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Why the war in Iraq was worth it and a success!

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posted on May, 8 2005 @ 01:49 PM
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Getting rid of Saddam Hussien was a good thing... But was an entire WAR needed to do that... OFCOURSE NOT...


Unfortuneately getting rid af Saddam also includes thousands of insurgents and armed supporters who fight the US and If the US were not there to see this process through then they would rise against the weak and put some other Saddam wannabe into office.

Ive thought that too, But it's the regime as a whole that has to be wiped out.

[edit on 8/5/2005 by SportyMB]




posted on May, 8 2005 @ 02:31 PM
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It is still too early to call it a succes or a failure, as I have stated before. And I hope democracy works there, like I said before. In fact, ed, let's just link your thread that is essentially the same. This has been done before.....-ish

[edit on 5/8/2005 by OXmanK]



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by OXmanK
It is still too early to call it a succes or a failure, as I have stated before. And I hope democracy works there, like I said before. In fact, ed, let's just link your thread that is essentially the same. This has been done before.....-ish


Hey there turbo...your link is all jacked up



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 02:38 PM
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It was the latest in a surge of militant attacks that have killed nearly 300 people since Iraq’s first democratically elected government was sworn in 10 days ago.
........
As of yesterday, at least 1,592 members of the U.S. military had died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count.


So if it was "worth it" how come all the armchair generals here aren't over in Iraq defending their democracy? Too comfy sitting in front of a computer, perhaps?

You know by the time the US actually pulls out of Iraq, the number of deaths from the UN sanctions, US bombs, US tortures, and Insurgency attacks is going to outnumber Saddam's record.

Then start adding up all the miscarriages, and leukemia deaths both there and in the US from depleted Uranium for the next 24 years (length of Saddam's presidency), and you'll have a total human rights atrocity greater than Nazi germany.

Its great someone posts a photo-op of Laura Bush putting a flag on a grave in Normandy, without mentioning that the Bush's have not attended a single funeral for the over 1,592 service men and women in the current war. Where was she putting flags on graves prior to it being a "photo-op" for her husband's presidency? How about a yearly visit to the grave of the girl she killed in a reckless driving accident when she was in her late teens/early twenties?

Someone mentioned the dead of 1991, are you talking Gulf War 1.0?
17% of casualities from that war was from Friendly fire
148 deaths, 467 casualities.
Over 487 servicemen who have served in that conflict have committed suicide.
263,000 vets have filed VA claims for Gulf War Syndrome
2 out of 5 vets of that war are collecting disability checks (161,000 vets)
An estimated 9,600 vets have died since 1991 of symptoms related to this "denied" disease.
Was it worth it?

Also did you know a higher percentage of Iraqi's voted than US miltitary personnel?
Only 1/3 of all military personnel votes were received.
Defending democracy, but not participating in it?
What disnfranchises the soldiers from voting?

Same holds true for the elligible voting populace of the United States, only 2/3 voted.

But that only takes into account eligible age of voting, not the people who are not allowed
to vote ever again because they got busted for weed or something else anywhere between
1920 and 2004. Nor the people who are too sick, too crippled, or too locked up somewhere, to ever get to a poll booth (Do the 2.2 million in prison vote?).

If you feel that Iraq is so much better off, after an 8 Year war with Iran that was encouraged by the US, 12 years of sanctions that were enforced by the US, and 2.5 years of bloody conflict brought on by the US....

...MOVE THERE!



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 02:49 PM
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So if it was "worth it" how come all the armchair generals here aren't over in Iraq defending their democracy? Too comfy sitting in front of a computer, perhaps?


Bush hating aside-

The Stars have done thier time in war, a few in Vietnam and others the gulf as majors and LtCols heading up companies and battalions.

Command 101, Im not claiming to know everything about this, But I do know the bascics.

It is not thier job to be up front...that's for the platoon commanders, the LT's and CAPT's. shows what you know.

They are in the rear with the gear, making decsions. They have to be it's virutally impossible to get intel reports, LOGREPS and other large paper based reports when your just fighting. The troops know this, they understand that they are where they belong and the stars have thier job to do.

These senior officers spend years going to command and staff colleges, they all have masters and dregrees in warfighting...thier truly is a science behind it.......they will be useless up front. Most are old anyways and maybe could not be as helpful as a young Sgt in the field.

