The Hill Abduction Case

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posted on May, 4 2005 @ 09:38 PM
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Great Post... My husband walked in and saw the beginning of the post with the Hill's pictures as I was reading and said "I know those people" It seems that Betty Hill spoke at his college once. He said that she was a perfect "lady" with amazing grace and diction and when she was done speaking he was certain of two things: 1. That she wasn't lying 2. It's scared the hell out of him. It's crazy, we've know eachother since 1984 and he's never told me that story before, but he said that he thinks of it from time to time. This is actually the first time I have ever heard of the Hills, I just decided to read it becuase I'm a fan of your posts !!
I'm still a skeptic, but after 20 years I know when my husband it lying, and he's not pulling my leg on this one ! He believes that she was telling the truth which makes me want to take a second look at the whole thing. Thanks for bringing my husband and I closer with this and keep up the good work.




posted on May, 5 2005 @ 07:20 AM
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Great post!


A few questions:
1. The millitary people that came to visit the Hills, did they say why they were there, and what did they do?(if anyone knows?)
2. Are there any accounts to what Betty saw in the book she was shown?

Also, I think I heard this in an interview by Betty Hill I have on my computer(not sure though); She said that noone was going to belive her, she wanted something to make them belive her. One alien said that she could keep the book, but as she was about to exit the craft another alien came screaming saying(in english or not, I don't know) she couldn't keep it. So they took it away.
Anyone else hear anything about this?

Anyway, great post series Gaz. Keep em' comming!



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 08:56 AM
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I don't know too much about the original two who interviewed them, other than their names, and that one was later identified as a presidential assistant. Major McDonald, Air Force Intelligence Officer, and friend to the Hills, obviously was somewhat satisfied, as he was also present for that interview, and didn't object to them.

Yes, Betty states that she was given the book, and then later it was taken back. I did not see anything in Betty's own words describing the contents of the book, so I don't care to speculate on what it contained.

*****

Sorry Byrd, but you know me, I can't just respond and NOT be long-winded!


Here we go:



I read a report just a few days ago (and can't find it now) that indicated that Betty (who did believe in UFOs) initially was the one saying they were abducted. Barney denied it.

He continued to deny it for at least 6 months while Betty insisted that it was true. She did win him over to her viewpoint after nearly a year.
www.thetriangle.org...

Added your found link to the quote for reference.

Interesting that you’d believe this author over the foremost authorities in mental health at the time, etc. I’m unaware of Aaron Sakulich’s credentials in mental health, so perhaps you could enlighten me, as I don’t see a “Dr.” in front of his name? Mr. Sakulich claims that Barney didn’t think anything happened. This is the first of many outright lies in the article. Barmey is the one that reported the sighting immediately after the event. This is a documented phone call to the base, including naming names, etc. As for using Dr. Simon’s words against him, the author fails to explain how if Betty made the whole thing up, how did Barney’s story match while under hypnosis!!!???

See my quote in the post from Dr. Simon regarding the Hills had some type of “real” event, and could not have fabricated it. I don’t see any quotes from Barney saying he denied the event in that article. How strange? Yet there are plenty of quotes attesting to what happened. Personally, I’ll take the witness’s taped words over heresay from an author who claims to know what the witness was thinking…
An interesting attack is that Betty was an avid reader of UFO abductions, etc. and that maybe that led to her claims. That is perhaps the icing on the cake, as it’s painfully obvious that the author failed to realize that the Hills were the FIRST such publicized case!!!
So any such readings would be well AFTER her experiences!!! How can one assign any credibility whatsoever to this author is beyond me…



Carl Sagan (and others) on the "star map" (not as accurate as promoted):
www.skepticfiles.org...


Really? Read closer. Aside from the scientific tech talk, here’s something interesting…



To summarize, then:
(1) the pattern discovered by Marjorie
Fish has an uncanny resemblance to the map drawn by Betty Hill;
(2) the stars are mostly the ones that we would visit if we were
exploring from Zeta Reticuli, and
(3) the travel patterns
generally make sense.

Walter Mitchell, professor of astronomy at Ohio State
University in Columbus, has looked at Marjorie Fish's
interpretation of the Betty Hill map in detail and tells us, "The
more I examine it, the more I am impressed by the astronomy
involved in Marjorie Fish's work."


