Masonic "misinformers", here is your chance!!!!

I am inspired by all of you to begin writing another book, of which I have three ready for editing and publishing. The bassis of the book is going to be an analogy that symbolizes the two sides of the debate, and how it intrinsically accomplishes wht the masons teach. A balance between forces. The unversal equilibrium:

The opening analogy:

A family of birds is hungry, the baby birds cannot leave the nest. Too fragile and weak to fly/explore the unknown, themselves, they rely on the mother to bring them food. When the mother returns with only worms for every meal, she regurgatates the food into the baby birds' mouths. The helpless chirping birds can do just that, chirp. These birds then finally get the courage to leave the nest upon which they start the process over again. The cycle is complete.
Meanwhile a family of four prepares dinner. Everyone helps prepare, and everyone gets the benefits, The trade of peparing meals is passed fom mother/father, to son/daughter. The feast of a lifetime is laid out buffet style, almost with too much food for four people. The family eats, and has quality time, and they discuss their daily experiences. Everyone learns from eachother in a marketplace of ideas. The family finshes, cleans up and boxes up the leftovers, and brings them down the street to the homeless shelter. Teaching the children the lessons of pitty, and the ability to love.

The Birds represent the cycle of misinformation, based on the old saying, "Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day, but teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime." Who is it that is feeding this misinformation, is it the vast internet and the availability and acees to data on websites?

The symbolism is like this
Mother bird-The internet
Chirping babies-recievers and redistributors of this misinformation.
Worms-Food that is uncultured, and bland, one food.

The parental unit-The masonic brotherhood and the balance (male-female)
The children-New brothers of the fraternity (willing to learn and liten)
the feast (balanced meal)-the vast information, learned through the teacher of the fratenity, also balance
The leftovers-symbol of charity and love for the general community
The family-the close relationships that allow infoemtion to be understood for what it is.

So here is your chance, all of you, come on out of the woodwork, i wanna see what you got for me. I would like links, books, movies, anything that expresses strong anti-masonic sentiment. I am working fast and i still cannot accumulate enough sources to meet my personal deadline, i only have a limited amount of time.

I am not being rude, i am completely serious. Balance is huge to the masonic brotherhood, and you all are keeping the balance as anti-masons. Would it not be true then that they want you to post these links, so that the balance is maintained? Are you playing into their hands by posting these links?

All of these questions answered, and more in my new text "Point-counterpoint, Anti-masons and the Unversal equilibrium."



[edit on 4-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

[edit on 4-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

while i dont completely follow - im glad you're not a whiney internet mason come to make ATS shut up. i like your thesis too;

anti-masons keep the balance - so uh!

-good luck with the book.

The Birds represent the cycle of misinformation, based on the old saying, "Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day, but teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime." Who is it that is feeding this misinformation, is it the vast internet and the availability and acees to data on websites?

What the hell are you trying to say??? All the mis-informers of this site are simply that. It is your choice to give them bait to chew on and wether or not to ignore them. The only way to learn is through experience. You do not teach the man to fish, he teaches himself but you must teach them how to learn for themselves then and only then will people open their eyes and see there is no problem with Masonry.

Yes, yes, yes there were bad apples in Masonry but that does not mean that all Masons are bad people in fact many, many of them are very nice people.

All the "suposed" satanic rituals and symbols are nothing more than that used by the ancients and when bad people started using these symbols then it became reverse symbolism which people like the RCC saw as satanism and bad. I guess everyone has heard of a game called Chinese whispers where everyone gets in a circle and whispers something in someones ear they pass it on etc. and its funny how the whisper changes along the path before it gets back to the original messenger EVERYTIME.

Trying to draw a parallel between two very similar cycles of nature, the nurturing of Offspring. Both accomplish the same thing (protecting the next generation of offspring, and ensuring thier survival). Birds remain birds, they can chirp, and fly but they haven't learned much else from thier mothers. The birds are representing what the anti-masonic movement is destined to do, and that is repeat the same claims over and over again, to repeat the past. Meanwhile the family on the other hand, is a sanctuary of strength and knowledge. The children learn important skills to further their intelligence, they also have the ability to learn form the past, and tha knowledge of experiences can be passed through the generations. Thus not repeating themselves. The family can look up at the family of birds and smile at them, chirping, knowing that that is what birds do, and that is where they belong. I am merely trying to emphasize this point, Anti-masons are right where they belong, offsetting the balance.

