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The issue of "Freedom of Speech" on ATS

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posted on May, 12 2005 @ 12:43 PM
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Yes, a definite change in the atmosphere has occurred. But this is natural in a growing 'net community.


Yeah i know, but ATS use to be very close, everyone was like one happy family. I have so many friends here, people who i will call close friends. But its sad, that ATS is not the same




posted on May, 12 2005 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by infinite


Yes, a definite change in the atmosphere has occurred. But this is natural in a growing 'net community.


Yeah i know, but ATS use to be very close, everyone was like one happy family. I have so many friends here, people who i will call close friends. But its sad, that ATS is not the same


First of all, a general apology if I have ever been over the top. Secondly, a community such as this is going to evolve, thus the need for rules. However, rules tend to be a two-edged sword. They make life comfortable for the general majority, but the also enforce change. Unfortunately, those changes are not always as good as hoped for, or as envisioned.

SO shows up so very rarely that I often forget about him, but then, I'm one of the "newer" folks who haven't been around since day one. It is my belief that he does a great job, as well as the moderators (who are human beings n spite of some "off-handed" references.


My hats off to the whole schmear... SO, the moderators, and all the wonderful common folk who make this place what it is. Even if we disagree, it's a definite privilege to be here with all y'all.


Me brown nose? Hardly! I only tend to say what I really feel.



posted on May, 12 2005 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
[Yes, it's unfortunate that we have a few members who prefer to be "anti-staff" at every opportunity and enjoy jumping into threads like this and hijacking it for their strange agenda.


I've been told that there are some members here who are under the age of 18. I wonders how many members here are in this age range from 13 to 99 and what are their education levels? Should give us a clear picture of what type of people here with their age and education levels having the overall effects on the various discussions and debates in the entire ATS forums, including the BTS and other relevant forums.

When I'm discussing a subject in a thread with others online, I would like to know what are those people am I discussing with? Some adults and few kids or few adults and some kids?


Granted, there are smart kids and not-so-bright kids here just as there are smart adults and not-so-bright adults here as well. The only difference between each is their viewpoints.



posted on May, 12 2005 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by the_oleneo
I've been told that there are some members here who are under the age of 18.


Aye, that there is. Here's one, for starters.



I wonders how many members here are in this age range from 13 to 99 and what are their education levels? Should give us a clear picture of what type of people here with their age and education levels having the overall effects on the various discussions and debates in the entire ATS forums, including the BTS and other relevant forums.

When I'm discussing a subject in a thread with others online, I would like to know what are those people am I discussing with? Some adults and few kids or few adults and some kids?


The various ages on ATS have been mentioned before, and I say the same thing - so what? Age and education level shouldn't make a difference. 18 year olds not yet in college can easily know more on many subjects than a quadragenarian with three kids of his or her own. All it does is promote thoughts to bash members, saying "You're not old enough."

These rules aren't, as some mentioned, new at all. They've always been there, and some have needed reminder of them. Only the members change, not the guiding principles.



posted on May, 12 2005 @ 05:40 PM
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Free Speech is an illusion.

Freedom is granted to those who conform.

But here at ATS you are ALWAYS free to express yourselves.. Within the Terms & Conditions of Use



posted on May, 12 2005 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Freedom is granted to those who conform.


Gazz, that's bloody brilliant.
Can I quote you on that in my sig?



posted on May, 12 2005 @ 06:39 PM
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Of course its your board. And I hope that you will continue to make it a free board including insights and remarks re Federalism..

Dallas



posted on May, 12 2005 @ 06:40 PM
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Sure you can quote me.


But I may charge a pppv (points per post view)







conform >verb 1 comply with rules, standards, or conventions. 2 be similar in form or type.
-ORIGIN Latin conformare, from formare 'to form'.








