Why the war in Iraq was worth it and a success!

The success of the war cannot be judged yet, simply because the situation is still to unstable.

This time next year the insurgency could be over, deomocracy established and the economy picking up.

Alternatively the new government could have been bombed into submission while the cities become no-go areas to US troops.

To say the war is a success now is just propaganda.

To say whether the war was right is a much easier question. This war is wrong as it was fought on a basis of lies and idiocy.

Yea, i would support the war if it weren't for the lies lies and more lies, bushco just lie too much, but iraq seems to get better now, with less attacks now.

Originally posted by edsinger
Whine all you want tulipwalkers

Great way to start a post, really makes the reader want to continue reading...

cry about Bush, the US, the 100's of millions of innocent dead civilians that them nasty ol American killed in a weekly basis, complain about why there were no WMD's to be found(even though I still think he HAD them).

Of course you do, you're one of those hysterically pro-american folks that ATS has so many of.

"I am so glad finally someone talks positive about the US!"

Hilarious to the core, some people just don't get it.
The positive things don't make the negative things less existant or less important to talk about.
Some people automaticly switch into the "defend the nation of courage!" mode whenever someone dares to suspect someone or something american is or has been wrong in a certain situation.

Guess what, noone's perfect, neither is America, and people do not only have the right, but also the responsability not to ignore things that go wrong in this world.

Whatever you wish.......just look at this one picture and and your point is moot, the Middle East is now changing, and Bush an Co. started the ball a rolling, just one look........

And this picture is supposed to make the entire war right?
This picture shows us that there was not any other way to get rid of Saddam, that there was not a more carefull way for America to do this? Without the many many many dead and hurt Iraqis?
This picture shows us that Bush lying about the WMD's and afterwards changing the entire objective of the war is right?

Even if this picture is not staged, it shows nothing but a woman who cries after putting ink on her finger. Maybe she is crying about her children that died in one of the US attacks, you truly do not know.

And the difference? Here in the states, people whine and bitch and yet will not lift a finger....what happend in Iraq?


[edit on 8-5-2005 by edsinger]

You're oversimplifying this entire situation.
People can finally vote >> conclusion: the war was right.

It's really somewhat less simple, less 1+1.

Fair elections in Iraq? LMAO. Worth the thousands of dead? Please.

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Hmmm, another thread by Ed as an attempt to cause further polarization in the United States. I firmly believe that Ed is one of those 'terrorist' he keeps yapping about and is trying to cause a divide in this country.

I couldn’t agree more with this statement. Either that or he is the most easily led, naïve and ignorant person to shame the good pages of ATS.

Why the iraqi election had nothing to do with democracy

Firstly, the elections can hardly be called legitimate:

1. Many iraqis - especially in "sunni triangle" - didnt vote.

2. Many iraqis didnt know where to vote simply, because the location 5776 voting places remained a secret, until the day of elections.

3. Iraqis didn't know who to vote or, they didnt know who was really candidates to vote.

4. Iraqi couldnt come to vote. Why? The US. forces have forbidden any cars on the streets.

5. There were no parallel elections. "What parallel elections? Be happy to have elections at all!"

6. There were no international observers - or, yes they were, but they oberved from Jordan.

7. Media coverage? What media coverage! Media were present, but allowed in only 5 voting places.

8. And ofcourse - they will have to wait 7-10 days for results


Secondly, we come to the question: "Why did Bush so badly need these Iraqi Election?"

1. To show his power - to show America and the world, that Iraq is under control.

2. To create a situation, which will need constant US presence in Iraq. Smebody will have to protect all this "democracy" and all this "freedom"!

3. To prove that american democracy really works! ...and it works EVERYWHERE!

4. To say to people of Middle East: "See? these elections gave birth to a new democracy in Middle East!" One more reason, that the entire Middle East is looking at this democracy thing, with even more fear then before!

5. To bring his own people to power - so that he can control the area, and have legitimacy too. Which means that the Iraqi oil can now legaly and without any complications, be transferred from Iraqi oil companies to american oil companies.