True knowledge is a knowledge of both sides of an argument, of only which masons know both, the balance is achieved. They know what they are up against for sure, but do you know enough about masonry to know wht you are up against? no because it's thier secret. Guesswhat anti masons? I just proved your point right there, there is technically no fair argumen with a mason, because they know the information on both sides of the argument, they know the balance. Geez guys, it was really that easy.

The anti-masons merely regugitate infrmation to others , using shock and awe type tactics, sources usually lack credibily (meaning i couldn't use it as a source in a research paper for school, bacause of its inherant bias, or lack of substantiating evidence) or maybe evidence isn't there at all. This is how new-anti masons are taught, using a system of unfounded claims. I am not saying that these people's ideas aren't valuable (i.e. at leat they make peole question the world they live in) i am just saying, that these people are force-fed bad information about masons, because most anti masonic texts are written by non-masons. It is simlar to Bush's bad intelligence during the beginning stages of the war. He had removed himself from his inteligence committe so much, all he ever said is what they wrote down for him to say, he never followed up on his research, and it came back to bite him (no weapons found).

The masons use a system of teaching, that puts eveyone on an even playing field. They teach life lessons and morals to their members. Their members benefit morally, spiritually, and psychologically. Where is this teaching in the texts of the non-masons? This master/apprentice relationship allows a personal relationship to form between the two, something lacking in our public schools.

Maybe anti masons should form underground secret societies, then nobody will know anything. Har-har. I would reccomennd encompassing some sort of middle ground though so you all don't sound so straight up crazy.

[edit on 4-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

[edit on 4-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

Heres a much better Idea!!

Why not just bring all secret societies to a complete stop and find out what all the fuss is about.

All the Masonic stuff, why not practice it publicly. Surely it would bring an end to alot of controversial talk between the masons and anti-masons.

bah - let em' have their trivial little secrets....

-press the 'sarcasm button' for the next segment...

"some of these men have been transformed by masonry, turning their pointless lives into something of meaning. for goodness sakes -they learned how to share! (happy tears) and they do sooo much charity.

at the end of the day they share a keg- and pass little winks of status back and forth to other men who like themselves are.... dun ta DUUHUUHHH... *Fellow Masons*

...........oh how special you can feel, once a mason................

The leftovers-symbol of charity and love for the general community

So leftovers for us huh. Why don't you invite the general community at dinning table?

Bad analogys in this whole thread. Just another Masonic crusade I'm affraid.

Most masonic secrets, aren't really secrets at all. They remain in plain view of all of you, tha masons however belive that you and me aren't worthy to recieve the knowledge. And I happen to think that they are right. It is hard to bring across the TRUE meaning of my work, because you all just don't want to see it, SURPRISE! There is is in front of you laid out. The left overs aren't just for us, they are a symbol of the brotherhood's ability to be charatible, do you donate as much as they do? If so can i see some tax reciepts, dont have any, oh i thought so. I learned the gift of charity early on in life, apparently you didn't, for that i'm sorry, looks like you got the meaning wrong again. I am the Author Only i know thwe true extent of MY work, or are you the expert now. Should i step aside and take the time to ponder you intellects, because you obviously know what I am thinking Merely calling it a "bad analogy, all around" is merely representstive of the fact that you cannot grap the author's intent. Truly inteligent people ask questions, and try to learn, so that can knw what they are taliking about, so they can have inteligent discussions. This is all just too easy.

You have proven to me you aren't worthy of the knowledge presented here and by the masons, because you have an inabilty to make judgements without following up and asking the author's intent. So please check these facts before you pass judgement, I told you i don't have time for this, i really need what you have as information for your side, or do you not have anything worthwhile? Did you ever read a book in a class, and discuss it socratically? Or were you that guy who read cliff's notes, and sparknotes, and then claimed to have read the book, and started dscusssions wihtout actually reading it thouroughly?

