with such Organizations and will not have anything to do with them for I know their history.
This system of the "Organization" is what was happening to the Hebrews with their Sadducees and pharisees from the late Olde Testament times into the New testament times..the Organization and its dogma became important and they managed to "hijack" the Hebrew instructions to make themselves more powerful..politically,socially ,and monitarilly. This History Jesus of Nazereth rebuked them for over and over.. This is plain in the New Testament. He did not approve of the "Organization " and its fleecing of the faithful. This because He clearly indicates ...they would have to alter the Faith to support this Organization/fleecing. This is why they needed to kill Him..he would eventually expose them for what they were doing. It would be no different today.
Every attempt by humans to build a organization since has been a counterfit...with the same ends. Christians are to be a Organism..not a orgnization. A Living Organism.
There is a great ignorance among my Christian Bretheren ..in many arenas .particulary history ...even Christian History. There is one thing they have in abundance ...which seems to bother you ..Faith. They have a strong Faith. Since they cannot explain to you and others why they have this Faith you tend to discount them carte blanche. You need to rethink this view though I dont think you will on your own be able.

Thanks for the posting,
Orangetom




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