Secrecy, Lies and Propaganda Sweeping the U.S.

For any that are interested in discovering "how deep this rabit hole goes" I highly recommend reading Media Control: The Spectacular Achievments of Propaganda by Noam Chomsky. In what amounts to not much more than a pamphlet, Chomsky lays bare most of what is wrong with the media and hence the government in this country (and possibly others: britain, canada, aus). Currently I am about one third of the way through Deterring Democracy, also by Chomsky, which gives a much more in depth look at the overall 'real world' (read non-media fairy tale) situation of this country's foreign policy (read imperial hegemony) since world war two. If any of you guys have read chomsky before, please let me know what you think of his writing. I personally think the man is a true genious to be able to see past so many layers of official BS and to express his ideas so succinctly. My only qualm with him is that I haven't really seen him offer any answers to the problems, he just exposes them very well. But of course it seems that these days, nobody has any answers, myself included.

[edit on 5-5-2005 by ColonelForbin]

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that Siroos is a paid propagandist for the Iranian Ministry of Information.

HAHA ...He is one of the rare intelligent people who comes at ats and hes whooping ass with two hands down.
Glad to see someone sensible who can see threw the BS.

for Siroos

Originally posted by jsobecky

from Siroos
I'm constantly amazed how radicals like you portray people who critisize the U.S. for its policies and actions as "anti-American" and as "hating" the U.S.!! Amazed!! I mean I'm perfectly aware of the ultra-patriotic sentiments of many Americans, which sometimes borders or crosses the borders of what would by many be regarded as extremist. You know whith whole landscapes, buildings, hats, heads, bodies, everything being covered in the American flags, and with slogans hanging all over the place, like "Proud to be American" or "These colors don't run"....etc.... But I never thought that people would be so extremely fanatical, that they would accuse people for being "anti-American" or for hating America and Americans, just because they critisize the U.S. government and its actions. I think people like you are the ones who bring Hitlers to power and who in the past were burning or hanging alleged "withces" like in Salem. You are the self-proclaimed prosecutors - the mob - who always pretends to represent the truth and that which is right, but who in reality prosecutes the truth and the innocent. In the 1930's and 1940's it was the Jews, and prior to that and after that it was the blacks, and today it's Islam, homosexuality, liberals, and immigrants - legal and illegal.

Poor Siroos. You try so hard to make us believe that you are not a hater, then you resort to childish attacks such as this. Do you think you are going to get me angry and lower myself to your level? Tsk tsk tsk.

:shk:

The way you try to portray Iran and the US reminds me of the insane rantings of Baghdad Bob. Tell me, are you related to Comical Ali?

Now who is being childish??ill bet u have the IQ of a pee.

Originally posted by Muaddib
i presented evidence Masked....what are you presenting?.... mere rethoric trying to make no point....

i wonder what is really useless here...

Again, what Chirac said was useless. That is the point. He said N-O-T-H-I-N-G. It is only one who would claim that he said something, to support whatever it is that that claim would support, who would read something into what he said.

Is more Chirac-speak needed to show you that when Chirac speaks, he speaks of things that ought to be spoken of, in order that his speaking is heard and somehow feigned to be comprehended, and that his speech contains nothing but a few morphemes strung together but which contain no semantic load whatsoever? Chirac on WMDs is easy to impersonate, because, mon dieu, there are even some at ATS who speak as Chirac does, with obfuscation and with relativism as if there is no absolute, and at the end you would be better to quote Shakespeare on sound and fury than you would Chirac on anything signifying a position on what might have happened in "evidences" but that one cannot state in unqualified fashion because once is Chirac, cleft over an uncomfortable fence.

Fence sitting the European way must involve the use of euphemisms and qualified statements and remote possibilities and mights and maybes to say nothing but to be heard.

By the way, you are hearing things.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

Again, what Chirac said was useless. That is the point. He said N-O-T-H-I-N-G. It is only one who would claim that he said something, to support whatever it is that that claim would support, who would read something into what he said.
........

oooh, i see...so when someone says What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs..... They are not saying anything.... he is saying that evidence seems to point that Iraq has continued with armament programs Mask.....