After all mine is just a story, filled with symbols, an analogy, that i thought was simple to understand, but apparently needs explanations for people who don't have to listen because they think they know the answer. In fact is it not possible for the story to have two meanings? These people are generally refered to as "closed minded", something shared between religios extremists, and conspiracy theroists. Wow this is getting easier ans easier, look at the middle ground of the arguments i make, they make others look like they are wasting their time. There are symbols everywhere, as well as within my story, to gain a true understanding ot the book, try asking the author rather than pretend like you know what i'm talking about. Albert Pike was a genius, Alex Jones, is a little paranoid. see where i'm going. maybe it is time to admit that these people might know a little more than you. Why not take some tim out of the busy schedule of internet posting, and join masonry? You can do it, all of you. What's the worst that could happen, you might like it? Oh god NOOOOOO! And if you come to find it is not for you well i guess you're screwed, because you obviously cannot just STOP GOING. Wow, are you all relly that lazy? The secrets are concealed, in a builing, with an open door policy to anyone seeking what they teach, sounds like they're plotting something to me. You all just want to be spoon fed, and that is why this discussion will never be anything but a two bit bastardized version of the truth. Why don't you all go join masonry, so we can have an intelligent debate teogether, united as a community of intellectuals, like the masons would want.

Microchosoms are small displays of what happens on a large scale. Look at us, whay does it always turn into this? I would think that by now all of you would realize that these ideas are very tired. And franky I am sick and tired of it, so i'm writing a book in order to try and demonstrate that the true mystery is that you are playing right into thier hands, dude.. what are you doing, repeating arguments that have already been played out like a britney sprars record? Might as well get a job as a parrot.

(***sound of thumbs twiddling, crickets chirping, sound of my head baning up against wall.***)

I don't calim to know anything about the truth, i just don't make things into what they are CLEARLY NOT. care to try again?



[edit on 4-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

[edit on 4-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

[edit on 4-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

Originally posted by lost
bah - let em' have their trivial little secrets....

-press the 'sarcasm button' for the next segment...

"some of these men have been transformed by masonry, turning their pointless lives into something of meaning. for goodness sakes -they learned how to share!

(happy tears) and they do sooo much charity.

at the end of the day they share a keg- and pass little winks of status back and forth to other men who like themselves are.... dun ta DUUHUUHHH... *Fellow Masons*

...........oh how special you can feel, once a mason................

Hush now. You sound like nothing but a jealous little baby. I'll keep my "trivial" little secrets and you keep your "trivial" little whinings to yourself.




EyeofHorus, there is no balance in the mason/antimason argument. Tell me what an antimason can bring to the table in the way of reasoning or logic, or even truth?

I think this page sums things up pretty nicely.

home.swipnet.se...

So where's your balance there?
Freemasons - loads of thinkers, doers, geniuses, philanthropists.
Anti-masons - liars, non-entities, losers.
It's a no-contest. The antis only get heard because they make noise - their content is crap but their volume is loud.

As for anti-masons forming their own societies? I'd love to see it happen, but by their very nature of egotistical bitchiness and bloated self worth, any society where two or more of their sort gets together is going to be doomed to failiure. Can you imagine it? These people have a hard enough time liking themselves let alone being able to communicate and co-operate with others. It would never get off the ground. Look at all of the anti-mason sites and groups out there now for example. They are all controlled by single people who run them like despots - if you disagree with the head honcho you're out. Go take a look at the anti-freemason forums and see how many people they have banned for doing nothing more than expressing opinions. They're laughable.
The conspiracy discussion shouldn't be over wether or not Freemasons are good or bad but why an anti-mason tends to be the type of person who is generally regarded as being an asshole by any other decent human being in society!!!



[edit on 4-5-2005 by Leveller]

The phrase "the blind leading the blind" comes to mind. I as well as the masons have the ability to see it this way, i can ignore it with the best of 'em. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they open their trap anf prove to me that they deserve otherwise. I believe that masonry is ONE answer to the question of enlightnenment, but then again so is buddhism, pike just rips off most of their philosophy. He even admits it. There is no one path to spirituality. You probably known as well as i do, that soenome who is not motivated to learn, will not learn. Period.