6. To show that he has nothing against Muslim people - "See, all I wanted is to liberate them!"

[edit on 9/5/05 by Souljah]

Has everyone already forgotten that the Iraqi people ONLY voted on who would decide how the government would be formed? The Iraqi people STILL have not had a true democratic election. All they have managed to do is form a committie to help decide the fate of there government. This vote had nothing to do with who will lead them. I the counsil so chooses, there wont even be another vote. Oh, and is the war worth it if that happens? Is it worth it if they become some sort of Theocracy/Fundamintalist? As this sure looks to be where the are heading right now. What are you people who say "We are giving them Democracy" going to do when they have a government like Iran? Will you invade them agian because they didnt pick the right choice the first time?

I think that deserves a Way Above, Kidfinger. I havn't voted for you before. but allow me to do so now, for the first time.

BTW, I only tend to vote Way Above for people who attempt to educate others or put blatantly BS threads back into perspective. Such as Otts, Sminkey, AOB and Bout Time.

I'm also going to give one to Jakko. Two in one thread. And I never really use my votes. I guess I should!



[edit on 9-5-2005 by cargo]

Originally posted by cargo
I think that deserves a Way Above, Kidfinger. I havn't voted for you before. but allow me to do so now, for the first time.

Thank you Cargo. Darn, you made be blush

Originally posted by Bikereddie

Originally posted by Ishes
Democracy does not equal freedom.

And a dictatorship does?

Hang on a minute, I didnt say that did I?
One day when anarchy reigns supreme there will be peace on earth.

Huge sucess i agree!
It's a pity the reason for success you mention above are over shadowed by so many other fringe benefits like:

-all the stockpiled depleted uranium the US was able to get rid of by shooting it across the landscape of Iraq.

-all the lovely natural resources, and rebuilding contracts that have been handed out to US companies.

-another war for the US

This makes you think the "democracy and freedom" (TM) bit was the "fringe benefit" really... you know the SELLING POINT?!?!

I appologize souljah, i had no idea your were from yugoslavia(formerly), I thought your were just a whinny american kid, This is my fault because as you said i was making assumptions, sorry. I guess i know now why your against war, i have heard about the terrible civil war there. well, you must be doing somewhat ok,.

Hmm, I just thought of something that should raise everyones eybrow. The author of this thread has made only 2 replies out of 4 pages. Both replies were to further an argument pass a heated point. After that, the author dissapears. Then, the author logged into ATS this morning and just logged off about 10 minutes ago. Without even replying to a single post on his thread. The thread was falling into the cespool of polarization that the author embraces, so I think the author is attempting to get points by having the rest of us whine and bicker like a bunch of children. The author feeds off of our unrest people. Please lets make the author go hungry.

Kidfinger

Good Point!



Let the Author STARVE!


Trustnone

Apology Accepted.

Learn how to play Chess -> Think First, Before You MOVE!

Originally posted by mOjOm

You know, I don't mean to pee on anyone's picnic basket or anything, but when you take a good look, does that tear seem somehow out of place or something to anyone else???

Actually the tear is in the exact spot it should be in for someone who was leaning over to read a voting ballot. Just a refresher class, but gravity pulls things down-hill, and for someone looking down that's exactly where it would go. This actually gives the photo more credibility to me. If it was photo-shopped, the tear would have been placed in the "perfect" spot directly under the eye instead of closer to the nose where it goes when someone has their head down.

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Please lets make the author go hungry.

He fills himself up by getting feedback from his communist CA drivel. ed may wish to keep people in the dark, but there is just too much overwhelming evidence now. The question "What evidence, what evidence?" is so foolish that it compares to Jeffrey Dahmer asking, "What evidence?"

No amount of psyops can change what American's and the world knows. Sure most American's are too busy making money to care, but they still see the BS - people in general just don't understand the fine details.

The administration had two years to sell this deal and seal it up under national security directives for the next 50 years. They're untouchable. American government no longer works. When an administration can perform blatant criminal acts under the guise of liberating another country by forced military intervention, then the government is no longer fit to govern for the people. The white house and the senate is completely overrun by powerful corporations and hedged in moles who move players, whether good president or bad. Money talks BS walks.