Personally, reading through all of it, I find several attempts to discredit the map, but with each concluding that if restricting the stars to the types mentioned (i.e. yellow, likely life zone stable stars, etc.), then there simply is no other match than the one made by Fish. Even discounting such variables, only a couple other matches could be made (i.e. ignoring the star colors reported by Betty) Perhaps you are reading this differently than I? This seems to only reinforce the map’s validity…and the odds against it being random.



Some of the points of the case (which later become part of mainstream UFO lore) are brand new -- in other words, no previous mention of aliens mentions these. [Gazrok noting here-this would seem more in the Hill’s favor, than against, no?]

The big-eyed aliens never appeared in any other account until the Hills. After that, they suddenly become popular. But they DID appear in a movie that was released earlier:
www.csicop.org...


So, aside from a supposition that they “might have seen” the Outer Limits episode, and yet described aliens different than the ones in the episode, aside from one feature (wrap-around eyes), you (or Mr. Klass) contend that the Hills happen to be aficionados of imported Japanese sci-fi? As they would have had to have been to see this film. Also, the Hills’ sessions began in JANUARY of ’64. Did the movie come out in January? (info only showing the year in various sources) Funny, the csicop guys (i.e. Klass) didn’t even take the time to find a pic of the alien in the film. I did, you can see it here:



Not exactly a dead ringer for the Hill alien….




And take a look at THIS still photo from a much hyped movie of that year called "Earth VS the Flying Saucers"
lavender.fortunecity.com...


Again, only one matching feature, wrap-around eyes. In that still, we also see a fully human nose, yet not on the Hill aliens. The logic is assuming such things as that such sources were the inspiration for the Hill’s accounts, is completely flawed. First off, they were put in a hypnotic state to specifically recall details. They were NOT looking for an abduction story, just the source of Barney’s anxiety initially. Betty wasn’t even the patient to start…it was all about Barney’s health. Thus such a contention as fabrication would have to be that the Hills made up a story, then told each other about it, and then under hypnosis, such a fabrication didn’t come out, while examined by likely the most capable psychiatrist in the nation. Surely one must not think too highly of such credited professionals.

Klass' logic is also flawed in that it is a complete assumption that the Hills saw such films. This would be akin to me seeing you with a certain haircut, and then saying, “Ah, you must have seen the cult classic, “Cry Baby” and copied the hairdo! (even though your hair looks only slightly like it). You’d say, “I’ve never seen such a film.” I’d say, “Nope, I’ve just proved it, you copied it from Cry Baby.” See the flaws inherent in such logic?



Chip implants didn't show up until the Hills... but again, they appeared in a 1956 movie and the chip implant was part of the ad:
www.scifidimensions.com...


Same flawed logic employed by Klass as above. One would have to assume the Hills watched such a movie, and then recalled it nearly ten years later and it somehow influenced them….
There is no proof the Hills saw such films or adverts, and so such a refuting fact is merely assumption.



There's at least one report that the "alien abduction" was a coverup for a racially motivated attack. I find that pretty weak, but there are a lot of things in the Betty Hill story that don't match up.


You even admit that’s weak, so not much need to go further. Personally, I’ve seen such theories, but not one iota of even shaky evidence to back such a claim. Not to mention, in order for it to be true, one would have to think Dr. Simon to be one inept psychiatrist, and of course ignore the other facts, such as the radar contact, sighting report to authorities, etc.



The navel needle probe is one of them. All that's behind a navel is scar tissue and intestine, and you can get to the intestines easier elsewhere on the body. You can't get to the uterus via that route (she says, having survived about 4 rounds of amniocentesis. It's not fun.)


Really? While I’m not one to quibble with a woman on questions involving child birth, perhaps this would prove interesting?
Betty’s description sounds like a fairly recent advance we’ve done, laparoscopic surgery. The below is regarding a procedure eerily similar to what Betty described (but back in ’64)…



Purpose of the Laparoscopy
The laparoscopy lets me visually inspect your reproductive organs. I can see if the tubes are deformed, swollen, or trapped in adhesions; I can see if the ends of the tubes are open and the fimbria functional; and if adhesions are preventing the egg from migrating from the ovary to the tubes. I can also detect the presence of endometriosis and perform a number of surgical procedures to correct various abnormalities. I will usually combine the the laparoscopic procedure with a diagnostic hysteroscopy to evaluate the inside of the uterine cavity….

A laparoscopy can be performed on an outpatient basis. First, you are given a general anesthesia. Then your doctor will slip the laparoscope through a small incision in your belly button.

www.ivf.com...







[edit on 5-5-2005 by Gazrok]



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 11:52 AM
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Thanks for bringing my husband and I closer with this and keep up the good work.


