Pure illusion and the wtc

How we love a hero
What a pile of crap!
Transparency you say?

[edit on 21-5-2005 by dh]

I hate to say this about my own countrymen/women, but I believe the majority of them would much rather buy into the big (read: comforting) lie than to stare truth in the face. If they did that, they would have to re-evaluate everything they once believed in. That is far too traumatic for the many.

They've got to get a dangle within the next five years or we're all ****ed

Originally posted by dh
They've got to get a dangle within the next five years or we're all ****ed

Now that's a term I've never heard before!

You're right. I fear though, if they havn't opened their eyes before today, they never will. At least until they get drug off to some detention center someday for whatever reason.

Them get drugged,or get controlled by their street corner cell tower, ID card or chip, us get dragged off, more correctly
See you in rehab, hopefully

yeah, I'll see you there, mate. I'll be the one pushing the smokes off in the corner.

Originally posted by dh
Them get drugged,or get controlled by their street corner cell tower, ID card or chip, us get dragged off, more correctly
See you in rehab, hopefully

us make bad sentence, too, i see.

now how about the evidence of your hologram generators? i want one of those, so i can produce a giant holographic Godzilla and scare the crap out of tokyo.

Originally posted by Odd

Originally posted by dh
Them get drugged,or get controlled by their street corner cell tower, ID card or chip, us get dragged off, more correctly
See you in rehab, hopefully

us make bad sentence, too, i see.

now how about the evidence of your hologram generators? i want one of those, so i can produce a giant holographic Godzilla and scare the crap out of tokyo.

I think if you google "blue beam" and maybe hologram or holographic generators or some such combo you may get there

[edit on 21-5-2005 by dh]

Consider 'em Googled.

I found a lot of speculation as to "Project Blue Beam", most of which sounds patently ridiculous. Nothing along the lines of hard evidence in the form of official NASA documentation... a bunch of Geocities pages, a few ATS threads, and a few other things of equivalent credibility showed up. It also seems that the majority of these pages have taken everything they 'know' about Blue Beam from the same source, one that claims that NASA has a nefarious "four-part scheme" to implement a new world religion via the ingenious expedient of Holographic Space Jesus.

As for holographic generators, well... the best one Google mentions is a little contraption that can produce an image consisting of one thousand pixels.

Think for a moment about the sheer computing power it would take to simply keep track of a full-size, three-dimensional image the size of a jet, a photorealistic one in particular. Now consider the astounding complexity involved with producing even a small hologram. Our current level of technology is simply insufficient to meet the demands of the scenario you have proposed.

Now, I don't normally make it a point to yell unrelentingly at people with opinions based in fantasy; lord knows I'd have been banned from ATS long ago if that was the case. However, the fact that you are willing to make light of the 9/11/2001 attacks and declare the President of my nation to be responsible for the thousands of deaths that occured on that day, and do so in such a ridiculous manner, has caused me to decide to sit here and refute every tenuous little point you make until you either see the light of truth or at the very least stop posting such nonsense.

So, are we done now, or what?

holographically camouflaged to look like planes is patently ridiculous.

Just so everyone knows IPS never says the planes were holograms, it says they had some sort of attachment to the bottom of them, and this attachment may be a missile

The WTC has struck by aircraft, however they were NOT Boeing 767's.

Originally posted by Odd
However, the fact that you are willing to make light of the 9/11/2001 attacks and declare the President of my nation to be responsible for the thousands of deaths that occured on that day, and do so in such a ridiculous manner, has caused me to decide to sit here and refute every tenuous little point you make until you either see the light of truth or at the very least stop posting such nonsense.

So, are we done now, or what?

On the acknowledged holographic capability, no doubt several years behind current military capabilities see
www.zebraimaging.com...

I don't think I've ever made light of the 9/11 attack, a heinous crime of monstrous proportions
About the President of your nation, well he really is only a gopher for others behind, alongside and above him, albeit he comes from a fairly well-placed family of historically heinous criminals, and is a singularly cold and unfeeling criminal himself. The visuals of the events are sufficient to demonstrate the absurdities of the official story, as has been shown in many other postings on ATS, loads of websites and famously in the 'In Plane Site' film. Various interpretations as to the methods used are possible
So on those points, no we're not done

[edit on 22-5-2005 by dh]

The Bushes are hardly a family of accomplished criminals; at best, they are a line of mediocre businessmen and politicians, two professions that, while they do indeed tend to blur the edges of decency a bit, do not lend themselves at all well to participation in massive terrorist attacks. I am only aware of one Bush that could legitimately be called a criminal, and even that is a subjective definition-- Prescott Bush had dealings with the Nazis, as I am sure you are aware, and this was in my opinion a traitorious and criminal act.