Anyways...how can a General lead an entire brigade, division or Corps if he's with them in the fight? He has to make decisions for the entire unit, if he's with just one element that's kind of hard to make calls for other elements on the otherside of BFE huh? He needs to be where he can have a full SA (situational awareness of all his troops and activity).



[edit on 8/5/2005 by SportyMB]

[edit on 8/5/2005 by SportyMB]

[edit on 8/5/2005 by SportyMB]

[edit on 8/5/2005 by SportyMB]

[edit on 8/5/2005 by SportyMB]



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 04:09 PM
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Iraq freedom has given the people the right to vote.

But it has become also a hostile country to his own citizens and the unwanted occupation forces.

As long as the country has American troops in their streets, is an occupied country.

And a war zone.



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Iraq freedom has given the people the right to vote.

But it has become also a hostile country to his own citizens and the unwanted occupation forces.

As long as the country has American troops in their streets, is an occupied country.

And a war zone.


Marg, Iraq has reached the point to where even if the Occupation forces leave it will still be a war zone. If the US and its allies were to leave the old school Saddam followers and Insurgents will be able to raom free, put another Saddam in office and there will be no chance of democracy.



But it has become also a hostile country to his own citizens and the unwanted occupation forces.


Unwanted? Are you speaking for everyone? From what I've seen some people hate and wish us to leave, but the majority want us there.

wether you believe in the war or not......We are too far into the game to leave now. Let's at least make things better and see this through so the people of Iraq will be able to vote again in the future.



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 05:18 PM
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A tear from a woman's eye and a purple thumbs up does not justify the CIA, MI6, and CINC falsifying information under the guise of war. Nor would an apology after burning someone's house down to have a bonfire.

It was criminal, and those involved are traitors, and have dishonored the very families who have suffered such terrible losses. Nor does it excuse 911 and the very people responsible for it. The very statement of this thread is ridiculous. We are no longer making airplanes like the Wright brothers ed, we are a little more advanced than that - educating yourself would go a long way in credibility.

After all this time you'd think the majority of people would no longer be slow on what Iraq is all about. Anybody who is still ignorant, means one can short of a six-pack. It's not about opinion anymore. If you say the moon is cheese, those that believe you are only idiots. Hope that helps.



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 05:30 PM
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Its about time that the American people wake up and stop taking propaganda about the "Goodness of liberation Iraq"

Get the realities, Iraq is a war zone, people die everyday and American soldiers are targeted in the land that the present administration is occupying.

When civilians get fed up after seen their love one die, wives, parents, children.

They become bitter and retaliate against the occupying forces.

The administration is very good at covering the way we perceived them, once an Iraqi civilian turns against the US is not longer a "civilian" against the US.

It becomes " an Insurgent and a terrorist"

So when it gets killed, we don't feel so bad about it.

Sound better when you heard an "Iraqi" "insurgent" death than a civilian against occupation death.

Is all a mind game.



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by Trustnone
Exactly, people like souljah have no idea about sacrifice,pride, or honor. He sents comfortably in a nice home, sitting on his computer, none of which he had to ever sacrifice anything for. For people like this sacrifice is as an alien idea as democracy. they would prefer we left iraq alone, allowed saddam to continue war crimes and defy international law, which these exact same people claim america has no respect for.

And where do You sit right now, Sir?

In Baghdad City?

West Bank or Gaza Strip?

Rwanda? Congo? Afganistan?

You dont know me - so dont act like you Do.

Pride? Honor? Sacrifice? You sound like "president Bush", talking about Big Words, but not understanding their meaning.

The problem is, that the entire world is sitting& watching and allowing USA to continue their Military Campaigns and breaking International Laws in process.

You cant Proclaim war in Iraq a success - since its not OVER and people are still dying! Well, you are right 'bout one thing, it sure is successful for all the Corporations and their Big Business.

Again the same story - people need Peace, but they will receive Weapons.

More Weapons = More Peace?



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 06:21 PM
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We can't leave the Iraqis high and dry after we created such a mess, but we have to admit there is a problem before we can fix it. If Bush really cared about our soldiers or the Iraqis, he would go in front of the UN and apologize and ask for help. If he really wanted to help, he wouldn't let Iraq get raped by US big business. He would share US corporation's war profits with other countries that helped. He would make the rebuilding of Iraq an international effort, not a money-making scheme.



posted on May, 8 2005 @ 06:24 PM
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Hmmm, another thread by Ed as an attempt to cause further polarization in the United States. I firmly believe that Ed is one of those 'terrorist' he keeps yapping about and is trying to cause a divide in this country. Ed the smiter of peace. The ripper of respect.