There should exist terrible consequences for any criminal acts or immoral behavior on capitol hill. Get caught forging documents or evidence for a war - get life in prison; president, CIA director, or SECDEF - NO PARTIALITY.

With tools like this in place men who take the distinguished honor of Commander in Chief to SERVE our country, would think twice about committing any atrocities, or manipulating the American people in any way shape or form. That however, will never happen. It's too late now. Like all government, past and present, all have become corrupted. This is not a democracy it's an eight year monarchy, which goes into another eight year monarchy with no consequences for criminal behavior. Should a president be able to roar through, retire rich with a paid for security detail, and tax free pension for the rest of their lives after destroying some many lives? BS

Originally posted by C0le
This war isnt about now, its about the future.

1945, we droped and Atomic Bomb, on Hiroshima, Killing 65,000+, and another on Honhiroshima, killing 100,000+, not even counting the side effects many years later, all that death in 1 day alone by our hands, What did all this death accomplish? PEACE, which stands to this day.

Yes it does suck our soldiers have died in iraq, but stop pulling that card, THEY signed a peice of paper, which nullifies your argument, Any soldier not willing to die for this country, shouldnt be a soldier at all, by that standpoint, You and everyone of those pos who had the nerve to parade around carrying coffins of these soldiers, have insulted them, and there beliefs.

Setting back doing nothing with the middle east obviously hasnt helped us, look at what happened on 9/11, now we are doing something which could effect the future of our two people, give it a chance, Iraq can and will be peacefull someday if we let it, Those brave people who went out on election day facing death from all sides did more then any of you ever would, heck, look back just a few years ago, when TWO crazy people kept dc,maryland,and virginia, inside ther homes for how many weeks?, afraid to go out, afraid to even pump some gas, afraid to go to the store, Thos iraqis who went out there that day, Are an example of what WE should be.

Oh yes always a good reason to start wars....

Originally posted by dbates
Actually the tear is in the exact spot it should be in for someone who was leaning over to read a voting ballot. Just a refresher class, but gravity pulls things down-hill, and for someone looking down that's exactly where it would go.

Maybe, you might have something there. However, I don't know where you're getting your additional info about the photo's environment. Is there more to the photo than what is being shown, or more angles or something I should know about???

From this photo alone I don't see any way of knowing if this person has just voted in Iraq or is sitting in a photo studio in upstate NY. Sure, it could be a woman who just voted, became emotional, stopped for a second to display the purple finger of Liberty and all that but it could also be some quick and cheap 2 minute studio snap shot taken with the purpose of implying that same idea.

I'm not trying to be a dick about this or anything either, honestly. It's just that I refuse to buy into such ideas when I clearly remember just a while back when the U.S. Propaganda Machine was caught in an obviously poor planned LIE, sending false "Letters from Our Soldiers" back to my own home town, had them printed in the papers & on the TV telling patriotic stories and so on and so forth. Now of course that doesn't mean that all media is faked but it should be enough to atleast inspire one to expect more "tangible realism" in the future.

Billions are being spent just to bulk mail the populous into buying the latest "whatever-device" you just can't live without for the low price of $9.99 but only if you call in right now. Imagine the budget and manhours behind the bulk mail selling of an unjustified War on Terrorism, including it's slogan of being an "Indefinitely Long Global War Against an Enemy of Unknown Size or Location".

the iraq war wasnt a success.

mission : 'find dem WMD's'

Mission Failed.

What we got was an insurgency and a self-inflicted peacekeeping situation.

It must be costing you a fortune to still be in Iraq, no weapons of mass destruction found , Bush conned you like Tony Blair did here . Tony Blair will be gone soon because of his lies.

Originally posted by Bulldog 52
It must be costing you a fortune to still be in Iraq, no weapons of mass destruction found , Bush conned you like Tony Blair did here . Tony Blair will be gone soon because of his lies.

$1-Billion dollars a day - This is what it is costing America - Imagine what else that money could be spent on - They are going SO hard-out, trying to get control of Iraqs Oil, so they can get themselves out of this hole they dug themselves into...

England and Australia are the same, albiet they are not spending as much money - none the less, our soldiers are over there fighting in the name of $greed$ ...