You really like to "mask" or hide away, and even try to discard evidence when it completly trashes your points and made up lunacies....

Nice try....

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

By the way, you are hearing things.

WTH??? now i know you are out of your mind...


[edit on 5-5-2005 by Muaddib]

Your "seeming" search for what Chirac "seems" to have beeen saying about what the evidences "seemed" to point to "seems" to be taking your attention away from "seemingly" important issues of today not 2002-2003.

It is plain for all to see that Chirac said nothing except for someone clutching at French straws. (Oops, I mean Freedom Straws).

It "seems" you will continue to believe that Chirac said something.

Happy "seeming".

And you are obviously deluded enough to actually think that your mind games has destroyed my argument and evidence.....

Keep up with your mind games Mask. that's all they are....mind games.


[edit on 5-5-2005 by Muaddib]

Don't most countries have government secrets, propaganda...conspiracies?
So why should the US be any different.?..... Hasn't the US government used the news to their advantage......so someone is getting paid off...... I think as long as not all news reporting agencies are on the payroll we still can get some of the truth.

Originally posted by Muaddib
And you are obviously deluded enough to actually think that your mind games has destroyed my argument and evidence.....

Insofar as you quoted Chirac in "evidence" of the "evidences" about which he provided his non-comment, if that is the strength of your "evidence" and "argument" then there was nothing to destroy.

But I know how much it means in the art of Bush sycophancy and defence of the indefensible... Freedom Straws are important to clutch at.

Entrapment is a funny game, but it is of the soul and not the mind.

Siroos:

Just got in on this post, great job!!! The pro-government propaganda is so real its not funny. Look at FOX news. Worse as many on this post care not to see, the government agrees that this is happening. I saw a Times story on this last month. Many of the news stations didnt even check the work of these stories and just ran them. You have a great point about propaganda in the media but I think the real problem is the media's lack of real research work these days.

There is no freedom of speech being suppressed in the US. Sorry, folks, you're spinning the same old story about suppression of free speech going back decades.

Any propaganda you're hearing or reading from the media is all in your mind and how you interprets it.

Is lying another way of telling the uncomfortable truth no one wanted to hear? Hm?

Originally posted by Majic
Ozzy's Uncertainty Principle: If you think you're right, you're wrong, and if you think you're wrong, you're right.

He was a confused man.

Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by xmotex
Again, Siroos is discussing the issues, while you are attacking Siroos.

Who is doing the better job of supporting their arguments?

I guess if Siroos was posting a bunch of BS from the Flat-Earth Society, and I thought it was so evidently wrong that the Earth was flat, I didn't bother to post a counter-argument, I guess you'd join the Society yourself xmotex since she had the better argument. :shk:

Good excuse!

[edit on 6-5-2005 by Siroos]

What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs..... They are not saying anything.... he is saying that evidence seems to point that Iraq has continued with armament programs Mask.....

Yes, Baghdad used such weapons in the PAST.... Long before the U.S. decided to invade Iraq, and long before the U.S. "Desert Storm" attack on Iraq..... BUT.... WHO provided Saddam Hussein with what he needed to produce chemical weapons? The U.S. was one of his major suppliers - even though they knew perfectly well what he was going to use it for!

Originally posted by ms_Bhavn
Don't most countries have government secrets, propaganda...conspiracies?
So why should the US be any different.?..... Hasn't the US government used the news to their advantage......so someone is getting paid off...... I think as long as not all news reporting agencies are on the payroll we still can get some of the truth.

Well, do you want to compare the U.S. with "most countries", or do you want to compare the U.S. to the developed, industrialized and democratic nations of the West?

Surely China, Ukraina, Belarus, Turkey, Iran, Tajikistan, Azerbaijan Republic, Georgia, etc, may beat the U.S. violations of Press freedom and ethics. But do you, as an American (I assume) want to compare your country's press freedom to that of these countries, or wouldn't you rather compare it to the press freedom of countries such as Germany, France, England, Norway, Sweden, Spain, etc...?