And Ed, for your information, I have an uncle's named inscribed on the black wall in Washington. I have been there to visit and pay my respects to him and all the others many times. You are not the only person in America that grieves our dead.

As for the war being worth it, well, Hallibourton sure thinks it is. The C. Group is raking in big cha-ching. So I guess to some it was. However, I would be willing to bet that little Jimmy who wont have a dad at his football games while growing up would tend to dissagree with you.

[edit on 5/8/05 by Kidfinger]



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 01:12 AM
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What can you say but amen to that.



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 01:33 AM
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Souljah, and where do you live, i live in th US and i have lived in europe and have had parents in the middle east. I did not claim to know you personally, just your mindset. Do you have any real answers or are you just going to prance around saying "stop america!". Last i checked we dont burry civilians in mass graves. and no casaulties in iraq is not what im talking about, put the blame where it belongs, with the insurgents who hide among civilians cowardly. They take hostages and saw their heads off and post it on the internet. What would you tell the parents of nick berg, 'im sorry, your son was a jew' is this an excuse for cutting his head off? Insurgents cause most of the casualties and use people like you for their propaganda machine and you play right into their hands:shk:. Has the US really treated people in iraq that bad? There are casualties but that is inevitable and i think you will be surprised to the ends the US goes to avoid as many as possible, it would be far easier to bomb them into submission instead our military risk their lives to save as many as possible.



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 02:17 AM
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Originally posted by cargo
"What does the picture appearing to be photoshopped have to do with the topic".... huh?



The point is that you may be taking things too personally and are attacking others instead of making a simple point that Ed was being over dramatic. I think it would suffice.


Originally posted by cargo
As for "What exactly does photoshop smell like?". Keep scraping there, champ.

Turd-Polisher. I love it! So fitting.

[edit on 8-5-2005 by cargo]


This only shows that what I am saying is true. I thought we were here to discuss issues like adults. The fact that Ed may be over dramatic doesn't minimize the ownership of your attack. Problems will never be solved with an attitude like the one which you display.

Hopefully, you are here to be enlightened in some manner and not to cause trouble. So, please stop the crude remarks and let us all be enlightened together.



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 03:02 AM
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I could confront you with the way your post was toned too. But I can see the antagonist turned angel routines from a mile away.

Your above post has a significantly different flavour from it's previous one. Sometimes there is a reason why people snap back. I think you are aware of this, however.

Ed, any reply to the call that the photo is fake? I seem to remember you saying something about a sucker being born every minute in another thread. Hmm?



[edit on 9-5-2005 by cargo]



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 04:14 AM
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Originally posted by Rasputin13
You hippies really do make me sick. You have absolutely no sense of pride or sacrifice. You'll never understand how many people died fighting to protect the very rights that allow you to make your moronic statements. You will never recognize evil where evil exists.

Thats why hundreds of us "hippies" are signing up, fighting for our countries.
Ever hear of paddy ashton?
Ex special forces operator and ex liberal democrat leader, he is a "hippie" to you is he a coward?


I am so thankful that the American people aren't moronic enough to vote people like you guys into power, because we'd have been wiped off the face of this Earth a very long time ago if that were the case.

Hardly, look at the "hippies" that have joined the services and didnt fight yet won medals for valour and had honour.
Look at all the war veterans that fought to defend your rights yet didnt like the war.


No matter how well things end up in Iraq, the tree-huggers will NEVER admit that they were wrong. Just as they've been wrong about every other major issue for the past 50 years (remember Communism, flower children?). I've reached the point where I don't even have the energy to respond to their posts individually, because they'll never get it. I pray everynight that God has allowed us to elect leaders who do GET IT!

The fact of the matter is we werent, there are no weapons able to hit the UK in 45 minutes, the weapons left over where being destroyed, the UN investigators gave speculation not the actual facts.

Comunism?
You mean those dictatorships backed by the CIA and american bankers?

I've reached the point where I pray that there are people in place to stop people who think war is the only course of action.



