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Would history be different if it hadn’t been for Roswell?

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posted on May, 4 2005 @ 07:44 AM
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The year 1947 was a pivotal year in American history. On July 4th, an alien craft crashed and was recovered by the American government and everything changed. Later that month, President Truman signed the National Security Act, which created the CIA and NSA. MJ12 was created to investigate the alien problem, and the topic became Above Top Secret (sorry for the pun). This was for obvious reasons. At the time, the Cold War was heating up, and KGB agents were infiltrating all levels of government. This along with the airing of George Orwell’s War of the Worlds on the radio in 1938, we proved to be excitable over the idea of alien invaders. Because of this, the Military Industrial Complex (MIC) was able to back engineer technology from the crash and grow to be what it is today, and some say evolved into the New World Order (NWO).

Well, would history be different if the craft hadn’t crashed Roswell? Would we have had a need for a National Security Act, which set all these other events into motion? Would the topic had been classified Top Secret, instead of being a field of ridicule? Would there have been real scientific inquiries into the phenomenon, instead of PR campaigns like Project Blue Book? Would the MIC or NOW be in power today, keeping the public in the dark and invading other countries?

In my opinion, this country would have been completely different, and would a more hospitable country. I also believe this would be true if it wasn’t for the assassination of JFK. We would probably know a lot more about aliens and the nature of the universe. The topic would be one of serious study instead of being a field of ridicule.

Well this just about covers every conspiracy theory, with a lot of questions. Would the same events have occurred only differently, or was Roswell the turning point of where things went wrong? What do you think?

Related topics:
You can read about the Roswell crash in Gazrok’s threads starting here.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
National Security Act of 1947
Government Cover-up




posted on May, 4 2005 @ 10:33 AM
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Maybe this topic was too heavy for the morning crowd, let's try it again.

Any comments?



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 11:10 AM
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The simple answer to your question is that any change in historical events would cause changes going forward forever. That is just how history works.

But I do think you have put your finger on the turning point. Until Roswell all we had were sightings, The Battle of LA was probably the start of governmental interest in UFOs so when Roswell happened they already had some idea of what they wanted to do. If information had been distrubted a little better there never would have been the front page newspaper story. Without that it is very possible that Roswell would have never come to national attention.

But on the other hand, Aliens are out there, they do visit at least to take looks at us so possibily another event would have driven the same basic set of circumstances a few years later. Once the curtain of secrecy came down we do not know how many amazing events have never come to light.

A.T
(-)



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by Alexander Tau
But on the other hand, Aliens are out there, they do visit at least to take looks at us so possibily another event would have driven the same basic set of circumstances a few years later. Once the curtain of secrecy came down we do not know how many amazing events have never come to light.

Another event could have started the chain of events, but given the time frame, would the reaction have been so extreme? Keep in mind, Roswell occurred just after WW2, and the Cold War was just starting. If a similar event occurred at a different time, I think the reaction could have been different.

I guess one of the points I'm trying to make is that even 50 years later, I still see the ripple effect from the crash, and how current events are affected by it.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 12:07 PM
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It has been said that "hindsight is always 20/20."

The world would certainly be much different today, the possibilities are to numerous to contemplate.

Here's another "what if " for ya.

What if in 50 years time, (assuming the human race survives ecological, political, economic turmoil) someone were to ask "Would the world be a different place today if groups like 'Citizens Against UFO Secrecy', 'The Disclosure Project' et. al. had been successful in their attempt to bring about disclosure of the UFO subject?"

My point is this: We cannot affect the past, but we can affect the 'here and now'.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 12:43 PM
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If a similar event occurred at a different time, I think the reaction could have been different.


No doubt.

A big part of what happened after Roswell likely wasn't aimed at keeping the American public in the dark, so much as keeping the Russians and other nations in the dark about what we'd recovered. One simply begat the other...if you told the public, then you also told the world, so an overall strategy had to be devised to deal with future occurances.

All in all, they actually did rather well covering up Roswell given the circumstances. Despite the national attention, they buried the case for decades successfully. Funny thing about keeping secrets....when facing death, consequences of telling them don't mean a whole lot...so people could more easily spill the beans as it were....


Thanks for the mention of my articles there... I see we share the same idea about the hows and whys of the National Security Act. In all the research I've done on that time frame, the whole thing (the Act) seems to have come from "nowhere", I mean the entire reorganization idea... I couldn't see where committees were convened, proposals made, revisions, drafts, etc. It just seems to have sprung into being quite rapidly.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by Divergence
What if in 50 years time, someone were to ask "Would the world be a different place today if groups like 'Citizens Against UFO Secrecy', 'The Disclosure Project' et. al. had been successful in their attempt to bring about disclosure of the UFO subject?"