I beg to differ, i see balance. The masons, as the educated people who are destined to lead, and make great things fo themeselves. Anti's are destined to repeat themesleves, posting on the internet. It is the balace of the power of intelligence (the light), offset by the claims of the ignroant (the darkeness). Sounds Exactly like what i READ in morals and dogma.

It is not my fault that these people choose to be divided. Maybe if they networked a little bit, they would be able to separate fact from hillarious fiction. It is an issue of motivation is what i am saying. Heck with the right motivation anything is possible. The problem is that it would probably take a mason to spearhead the project, so that real work and research actually gets done. But that is just what I have OBSERVED from these discussion boards. Your discriptions of the factions of anti-masonry seem to show an exact polar oppisite to masonry (a united brotherhood vs. a divided factions that refuse to cooperate) Sounds like Yin and Yang to me.


[edit on 4-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

[edit on 4-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
"The Birds represent the cycle of misinformation, based on the old saying, "Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day, but teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime." Who is it that is feeding this misinformation, is it the vast internet and the availability and acees to data on websites?
What the hell are you trying to say??? All the mis-informers of this site are simply that. It is your choice to give them bait to chew on and wether or not to ignore them. The only way to learn is through experience. You do not teach the man to fish, he teaches himself but you must teach them how to learn for themselves then and only then will people open their eyes and see there is no problem with Masonry.

Yes, yes, yes there were bad apples in Masonry but that does not mean that all Masons are bad people in fact many, many of them are very nice people.


All the "suposed" satanic rituals and symbols are nothing more than that used by the ancients and when bad people started using these symbols then it became reverse symbolism which people like the RCC saw as satanism and bad. I guess everyone has heard of a game called Chinese whispers where everyone gets in a circle and whispers something in someones ear they pass it on etc. and its funny how the whisper changes along the path before it gets back to the original messenger EVERYTIME."

Not saying they're bad i know masons whom i hold of highest esteem, I am actullay trying to prove that they are the ones causing all the distress they recieve. Not the secrets themselves, but the secrecy of the organization cause these people (antis) to say and think what they do. So any mason who is pissed off at antis for being so uneducated, can only blame themselves and thier organization. They are the cause that creates the effect. There would be no "crazy anti-mainsons, wihtout the secrecy of masons. However, it is the lack of good information that perpetuates the misinformation further. But that funny thing is that thier secrets could technically be found by anyone, who knows how to see them who is initated in their sectrets. (do i know this key? more than likely not, but i would never admit it if i did) Becuse if it were a bunch of people would probably rape it of all of of its meaning, then stomp on it, bastadrize it then turn it into something that it isn't. Although the secrecy of the masons is nothing compared to that of the Qabablists. The fact the masons are so mainstrem, respectively makes it easier for everyone to relate to. They are still "an open society with secrets" to borrow a hist'ry cahnnel quote.

You crafty masons, this must be absolutely hillarious to watch. A bunch of peolpe arguing about secrets of which they haven't the slightest idea how to interperit, but all claim to be experts in their field of conspiracy. I just wish I was in your shoes every once in a while laughing with you...someday (soon).

In my fraternity there are things that are shrouded in secrecy, hidden from our candidates. They are deemed, not worthy to recieve the information until they have proven that they have the capabilty to listen and learn. And our secret, a bunch of symbols that represent our values? Wow what a barn burner! The world will never be the same. BTW the first part of our shory creed is in my signature, sounds like a terrible secret organization bent on perpetuating the scandal of LOVE, HONOR, and TRUTH. Oh, and our strict no hazing policy, almost forgot, We as knights of the legion of honor (Sigma NU) believe in treting new initiates like men, not belittileing them like boys. I have heard it all let me tell you, people ask: Did they make you do the elepahnt crawl? Dit they paddle you? To which I am usually forced to respond: No, &%*#-ing grow up! you immature moron, you are sick for even having thought that. As you can clearly see our fratenity was formed (est 1869) to ccombat the ignorance of peole at VMI who constantly hazed others. We are protectors of the innocent, and defenders of the life the way and the light. Or fratenity has secres which i cannot divulge to you all, but i can give you my word as a Sigma Nu (which is good as gold i might add), That none of these secrets involve secret agendas of satanism, or world domination.