[edit on 12-5-2005 by UM_Gazz]



posted on May, 12 2005 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by the_oleneo
I've been told that there are some members here who are under the age of 18. I wonders how many members here are in this age range from 13 to 99 and what are their education levels? Should give us a clear picture of what type of people here with their age and education levels having the overall effects on the various discussions and debates in the entire ATS forums, including the BTS and other relevant forums.

When I'm discussing a subject in a thread with others online, I would like to know what are those people am I discussing with? Some adults and few kids or few adults and some kids?


Slightly dated, but trend relevant.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

We're a smart community. Really smart. Really loyal. Uh, rather male. Some other things. Read up.



posted on May, 12 2005 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by Dallas
Of course its your board.


It's not mine, it's Simon's. He trusts us to run it properly.



posted on May, 12 2005 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by eaglewingz
I belong to another forum that started on About.com . A group of the steady posters had that feeling of family. Many met face-to-face, called on the phone, etc. Then few members started their own site in order to grow and do some different things. As new members came in and others drifted away, the site changed to a less intimate feel. The core members still talk to each other the same, but it is diluted.


I know how you feel eagle. I was a part of a forum similar. I was a moderator. Some of the members I still am close to, others faded away.


I don't even think it's a matter of "control" or size, just a natural evolution.


It took me a while to realize that with the forum I refer to. A previous owner gained ownership again and became a dictator. I know now it was a natural evolution. Many of the staff were upset long before the take over. But you still wish for the old days. Sounds like many here on ATS (and I am not one of the close, original members by any means) yearn for that closeness. It will happen again, but in a different form and with different members.

SkepticOverLord, Simon, Super Mods, moderators, and the rest of the originals... I'm just a servent and lurker that enjoys ATS. You all have done a great job! If it's any consulation (I'm sure you all know this already), what Skeptic posted earlier about the member that you have now globally banned, is typical of the crap you see on many forums. I personally have never understood the mentality of these folks.

They seek to flame, get everyone riled up, get the staff running to respond. It's not freedom of speach they want. It's not fairness they want. They just want attention. Once you ban them, they will spread evil somewhere else. That is just their personality and mentality.

If it wasn't for ATS, I would not have realized this as quickly as I did. Thank you again ATS.



posted on May, 12 2005 @ 07:59 PM
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Yes, of course it's Simon's board. And he's been in touch with me too, and I can take a slap on the wrists.

What I'm suggesting is that you-all not stop the extreme political statements as there are so many views and in my short time here SO has always allowed people to express themselves, in my view.

Let this open-ness continue.

Dallas



posted on May, 12 2005 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by Amorymeltzer
The various ages on ATS have been mentioned before, and I say the same thing - so what? Age and education level shouldn't make a difference. 18 year olds not yet in college can easily know more on many subjects than a quadragenarian with three kids of his or her own. All it does is promote thoughts to bash members, saying "You're not old enough."


It's not about that. It's more like this, for example:

A member who's 41 years old but have a high school diploma only as opposed to a member who's 21 years old but is reaching a senior level in college. How much the former may know something that the latter doesn't have as opposed to the latter is being more educated than the former.

Or

A 17 years old member being a junior in high school but is not considered bright, though like to talk or rant about something here (remember the kid who posted "There is NO NWO" thread a while back?) while a 31 years old member working in a full-time landscaping job and have a wife but is considered bright and like to offer his opinions on the ATS forums on different subjects from time to time.

When you're posting a comment to invite discussion, you are asking for different sides of free speech.

We have all kinds of members here offering their viewpoints/opinions via free speech here, however privileged. Their ages, their education levels, their life experiences defined their world-views here. One member's definition of free speech is not the same as the other's because each member have a different idea of free speech (like what FlyersFan pointed out: the difference between what you CAN say and what you SHOULD say). Here, our free speech have to be limited to polite, frank and rational discussions while under a near dictatorial reminder called the ATS's Terms/Conditions, sufficient to say.