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 04:18 AM
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Originally posted by Trustnone
Exactly, people like souljah have no idea about sacrifice,pride, or honor. He sents comfortably in a nice home, sitting on his computer, none of which he had to ever sacrifice anything for. For people like this sacrifice is as an alien idea as democracy. they would prefer we left iraq alone, allowed saddam to continue war crimes and defy international law, which these exact same people claim america has no respect for.

Would that include me?
Might I point out that there are countries with worse records and are defy laws hourly, yet it was ok to start with iraq first.
We would prefer that we had left iraq alone, because it was wrong, unjust and not our place to play policeman.
Is it ok that we go into a country and do what we want?
Is it ok that our security services LIED to us, is it ok that our LEADERS lied to us?
I leave these questions here hopeing that you might understand.



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 04:35 AM
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Originally posted by Trustnone
Souljah, and where do you live, i live in th US and i have lived in europe and have had parents in the middle east. I did not claim to know you personally, just your mindset. Do you have any real answers or are you just going to prance around saying "stop america!". Last i checked we dont burry civilians in mass graves. and no casaulties in iraq is not what im talking about, put the blame where it belongs, with the insurgents who hide among civilians cowardly. They take hostages and saw their heads off and post it on the internet. What would you tell the parents of nick berg, 'im sorry, your son was a jew' is this an excuse for cutting his head off? Insurgents cause most of the casualties and use people like you for their propaganda machine and you play right into their hands:shk:. Has the US really treated people in iraq that bad? There are casualties but that is inevitable and i think you will be surprised to the ends the US goes to avoid as many as possible, it would be far easier to bomb them into submission instead our military risk their lives to save as many as possible.

I live in Europe, in Slovenia - which was once part of Yugoslavija. I have watched my Country being torn apart by a horrible Civil War, where the Value of Human Life was very low. Soliders went crazy and inseane and they also cut heads and just about everything else - like it is the Middle Ages, not the 21st century. I have seen Pain and Suffering, and the Face of a Childless Mother, who is crying. So, if you ask me why am I aganst the War - the answer is simple: Because its not HUMANE! Every wars get out of hand, no matter how well you plan them, no matter how well you are prepared - there will always be a matter of surprise, and there will always be inventing new ways of warfare - either its heavy jungle boobytraps (Vietnam), or urban jungle roadside bombs. That is the effect of Invasion - it creates Insurgency, it creates guerrillas, it creates rebels. Democracy and such words of the West have very little meaning to these people. In their eyes, US Army is just another invader - like the German army was to the Partisans in WWII. Do you think they wanted to sign a non-agression pact with the German army? I dont think so.



posted on May, 9 2005 @ 04:53 AM
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ah yes all who don't SUPPORT this war are all lazy, cowardly, hippy treehuggers. nice of you to think so. the fact is that though many do not believe that this war was right does not mean that. what it means is that we think this war is blatantly WRONG.

where are the wmd's? isn't that the original reason that the war was started? ok sadam was captured along with most of those who were considdered BAD people. ok it was then a WAR for DEMOCRACY. had those nifty elections, elections that many apear not to have supported. where was the CALLING FOR HELP from the iraqi peoples? at least that would have made some legitimacy to it. oh thats right uncle sam knows what is best for everybody as such there was no need to ask. after all democracy the us way is oviously the best for everyone. can't just let people decide such things for themselves. especialy when the us need for oil comes into play. a us suportive government is needed for that. and why wouldn't they automaticaly support those who put them into power.

the us needs to leave iraq. oh thats right if the military ocupying force were to leave then the people would be free to throw down a government that most do not support. so better stay then untill all those TRAITERS can be rooted out so that the new regime can manage without fear of being disposed. after all with all that hard work you can't take a chance that the will of the people might not favor the us. mabe even be a religious government that would opose the western ideas. can't have that can we.

face it this war was more about ecconomics ie: oil, than to let the people have a better government. sadam was an excuse. there was no denying that he was a prick. add to that the fact that he was not pro west and the need to change things was needed. wonder what would have happened if sadam supported the west? oh yeah then everything would have been peachy keen. it's not as if the main concern was NOT about the people but the government's view on politics. mainly the fact that he did not like the states. many dictators that are bad for the people have been supported in the past, just as long as they were friends of the west.

the war was NOT worth it. and it is NOWHERE near a sucess at least not yet, mabe after all those opposed to the currant new regime are anialated.



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