[edit on 4-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

Originally posted by Eyeofhorus
Most masonic secrets, aren't really secrets at all. They remain in plain view of all of you, tha masons however belive that you and me aren't worthy to recieve the knowledge.

There is abslutely no truth to that. There's no SECRET KNOWLEDGE, so get over it. Our lessons can ALL be found in the bible, and every man and woman is worthy of that. But OUR RITUALS AND MODES OF TEACHING ARE SPECIAL TO US. It does not mean we think people are unworthy, but we are trying to preserve their sanctity by keeping them private.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by Eyeofhorus
Most masonic secrets, aren't really secrets at all. They remain in plain view of all of you, tha masons however belive that you and me aren't worthy to recieve the knowledge.

There is abslutely no truth to that. There's no SECRET KNOWLEDGE, so get over it. Our lessons can ALL be found in the bible, and every man and woman is worthy of that. But OUR RITUALS AND MODES OF TEACHING ARE SPECIAL TO US. It does not mean we think people are unworthy, but we are trying to preserve their sanctity by keeping them private.

Mos people would try to prove how wrong you are right here. I am going to demonstrate that it is possible to learn form someone who knows more about this topic.

Seb definately helped put this into perspective for me. The most imprtant quote in this post is:

It does not mean we think people are unworthy, but we are trying to preserve their sanctity by keeping them private.

I agree, i can relate, our symbols would mean nothing to my fraternity if eveyone knew what they meant. I went just a bit too far with my words.
No problem, the discussion can move on.

Is ritual considered a sacred text?

"Thus, the knowledge now imparted by books and letters, was of old conveyed by symbols; and the preists invented or perpetuated a diaplay of rites and exhibitionswhich are not only more attractive to the eye, but often more suggestive and more pregnant with meaning to the mind.
Masonry, succesor of the Mysteries, sill follows the ancient manner of teaching. Her ceremonies are like the ancient mystic shows,-not the reading of an essay, but the opening of a problem, requiring reasearch, and constituing philosophy the arch expounder"
-Pike M&D pp.22

A beautiful passage really, couldn't have said it any more perfeclty.

[edit on 4-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

[edit on 4-5-2005 by Eyeofhorus]

Man... I really don't know why so many masons here are so touchy-feely when somebody gets as close as questioning the legitimacy of their organization in society, or asking themselves if Freemasonry would not be what it pretend it is!

I always considered doubt as a sign of intelligence and as a normal process towards learning new things, new aspects of this world. Of course there are stupid on the internet (and on ATS too) that keeping putting all the blame on Freemasonry and spawning crazy theories such as that they are a bunch of reptilian-controlled slaves who are working towards creating an alien-backed NWO, but it's just plain dishonest or either fanatical, on behalf of freemasons, to repudiate ANYONE who wonders about possible scenarios of freemasonry being implicitly involved into shaping society in a particular way.

There are secret conspiracies in this world, there has always been. As soon as there's a concentration of power and material interests, people have the tendency to hide information for the sake of their rackets to work. Most of the time they don't have a global range, but there are strategies, courses of action and global policy undertaken by the rich governments right now tht can easily be interpreted as being there for creating somekind of anglo-western capitalist world tyranny (i.e. a world government... since the EU and the OAS are already rising in power), and it's under development at least since the end of WW 2, and this could be understood as a conspiracy since it is planned by a nore or less defined group of people, for more or less precise goals. To say that Freemasons are involved into this, and how they are... this is another thing. But this is a secretive organisation, and as long as there are millions of people and probably billions involved into a secretive global society which MIGHT have political and financial influence that are not limited to financing shools and hospitals for kids, the reasosn there are to be concerned are understandable, to the least.