Please keep in mind that I am by no means a Bush fanatic; I voted for Badnarik. However, the fact that G.W. isn't that bright doesn't mean he's evil; besides, if he or another member of his administration (cough, cough, Cheney, cough) wanted a war with the Middle East, there would have been any number of ways to begin one without having to kill thousands of Americans and destroy valuable real estate.

Your implication that those attacks were committed by the United States government is sickening. And as for the zebraimaging site, those are certainly impressive holograms, but they still don't come anywhere near the size of a jet plane; furthermore, I'm not sure where you're suggesting the light source for the holograms (which would have to be massive, and would eat up a lot of power) was placed, and why nobody mentioned seeing a gigantic device spewing rays of very distinctive light. A hologram is easy enough to recognize, if you know what to look for, and the testimony of the thousands of witnesses present at the time of the attacks is more than sufficient to convice me that no such object was to be found.

The hologram theory just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. As for the "Bush ordered the Towers to be attacked" one, well... unfortunately, I cannot conclusively demostrate that this is not the case; however, the events were simply too complicated and too grand in scale for any conclusive proof of anything to be drawn one way or the other. It is my personal conviction, however, that while our government (much the same as almost every entity of leadership) may be a corrupt and morally bankrupt institution, it is not a proponent of the cold-blooded mass murder of its own subjects.

I haven't seen satisfactory evidence that our government even knew about the events ahead of time; indeed, the CIA, NSA, and FBI are organizations of such gross incompetence that I would be shocked to find out that they had any idea at all.

A conspiracy on such a massive scale, implicating officials at every level of government and individuals from all walks of civilian life, would be nigh-impossible to orchestrate and keep properly concealed. Given the fact that Muslim terrorists so vehemently took credit for the attacks, and that these very same individuals are the sworn enemies of everything American, I see no reason at all to suspect collusion between them and our government, either.

It all makes sense, if you look at it objectively. Whoever mentioned Occam's Razor earlier in this thread had the right idea.

Originally posted by Odd
The hologram theory just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. As for the "Bush ordered the Towers to be attacked" one, well... unfortunately, I cannot conclusively demostrate that this is not the case; however, the events were simply too complicated and too grand in scale for any conclusive proof of anything to be drawn one way or the other. It is my personal conviction, however, that while our government (much the same as almost every entity of leadership) may be a corrupt and morally bankrupt institution, it is not a proponent of the cold-blooded mass murder of its own subjects.

You're entitled to believe what you want Odd
Seems to me you're mulling over this possibility before having examined all the other evidence, without receiving your wake-up call
I wouldn't say the fact that you've chosen to join ATS, yet don't appear to understand the nature of our global society, precludes you from getting it
There are many militant colluders with the status quo at work on here, and you don't seem one of them. Continue your research

IPS was crap, and here's why...

The documentary's main claim was that the plane had a bulge in it and appeared to fire something before it hit the tower. Did they interview any of the following:

A film expert?

An optics expert?

A meteorologist?

A weapons or aerospace expert?

No. To my recollection, they didn't interview ANYONE of respectible, unbiased scientific credentials. It wasn't a documentary at all. It was some conspiracy freak replaying the same few clips over and over again and repeating his little mantra. They could have at least had it hosted by Elvira, Mistress of the Dark, at least then it would have late-night kitsch value.

While I have my suspicions about 9/11, and I try to keep an open mind, these kinds of documentaries are an embarassment to the "conspiracy community."

-koji K.

[edit on 22-5-2005 by koji_K]

Hmmmmm - wonder where people learn that mantra game?
Oh and Odd, just look at this guys reaction to a jet airliner hitting a building above his head, willya?
thewebfairy.com...

Originally posted by dh

Originally posted by Odd
The hologram theory just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. As for the "Bush ordered the Towers to be attacked" one, well... unfortunately, I cannot conclusively demostrate that this is not the case; however, the events were simply too complicated and too grand in scale for any conclusive proof of anything to be drawn one way or the other. It is my personal conviction, however, that while our government (much the same as almost every entity of leadership) may be a corrupt and morally bankrupt institution, it is not a proponent of the cold-blooded mass murder of its own subjects.