Few other countries allow their government and certain government insitutions to manipulate, infiltrate and control the media as the U.S. does.

Any alert outsider who comes to the U.S. can immediately detect that the media is SUPER-controlled and manipulated! It's as obvious that there is a sun in the sky. While in Europe, the media is more or less objective, and serves the function of objectively relaying news to the public, regardless of whether it benefits the interests of its government and country or not, the majority of the U.S. media is clearly subjective, and serves to relay news that benefits the interest of the U.S. government and certain other elements of the U.S. elite.

Originally posted by Siroos

Well, do you want to compare the U.S. with "most countries", or do you want to compare the U.S. to the developed, industrialized and democratic nations of the West?

Surely China, Ukraina, Belarus, Turkey, Iran, Tajikistan, Azerbaijan Republic, Georgia, etc, may beat the U.S. violations of Press freedom and ethics. But do you, as an American (I assume) want to compare your country's press freedom to that of these countries, or wouldn't you rather compare it to the press freedom of countries such as Germany, France, England, Norway, Sweden, Spain, etc...?

Few other countries allow their government and certain government insitutions to manipulate, infiltrate and control the media as the U.S. does.

Any alert outsider who comes to the U.S. can immediately detect that the media is SUPER-controlled and manipulated! It's as obvious that there is a sun in the sky. While in Europe, the media is more or less objective, and serves the function of objectively relaying news to the public, regardless of whether it benefits the interests of its government and country or not, the majority of the U.S. media is clearly subjective, and serves to relay news that benefits the interest of the U.S. government and certain other elements of the U.S. elite.

You have voted Siroos for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Originally posted by dirk d
Siroos:

Just got in on this post, great job!!! The pro-government propaganda is so real its not funny. Look at FOX news. Worse as many on this post care not to see, the government agrees that this is happening. I saw a Times story on this last month. Many of the news stations didnt even check the work of these stories and just ran them. You have a great point about propaganda in the media but I think the real problem is the media's lack of real research work these days.

Hey Dirk,

Yes, Fox TV is an extreme example though - I mean they don't even try to hide that they're not about real journalism, but just pure nonsense propaganda. But I think it's also obvious that the CIA has a clear and outlined plan for how to actively infiltrate the U.S. media - And this is nothing new, but it has never been anything close to as bad as it is today. I agree with you that the media lacks the competense as far as doing their proper research work, but this I think is a problem we see all over the world, as competense has been replaced by "Who's the best bs'er". And this increasingly troublesome phenomenon is not only limited to the media, but practically on every level in society - But that's an entirely different issue.

Originally posted by ulshadow

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that Siroos is a paid propagandist for the Iranian Ministry of Information.

i was starting to question siroos too, everytime siroos post it's like s/he's doing a research paper lol, normal people don't spend like an 1 hour to post and trying to convience everyone that he/she is right. usually people like NWO is coming or we all going to die!!! or Aliens is real, i saw it with my own eyes are people who just doing it for fun.

---> now to the topic
in today's media, it's not for government interest but for corprate greed/interest.

Research paper??? I'm not doing any research here - I'm just stating that which is obvious. And as for posting the link to articles, you do not need to do any research. What is very obvious though is that there's a whole bunch of people here who really need to do some extensive research, because they're really off track!

This is ridiculous. The press here is completely free to report on anything they can find out. But they aren't entitled to get secret information from the government nor are they entitled to a special constitutional exemption from our laws. If our government was allowed no secrets and our press was a class above the law, the people of the U.S. would be less free IMHO.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
This is ridiculous. The press here is completely free to report on anything they can find out. But they aren't entitled to get secret information from the government nor are they entitled to a special constitutional exemption from our laws. If our government was allowed no secrets and our press was a class above the law, the people of the U.S. would be less free IMHO.

They may be free to report whatever they want. This article doesn't say anything about the American press not being free to say whatever it wants. It states that a large segment of the American media is subject to manipulation, bribes, infiltration and control by the U.S. government. But you are also free to be in denial and go on believing whatever you want.