[edit on 4/5/05 by Echtelion]

[edit on 4/5/05 by Echtelion]

Originally posted by Echtelion
Man... I really don't know why so many masons here are so touchy-feely when somebody gets as close as questioning the legitimacy of their organization in society, or asking themselves if Freemasonry would not be what it pretend it is!

I always considered doubt as a sign of intelligence and as a normal process towards learning new things, new aspects of this world. Of course there are stupid on the internet (and on ATS too) that keeping putting all the blame on Freemasonry and spawning crazy theories such as that they are a bunch of reptilian-controlled slaves who are working towards creating an alien-backed NWO, but it's just plain dishonest or either fanatical, on behalf of freemasons, to repudiate ANYONE who wonders about possible scenarios of freemasonry being implicitly involved into shaping society in a particular way.

There are secret conspiracies in this world, there has always been. As soon as there's a concentration of power and material interests, people have the tendency to hide information for the sake of their rackets to work. Most of the time they don't have a global range, but there are strategies, courses of action and global policy undertaken by the rich governments right now tht can easily be interpreted as being there for creating somekind of anglo-western capitalist world tyranny (i.e. a world government... since the EU and the OAS are already rising in power), and it's under development at least since the end of WW 2, and this could be understood as a conspiracy since it is planned by a nore or less defined group of people, for more or less precise goals. To say that Freemasons are involved into this, and how they are... this is another thing. But this is a secretive organisation, and as long as there are millions of people and probably billions involved into a secretive global society which MIGHT have political and financial influence that are not limited to financing shools and hospitals for kids, the reasosn there are to be concerned are understandable, to the least.

I like your post, but you are mistaken as to what our stance is rearding critics of freemasonry. We accept, we like, we ENCOURAGE a good discussion about Freemasonry. But there are some thing that are JUST NOT TRUE. We can see those things, because WE are Freemasons and we know what our organization is like. So don't be confused as to our reactions regarding claims against Freemasonry. There's discussions that go on here all the time regarding criticisms of Freemasonry that we believe are legitimate. But most of the time, this is not the case, and we just HAVE to call a bluff.

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
Heres a much better Idea!!

Why not just bring all secret societies to a complete stop and find out what all the fuss is about.

All the Masonic stuff, why not practice it publicly. Surely it would bring an end to alot of controversial talk between the masons and anti-masons.

Yeah...but that would make it "common-place" and it wouldn't be Freemasonry. It's much more intriguing to hide it in plain view and laugh at those who make a BIG deal out of something that is so blatantly obvious.

Eyeofhorus, I think I like you Yes, cant we just get along......... Well, sure, we can work together if they loose the arrogant (your not worthy) attitude.

I have been working on a theory that isnt quite ready for prime time. Oh, not because I dont have the pieces of the puzzle, I have more than enough. Its just that when you put the pieces together the puzzle is hidden behind freemasonry. Eyeofhorus, as you said, the pieces are in plane sight, if you can see behind the secret keepers.

Im extremely confused here with you eyeofhorus. I read your first post and it seemed like you wanted a non partisan reply to your post. Sounded as if you would like both sides to contribute to your post. While continueing to read this discussion you turned partisan. If your true intention is to gather more information for your book, I'd suggest you hold back your personal feelings towards masonry and coach this discussion in a manner that isnt destructive but constructive. Drop the partisan attitude please. Im still sitting on that fence trying to understand freemasons.

[edit on 5-5-2005 by madmangunradio]

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Eyeofhorus, I think I like you

Yes, cant we just get along......... Well, sure, we can work together if they loose the arrogant (your not worthy) attitude.

I have been working on a theory that isnt quite ready for prime time. Oh, not because I dont have the pieces of the puzzle, I have more than enough. Its just that when you put the pieces together the puzzle is hidden behind freemasonry. Eyeofhorus, as you said, the pieces are in plane sight, if you can see behind the secret keepers.

Lets hear it then!

I guess its easier to pick and choose your fights but I want you to understand that Im still sitting here wondering if masons are good or bad. You still have a chance to save face here rather than continue being antagonistic and partisan.