My point is this: We cannot affect the past, but we can affect the 'here and now'.

Agreed, but if we don't learn from the past, we won't realize the importance of our actions today. I believe if we were able to disclose the secrecy and the coverup, people would be wiser and see the direction that we are taking is the wrong one, and that the people in power shouldn't be trusted. I know most already know this, so then why do we continue to make the same mistakes, like re-electing George Bush?


by Gazrok
In all the research I've done on that time frame, the whole thing (the Act) seems to have come from "nowhere", I mean the entire reorganization idea... I couldn't see where committees were convened, proposals made, revisions, drafts, etc. It just seems to have sprung into being quite rapidly.

That's interesting, I'm sure it was all done behind closed doors. I wonder if this was even covered by the media.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 02:18 PM
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The media wasn't in the habit of questioning the government back then, especially just coming out of wartime....



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 02:28 PM
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What if a "Roswell" type crash occured in broad daylight in a well populated area?

Do you think the government would come clean and say, ok yes these things are real.. or do you think they would still try to keep it contained, secret, and cover it up as best as they could ?

I think the Roswell case opened up peoples mind for government trust. Around this time, people trusted the governments, more so than modern day.

If this said event occured in our time, people would be much more skeptical, and better investigations would be done.

If Roswell is true, its only a matter of time before the information age uncovers the next big case.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if cell phone cams are eventually responsible for blowing the lid off things. Only it would take mutliple witnesses to likely be believable (due to digital imaging technology easily leading some to cry "fake").

Such a daylight crash could easily be covered up though...

(unmanned recon drone with test dummy pilots, built to smaller scale for testing purposes) All they'd have to do is produce a similar looking drone and test dummies to alien bodies (but believable human-looking ones), relatively soon (say a week or two), and the press would easily buy it and unknowingly force feed it to the public. Only if numerous witnesses can see and photograph moving bodies and/or the craft interior before agents get there, would the truth come out.

Just remember the camera card trick kiddies! If you have a digital camera with a memory stick, after getting such pics, stash the memory stick in your socks, underwear, bra, etc.!!!
That way, when (not if) they confiscate your camera, YOU'VE got the pics!!!



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by Dulcimer
What if a "Roswell" type crash occured in broad daylight in a well populated area?

Do you think the government would come clean and say, ok yes these things are real.. or do you think they would still try to keep it contained, secret, and cover it up as best as they could ?

If Roswell is true, its only a matter of time before the information age uncovers the next big case.

That would depend, on a lot of things. If an alien craft crashed or landed in a populated area, day or night, it would be difficult to cover-up, but I think they would try. I don't think taking pictures will give the World the undeniable proof they require. Any film or pictures could be claimed to be from a Hollywood set, or the staple explanation of a secret military craft.

But if it occurred somewhere else other than America, it would be a different story. And if it did, and the World gets their undeniable proof, I believe the government and military would probably act like they knew nothing, and put on a show by sending their top people to investigate. That would be a sight to see.


I would also agree with the way information travels these days, it would be more difficult, and that may be enough to blow the lid off. Especially with people being more educated, if they have souvenirs, they are going to hide it instead of willingly giving it up. One day it may happen.



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 04:58 PM
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Hal9000 wrote:




Another event could have started the chain of events, but given the time frame, would the reaction have been so extreme? Keep in mind, Roswell occurred just after WW2, and the Cold War was just starting. If a similar event occurred at a different time, I think the reaction could have been different.


A different event at a different time would be different but at all periods of human history there have been enemies and reasons to hoard power.

I see all of history as a set of ripples that go forward in time, and sometimes a little backward as they reshape memory slightly. Personally I mark the real start of serious discussion of UFOs with the Battle of LA.


A.T
(-)



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 05:07 PM
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Perhaps we would have had disclosure years ago if the the crash had not occured.
I love the way Speilberg did it in Taken the grays came back and took all the crash debris and the dead et we kept at area 51.
The aliens watched how we handled the crash and thought..'what a bunch of savages'?



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 05:35 PM
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Actually, I feel you have touched on a very-good question. To me, it was the first and only time the U.S. Military announced they had in their hands a crashed saucer.

After that there was a denial and claims of a recovered baloon then a super secret baloon then project mogul nuc detination baloon.

I still think that is why Roswell (in part) is still heavely on the books of young ufology people's imaginations.

Dallas



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by Alexander Tau
I see all of history as a set of ripples that go forward in time, and sometimes a little backward as they reshape memory slightly. Personally I mark the real start of serious discussion of UFOs with the Battle of LA.

