Oh, and don't forget "UFO Cover Up...Live!" and all of it's strawberry ice cream goodness

As far as not understanding the word "yellow", here's an example for ya...

Up until about a hundred years ago, the Japanese made pretty much no distinction between blue & green. Of course, you have the word "midori", but it was used mostly to describe nature. Even today, ask any Japanese what colors are used in traffic signals, and they'll tell you, "Aka, kiiro, ao"..."red, yellow, blue".

Perfectly understandable to me, then again, could just be because I've lived here too damn long

As mentioned, color is an abstract concept. As for the starmap and yellow stars. Suppose my friends took a picture of their gray dog. In the picture, it'd still look green to me. Likely the same with the starmap stars...

Cheers for the great read- it was also great that you included alot of sources, evidence and links ( the pics were helpful to).
I have never heard of the Hill case before, i had heard about Roswell as it is quite a highly well know story.
The thing that i found the most complelling was the fact that they did not get in touch with the media- which shows it was just one big publicity stunt- as so many others are!

Originally posted by Gazrok
As mentioned, color is an abstract concept. As for the starmap and yellow stars. Suppose my friends took a picture of their gray dog. In the picture, it'd still look green to me. Likely the same with the starmap stars...

It makes perfect sense to me that visiting aliens would have 'some' knowledge of the local language. In 1961 the majority of television signals being broadcast would have been english language. Also, asking for verification on a term for color is quite understandable - if you hadn't heard the term "yellow sun" would you know it wasn't referred to as "golden" or "lemon"?

The star map's the kicker, whether one groups of scientists says 1000 to 1 and another says 10,000 to 1, it's remarkable and convincing evidence that it was shown to her. I wonder what it is that they trade in? Genetic material? Cow genitals?

Are all the UFO sightings are alien market researchers, cataloging our resources and doing demographic studies? Are we gonna be getting a plague of alien telemarketers selling Universal Express credit cards and Zeta Reticuli encyclopedias?? Please say no...

I think you're all missing the point. It's not that color is an abstraction, it's that they should have figured it out beforehand. The fact that they could understand out langugage, and somehow trasmit it directly into our brains, but didn't take the time to translate one of the most common colors in our language? It's just silly, like aliens that land and ask for a cup of flour.

Originally posted by Esoterica
I think you're all missing the point. It's not that color is an abstraction, it's that they should have figured it out beforehand. The fact that they could understand out langugage, and somehow trasmit it directly into our brains, but didn't take the time to translate one of the most common colors in our language? It's just silly, like aliens that land and ask for a cup of flour.

Perhaps it is not that they did not understand that Yellow is a color, they
may not be able to distinguish yellow from some other colors.

Most species don't see the exact same range of the spectrum that we see.
Some insects can see Ultra Violet. How do you go about explaining what
"color" UV is when you cant see it?

good job gazrok!!

excellent stuff. i remember hearing about the HILL case when i was a kid. i was born in 63. but the HILL case was the very first info on UFO's and contact that i'd ever heard about..........

good stuff..........WTG!!!!!

all hail the mighty gazrok and his trusty keyboard!!


angie

TruthCanHurt, because based on your argument then they would have no need for the word "yellow" and would simply call it by the word they preceive it to be ie Blue or Green or grey or Orange whatever color spectrum that "yellow" appeared to them.

Like Gazork said I think he see a grey dog but preceives it to be Blue so in his mind he is going to call it blue as what he associated with the color that he see's.

So in the case of the alien they would just state whatever color that it appears to them, since they would not necessarily know that humans see that "color" as a different one.

The aliens would have had to test Betty with a color/name wheel to determine humans color preception and to see whether or not we understand the same colors by name association.

Since this was not something that was ever disclosed, we can only make the assumption that the alien leader learned english and color association at some other time and possibly involving another abductee, but the time spent with that abductee was either too brief or too inconclusive to make a scientific judgment about human vs alien color preception.

So taking that all into account IF the alien see other colors or has some color blindness in a specific spectrum then they would only be aware of what their own perception is and would simply call it as they know it. There would be no understanding or need to ask Betty the word for "yellow" if they have no idea what "yellow" is to begin with. There would have to be some sort of interaction with things yellow and human vs alien simultaneous observation for the alien to wonder what the human term is for that color as their understanding is different of that object in the way of color perception.

Like Gazork said I think he see a grey dog but preceives it to be Blue so in his mind he is going to call it blue as what he associated with the color that he see's.

So in the case of the alien they would just state whatever color that it appears to them, since they would not necessarily know that humans see that "color" as a different one.

I think you're missing the point that to me, "purple" doesn't exist. It's pretty much indistinguishable from blue to me. So I can't understand the concept of it. To me, it's just another name for blue.

Now, I hardly think that not knowing one little word (if you look closer, you'll see that the "leader" questioned other words as well, according to the sessions), somehow discounts, or even weighs in at all, against radar contact, high level military involvement, an accredited psychiatrist, and of course, a truly remarkable starmap that simply the odds are astronomical against it being just "made up"....