Certainly an unintended side effect, but glad to help with that!


Now if I could just get my wife to read this stuff and stop rolling her eyes up at me...



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 05:34 PM
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I can speak english, but I cant speak Chinese. Yet we are both humans on earth.

How is it that Betty Hill could understand the aliens and they could understand her ?

As far as I know Betty Hill could only speak english ?

Does that mean that Aliens only speak english ?

Betty never said "I heard them in my mind speaking to me". She responded when asked that she spoke directly to them. And they like wise had spoken directly to her, in such things as the observation room where the "aliens" re-assured her that they were not going to harm her by inserting the long needle into her belly button.

Interesting thought that the aliens could converse easily with her.



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 05:44 PM
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There you go again being as possibly thorough without actually writing a book..great work!

I had read the book Interupted Journey and found slight differences between the two accounts. For now I feel Mr Hill was, under hipnosis, actual.
While Mrs Hill.. I'm just not sure about before - and after her pregnancy test. Yet the method of penetrating her navel was years before its time here in the human medical world.

Dallas



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 05:58 PM
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I can speak english, but I cant speak Chinese. Yet we are both humans on earth.

How is it that Betty Hill could understand the aliens and they could understand her ?

As far as I know Betty Hill could only speak english ?

Does that mean that Aliens only speak english ?



Betty says that one (which both referred to as a "leader") could speak English, but often had to ask them about certain words, such as "yellow", and some other examples. I thought I had included that in the post, but I was reading quite a few sources.

Surely you don't propose that English is too complex to learn for a being that has mastered interstellar travel?



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 06:43 PM
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Just why would they choose to learn english out of the many dialects on the planet...

And if the leader did not know certain words who was it that "it" turned to and why (if that alien had a better understanding of fundemental english words) wasnt that being the one speaking with Betty directly.

IF the alien learned english then I would think that it would have learned fundemental terms, since being advanced it would know that basic concepts of science should be learned first.

Primary colors, RED GREEN, BLUE YELLOW, primary numbers, positive negative, male female, up down, back forward left right etc any logical term used to identify or position I would assume to be of top concern when attempting to communicate, stop, go, enter, exit, eat, sleep and so are instructional commands that you would want your "test subject" to understand clearly.

Whether or not the alien could understand or use words such as idiot, dolt, moron, chubby, obese, anorexic etc I would think would have little value in communicating their intent.

vague descriptive words like harsh or delicate or preturbed I would believe to be lower on the necessity to be learned first.



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 07:06 PM
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I'm not sure at all that abduction cases indicate verbal communication. But I have read many and most all - if not all case abducties indicating mental telapathic communications.

Dallas



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 07:17 PM
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Dallas even if its mental telepathy the receiver ie the abductee must still understand the thought being transmitted. Thus the mental language must still be in english for the abductee to understand. Verbal or unspoken the language must still be in whatever the tongue that the abductee speaks.

I can not read nor transmit non spoken verbal language to someone who does not understand english.

The person must at least think in the langauge that is native to me for it to work.



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 10:23 PM
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I think I can shed some light on the needle through the belly button.
It was written that Mr. Hill submitted a sperm sample. Eggs (Ova) are with drawn from females in exactly that manner for in-vitro fertilization. You can also tie tubes in the same manner.

There are also "punch" biopsys done that way. I had four last year on my Thyroid and two to my ovaries. Although they are sticking a nasty looking long needle into your innards the recovery time is nil. I drove myself home from the Tyroid biopsy. So they could have wanted ovarian tissue or Ova.

Maybe they were making a test tube baby. That would explain alot.

If I were and alien race exploring an new race I would want to know a few things:
1. How it reproduces
2. What can kill it
3. What can cure it
4. How to contain it



posted on May, 6 2005 @ 12:14 AM
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I always found how they found zeta reticuli 2 was their home star system interesting.



posted on May, 6 2005 @ 12:23 AM
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Perhaps' your somewhat new to this very-important subject matter..?, and in being new I suggest you read a bunch of materials along the lines of ufology. Not trying to be in anyway sarcastic, just believe in the subject and have read alittle bit about it.

Dallas



posted on May, 6 2005 @ 01:28 AM
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Good folk never lie. Are there many cases like this ? cause its really hard to deny this case.