Actually, the battle of LA was probably the first mass sighting that was documented well enough to research, but with Roswell it was the first time there was tangible PROOF of alien existence. It was decided to hide this proof, and in order to do it, the intelligence community had to be re-organized. Along with this was a campaign to misinform the public, and create a ridicule factor. This was also to their advantage later because it also helped to hide secret aircraft being made like the U2.

I see this as withholding scientific knowledge hostage. It is no different than what the Catholic Church did during the Middle Ages. Funny how history has a way of repeating.


by siriuslyone
Perhaps we would have had disclosure years ago if the the crash had not occured.

Maybe, or if it occurred at a different time, say before WW2. I think things would have turned out differently. It's hard to imagine how different things would be now.


by Dallas
it was the first and only time the U.S. Military announced they had in their hands a crashed saucer.

As Gazrok pointed out, back then people believed what they were told, so when they changed the story, people believed it. Keep in mind this news would have changed everything, as it would now. People were just settling back into normalcy after war, they didn't need any more excitement.



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 08:08 PM
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Roswell does appear to be the nexus from which everything sprang.

Gazrok makes some very good points, the restructuring of the entire military complex on a 'whim', so to speak, with little or no political wrangling has always struck me as a bit odd.

The cold war did not really start until 1949, two years later, when the Soviet Union detonated her first atomic weapon. I believe that the military saw this as manna from heaven and weren't about to let anyone have 'the golden goose' that had just landed at their feet.

Remember, were talking about Harry S. Truman here, someone in the upper echelon of the Military talked him into covering the whole thing up just like they talked him into nuking Japan. By the time Eisenhower got in office it was too late. MJ12 had it and the uniform of the day was access denied. 'Even you, Mister President', and that's the way it's been ever since.

What about the memo Ramey is holding in the infamous balloon shot and the recent analysis of the Text?

It was right under everyones noses the whole time. It proves that Ramey's death bed confession wasn't a delusional, morphine induced hallucination after all.

I just about fell out of my chair during Jennings' omission of this little detail on that "UFO's Seeing is Believing" back in March, I think it was.

Then he tops it all off with, "The Roswell Incident was just a myth."
Well folks, you heard it here first - gimme a break.



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by Dallas

it was the first and only time the U.S. Military announced they had in their hands a crashed saucer.

Dallas


Yeah, It makes a great cover story for a downed "Top Secret" balloon, doesn't it.



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 08:16 PM
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As I said earlier. It was the first time the U.S. Military admitted to being in possesion of a 'flying saucer'.

Yes.

dallas



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 08:56 PM
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HAL9000 wrote:



Actually, the battle of LA was probably the first mass sighting that was documented well enough to research, but with Roswell it was the first time there was tangible PROOF of alien existence.


Thats the thing I am not so certain that it was the first bit of proof. We know about Roswell because of the press release that created the newspaper story but are we really sure that there was not enough proof for those in power to begin study long before?

No one can argue that Roswell is important, we have a good idea of what happened there so we can surmise about other events. Gazrock mentioned that the CIA and NSA re-org seemed to come from nowhere but that sort of thing takes a lot of time. That is why I really mark the start of the serious UFO activity with LA, if we had a handful of other pictures from that night I think the question would be reasonably settled and I think they did.

It is interesting that I both agree with you HAL that witholding the information is fundamentally wrong, and I also see how it was the reasonable reaction at the time. At some point the line was crossed where the truth should have come out. This seems to be one of those intersections between ideals and common sense.

No matter how fantastic the information, the need to win a War had to come first. The information inspired some people to create plans to study and deal with Alien Life, and then it became reality. In a way it would be quite the cosmic coincidence if the event that went to the public newspapers was actually the peak of the events. I have always thought that the military at Roswell started out the way it should be, proof of existance of life should be something that is shared with humanity.

Oh, I agree that technology like camera phones will probably lead to some remarkable events.


A.T
(-)


[edit on 5-5-2005 by Alexander Tau]



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by Divergence
The cold war did not really start until 1949, two years later, when the Soviet Union detonated her first atomic weapon.

That may be true, I thought it started earlier when the atomic bomb designs and research were passed to the Russians by the Rosenbergs and David Greenglass, but I just found out they were arrested in 1950. I thought this happened earlier.

Still, I'm sure they were concerned about espionage and Soviet agents infiltrating the government and this added to the paranoia of the period. The re-organization compartmentalized all the secret projects, and put everything on a "need to know" basis. So that one person would have access to all the secrets. Well by doing this, that meant that there was no oversight on the projects, which led to defense contractors taking advantage of the situation, and it has been that way ever since.



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