I have a problem with some members here (in certain controversial threads) resorting to slanted conjectures and biased comments on certain subjects that have been discussed to the death before. I had to wonder what are their age and educational levels in order to understand their knowledge bases (how much they've learned AND how much they've NOT learned anything). Am I discussing with an older member who may know something that I don't? Or am I discussing with a younger member who may know something that I've already know and discussed before? I'm more interesting in how much the members know, learned or understood something that I haven't touch on, perhaps having discussed before or endure the same old conjectural rants. Frankly, your age/educational levels are relevant to me when it comes to discussing certain subjects.

Just to be fair to all here: I'm 35, have a BA degree in Fine Arts, have fairly extensive knowledge on government, politics, and world history. I'm a news junkie and the ATSNN News is a nice additional fix for me.


[edit on 5/12/2005 by the_oleneo]



posted on May, 14 2005 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by the_oleneo
I had to wonder what are their age and educational levels in order to understand their knowledge bases (how much they've learned AND how much they've NOT learned anything). Am I discussing with an older member who may know something that I don't? Or am I discussing with a younger member who may know something that I've already know and discussed before? I'm more interesting in how much the members know, learned or understood something that I haven't touch on, perhaps having discussed before or endure the same old conjectural rants. Frankly, your age/educational levels are relevant to me when it comes to discussing certain subjects.


Funny. When I'm posting, I don't ever wonder how old they are. (you can sometimes tell that from style) I care about what they know on the topic and where they're coming from. A lot of what we discuss here isn't regular school material. My father, graduate of Vassar and of Columbia, a well respected member of the community, a biochem major until he switched to english, will never know anything even close to what infinite does about the NWO. What you know and more importantly think very, very often relate very little to education. It might help more for Science and Technology to have taken certain courses, but when was the last time Aliens and UFOs came up in class?

For the record, I'm just over 17.5, I'm a month and a half from graduating highschool - a specialized school, math and science, and one of, if not the, best school in the country. I like almost everything, except morons and my moms meatloaf. Frog Blast the Vent Core.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 06:34 AM
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We've had another member (who posted offensive images of gore) complain we're facists stomping his "freedom of speech" when we removed his images and put him on global ignore until he fixed additional offensive issues with his signature.

I thought it important to remind everyone of this thread.

Thanks.



PS:



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
omplain we're facists stomping his "freedom of speech"


This member was "PepeLapiu1" and has unfortunately been banned.

He's been attempting to draw attention to an important issue (depleted uranium munitions) in an unsavory and belligerent manner. We have certainly discussed the topic on many occasions without the need for vulgarities and forcing images of gore on members.

I suppose to him, we'll always be "fascists" now.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord


I suppose to him, we'll always be "fascists" now.


It is what it is.

You cant help or change people that dont want or understand it.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 12:37 PM
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unfortunate, indeed, about 'pepelapiu1'. he was quite methodical.
passion is a double-edged sword. it makes me sad/happy.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 02:37 PM
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I have noticed threads that frankly are ridiculous even for the weird and interesting topics on here.It is as if people are posting every stupid piece of info just for the sake of it.I am finding that frustration is setting in which in my mentality which is flawed l am afraid that when faced with it the response from me could be described as not so populor and close to breaking T&C.If you writing rubbish then that could attract a less than positive response.Respect as in everyday society has to be earned.If you were in a conversation with people and you stated something poorly showing a lack of education people will react to you same as in here but l fear the rules so far cover people.Lets hope as the popularity of this site grows the Admin don`t feel they can afford to ban more when previously they may have given bit extra before banning.



posted on May, 29 2005 @ 09:56 AM
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People have to remember, too, that ATS isn't the United States. It isn't run/operated or owned in the United States (if I remember correctly), so our constitutional values have no merit on here.

Being able to say what you want, or even believe what you want, is a good thing... but there are some things that cannot be tolerated, least it effect the community as a whole. "One bad apple" and the such spring to mind.









 
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