The kicker for me regarding the Star Map , was that it included an extra star unknown at the time Betty Hill drew her map. 82 Eridani I believe (correct me if I'm wrong)

You can clearly see in Gazrok's post that the computer gerated map of Zeta Reticuli 2 does not include 82 Eridani , And Betty's Star Map clearly shows 82 Eridani.

RE:Colors

Before fractals were able to be seen on computers, there were being made by little old ladies into doilies, some extremely abstract.
Saying this, the tiny number which is millions of prisms of color are nothing compared to the totally endless colors of the universe, illustrated by fractal's but not really ~able~ to be discerned into the numbers of volumes there really are.
IOW, in the photographic scale, there exists 6 colors and black and white.
If we could see this planet without the sunlight, we would have magenta grass and trees and yellow skies,etc.

Your work in research here is great.
People wanting to learn more really should find and read
The Interupted Jouurney.

This story I believe was 1963 and a white woman and black husband. Which at that time made the account even more skeptical by all prejudice people. Dr Simon took the time to hypnotise Barny and Betty,

All in all Betty seemed in her recount a little if not all subjective in her own experience.

Dallas

Neat post, Gaz!

I've been facinated by the Hills for years. I read their story years ago when it was published in either LIFE or LOOK magazine!

And as for the needle in the navel.....I had a tubal ligation after my last child was born. It was done through a small incision at my navel, and was covered by only a small bandaid when I woke up. Seems entirely possible that they could have checked her fertility or even taken an egg pretty much the same way.

Thanks again, Gaz!

Originally posted by siriuslyone
RE:Colors

Before fractals were able to be seen on computers, they were being made by little old ladies into doilies, and used by Native Americans ingeniusly and some extremely abstract designs.
Saying this, the tiny number which is millions of prisms of color on this orb are nothing compared to the totally endless colors of the universe, illustrated by fractal's but not really ~able~ to be discerned into the numbers of volumes there really are due to lack of perceptible color matrix.
IOW, in the photographic scale, there exists 6 colors and black and white.
If we could see this planet without the sunlight, we would have magenta grass and trees and yellow skies,etc.

[edit on 21-5-2005 by siriuslyone]

I am amazed , I really am !

I do not know what to write except that this sounds like not a hoax

Um ....Thats all to say because im stunned here.....

Awesome post. Great job!

I'd really be interested in learning if there had been any reports of other abductees mentioning Zeta Reticuli as the home system of the visitors.

How about pointing a radio telescope in that direction, that'd be a start.

Not only did Pease AFB have an Unknown Radar contact that by thier words correlated with Betty and Barney Hills report and other sighting reports they recieved , but N. Concord AFS also had a radar contact just 7 hours before the Hill's sighting.

Blue Book Project 10073 Record Card regarding the N. Concord AFS radar sighting reads as follows:

1. Date: 19 Sept 61
2. Location: N. Concord AFS, Vermont
3. Date: Time Group-GMT 19 2122Z (September 19, 1722 Eastern Time)
4. Type of observation: Ground-Radar
5. Photos; No
6. Source: Military
7. Length of Observation: 18 min.
8. Number of objects: 1
9. Course: S
10. Brief summary of sighting: Return on H/F (height-finder) radar size of a/c (aircraft) appearing as normal target at 62,000 appeared 196 deg. at 84 mi, lost on contact 199 deg. at 80 mi, going NW then S and gradually S on scope 18 min. (The original TWX not reproduced here but on file with original Blue Book material describes the UFO sighted as "a large aircraft").
11. Comments: Relative low speed and high altitude coupled with erratic course including weather balloon.
12. Conclusion: Probably balloon.

Blue book never followed up on any leads, nor did they ever talk to Betty and Barney Hill again.

Although a correlation between the Radar contacts and the Hills sighting was made by the Pease AFB investigators, Blue Book concluded that no evidence was presented to indicate that the object was due to other than natural causes but makes no mention of the radar tracking.

I'd really be interested in learning if there had been any reports of other abductees mentioning Zeta Reticuli as the home system of the visitors.

Well, numerous abductees have, but their levels of credibility vary of course...

For one, the rather infamous Robert Lazar also claims this as the home system...(he's covered on plenty of other threads)....

The second bit though, that most aren't aware of, involves the project to search for extra-solar planets (i.e. planets in other star systems)... I believe it was in 92/93, sometime around then, that they announced the discovery of a planet in the system, in the alleged "life zone". However, this was then renounced citing a calculation error...so who knows?

Great collection of the facts, as I've noticed you usually do Gazrok.

I find it an interesting coincidence that Zeta Reticulin stars are very similar to Sol, and from what I've read a newly discovered plaent capale of supporting life.

You must also consider that Betty Hill's Star Map was drawn freehand from memory when comparing the similarity to Majorie Fish's Star Map.

Very interesting read Gazrok. I first read of this case whilst still at school, many moons ago . I'd always assumed it was a hoax, based primarily on nothing particular, just my initial gut reaction.

The facts you have provided are intriguing, to say the least. One thing that jumped out at me was the procedure with the long needle being inserted into Betty's navel. This would imply that the aliens were very familiar with female human physiology, and human reproduction in general - implying previous abductions prior to 1961 that have gone unreported.