I'd like to read more on proply reported and documented cases. So if there anyone willing to post up links that would be appreciated

Logic_tank



posted on May, 6 2005 @ 01:31 AM
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See, this is what gets me about many alien cases. These guys come from across the galaxy, can disable electronics and render humans totally immobile with a thought, but that ask nonsensical questions like "What is 'yellow'?"

I'm with Vallee, Hynek, and Keel on this one



posted on May, 6 2005 @ 01:41 AM
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Well then I can suggest you consider reading the Alaghashi case (the Wienners) through respected ufologist and author Ray Fowler. And video documentories aired on A&E 1996.

Dallas



posted on May, 6 2005 @ 07:24 AM
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Just why would they choose to learn english out of the many dialects on the planet...

And if the leader did not know certain words who was it that "it" turned to and why (if that alien had a better understanding of fundemental english words) wasnt that being the one speaking with Betty directly.

IF the alien learned english then I would think that it would have learned fundemental terms, since being advanced it would know that basic concepts of science should be learned first.

Primary colors, RED GREEN, BLUE YELLOW, primary numbers, positive negative, male female, up down, back forward left right etc any logical term used to identify or position I would assume to be of top concern when attempting to communicate, stop, go, enter, exit, eat, sleep and so are instructional commands that you would want your "test subject" to understand clearly.

Whether or not the alien could understand or use words such as idiot, dolt, moron, chubby, obese, anorexic etc I would think would have little value in communicating their intent.

vague descriptive words like harsh or delicate or preturbed I would believe to be lower on the necessity to be learned first.


Who's to say they ONLY knew English? That is a complete supposition on your part. And it WAS the being who spoke it, that communicated to Betty. He asked Betty to elaborate on unfamiliar words. Color is a pretty abstract thing, as we don't even know that they see the same way we do. Color isn't an innate property, it's subjective to how an eye sees it. For example, I'm partially colorblind. My friends have a gray dog, who to me, looks no different than hunter green. I can't even comprehend the idea of the color "purple", because to me it's no different than dark blue. So myself, I don't see where not getting "yellow" is that important, and it certainly isn't the kind of thing one would make up.

Bottom line, if you wish to ignore the radar contact, sighting, opinions of military personnel, opinions of respected scientists (including Hynek by the way), respected researchers, and the sincerity of the witnesses, the recall and matching stories while under, the uncanny starmap, etc., then that of course is one's perogative...though I'm not so sure that's denying ignorance....



posted on May, 6 2005 @ 05:22 PM
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Aren't there other sources that claim the grey's hail from zeta reticuli and their stories are in no way affiliated with the Hill's? I have done so much reading that I can't remember names. Anyone know of others that claim the same home world for the grey's? It would be interesting if others in different experiences came to know the same info.



posted on May, 6 2005 @ 05:45 PM
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You hit it right on the head Gazork, we have no idea what color spectrum if any that these "aliens" can or can not see. But for 1 color description to stand out seems odd. Since of course they were charting "yellow" suns.

This leads me to the conversation between Betty and the leader, when shown the star map did Betty say, hey those are all yellow suns that those lines connect to. Or did the alien tell Betty they were looking for "yellow" suns but yet did not know the word "yellow" to explain the color to her.

There is a reason why the word "yellow" is relevant into the true nature of the Hill's experience.

The star map- plotting "yellow" like suns like our own

The leader not knowing the word "yellow" which implies the leader knew other color words, just not the word "yellow".

Betty stating that the map was simply shown to her without comment or explanation, yet the word "yellow" is a prominet theme for the star map to begin with.

And yes it is quite possible that the "aliens" could speak several languages, or just like the babble fish maybe the aliens are capable of understanding the basic fundamentals of a persons thought pattern. Although I think I would be highly suspect that something like that actually exists.

While there still remains tangible and credible data to support the Hill's claim that something strange was in the air that night. I am still having a hard time giving them 100% credibility on the abduction. OR simply that the abduction happened in the manner that they remember.

IF I was a crafty mind altering capable Alien I would be more then tempted to input a fraudulent dream memory into the abductee's memory. Thereby clouding the actual event even under regressive hypnosis. No tangible evidence to lead credibility to the "abduction" to counter whether or not it is a altered memory or not, since you have no third part witness that can say that it actually happend to the subject.

And Dalls I am not new to UFOlogy.



posted on May, 6 2005 @ 11:07 PM
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Regardless of such possibilities based on assumptions, as you say, there is very tangible evidence...

To answer another, other sources for Zeti Reticuli include the highly dubious Bob Lazar, a few alleged govt. docs, and of course, the renouncing of a possible planet.





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