You're entitled to believe what you want Odd
Seems to me you're mulling over this possibility before having examined all the other evidence, without receiving your wake-up call
I wouldn't say the fact that you've chosen to join ATS, yet don't appear to understand the nature of our global society, precludes you from getting it
There are many militant colluders with the status quo at work on here, and you don't seem one of them. Continue your research

To Odd I suggest that you look into the many sources of information on the knowledge that the US leaders had been given by their secret service military cryptographers, which were intercepted, decrypted messages by the Japanese, about the details of the impending attack on Pearl Harbour. The mainland brass was then negligent in forwarding this information to the bases in Hawaii in a timely manner, resulting in the deaths of thousands of their own people. Unless there is a very good reason for them to not have sent this critical, and life saving news to Hawaii, then I must conclude that they are proponents of the cold blooded mass murder of their own. If the Pearl Harbor sacrifice is true, then US government forknowledge and inaction regarding the September 11 attacks has a precedent, and is therefore far more plausible. NORAD certainly fell deep asleep at the wheel for a ludicrously long time, and Andrews Airforce Base must have been at the same party, cuz they all snoozed for just as long as NORAD did too.

I'm aware of the events preceding the attack on Pearl Harbor.

However, the situation is different... I would be more willing to accept the theory that the 9/11/01 attacks occured because of a failure to respond to intelligence than I am able to agree that our own government had some active role in the attacks.

It is possible, and frequently theorized, that F.D.R. allowed the Pearl Harbor attacks to occur in order to galvanize the American people for participation in world war two, and it is likewise feasible that Bush allowed these terrorist attacks to occur in order to bring America into a war with the Middle East.

If this were the claim being made, I would not be quite so at odds with this thread... however, the author has implicated the Bush administration as having been the perpetrators of, or at least part of an international conspiracy leading to, these heinous crimes, and given the evidence at hand I simply do not believe that this is the case.

Originally posted by dh
Anyone who critically watches films like In Plane Site and Painful Deceptions with its careful depictions of the ring of steel girders encasing WTC2, may take a moment away from the pods and flashes you are instructed to look at, in the Plane Site movie, to wonder why, in those slo-mo videos, the plane glides so effortlessly, without resistance, or equal and opposite force, to quote some apple-hit scientist. Nothing at all to slow or crumple the smooth entry
Imagine driving your car at high speed into a brick wall. Is there no resistance from the wall, does your car glide straight through it?
www.gallerize.com...

Good to compare this issue with the Pentagon impact.

While the WTC is made of lightweight steel, the 2nd plane barely touched the inner core beams, it should have flown through the whole structure at 600km/h.

The Pentagon is made of reinforced steel-concrete specially designed to withstand any explosion or a nuclear war. Still, the plane traveled nearly the same distance in the building, hitting it at 700km/h, as the other one did in the lightweight World Trade Center.

Good to take a note about this.

You have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

Yes, the WTC was a thin steel mesh of bolted girders on the outside, which the airplane easlily penetrated. After that, however the airplane transmitted much of it's kinetic energy to the structure, causing it to sway over quite a distance from the force of the impact. In addition, the kinetic energy of the impact was alos absorbed by the floor slabs which distorted and broke.


The pentagon was not designed to withstand a nuclear war. It was built durring WWII. As a result, it actually has less steel in its construction than was usual for buildings of this size.

The exterior walls were reinforced and blast proofed, but not the interior.

furthermore, the building was slab-on-grade where the aircraft impacted, thus the building and the floor slabs were not able to bend and deflect like the WTC towers to absorb the impact.

Originally posted by koji_K
IPS was crap, and here's why...

The documentary's main claim was that the plane had a bulge in it and appeared to fire something before it hit the tower. Did they interview any of the following:

A film expert?

An optics expert?

A meteorologist?

A weapons or aerospace expert?

No. To my recollection, they didn't interview ANYONE of respectible, unbiased scientific credentials. It wasn't a documentary at all. It was some conspiracy freak replaying the same few clips over and over again and repeating his little mantra. They could have at least had it hosted by Elvira, Mistress of the Dark, at least then it would have late-night kitsch value.

While I have my suspicions about 9/11, and I try to keep an open mind, these kinds of documentaries are an embarassment to the "conspiracy community."

-koji K.




[edit on 22-5-2005 by koji_K]

The so called bulge is just an artifact of the digital image process. There is a very clear film based picture in which the bulge is not there. See the Popular Mechanics article.


[edit on 26-5-2005 by HowardRoark]