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A brief British military history

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posted on May, 4 2005 @ 04:19 AM
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Some people have been thinking that countries other than France are never or rarely defeated. Here’s a brief English military history.

The Roman Conquest
England was conquered and Emperor Hadrian ordered a construction of fortifications along the Scottish border because he didn’t want any more conquests. The Roman Empire was big anyway.

Normandian Conquest
England was conquered by William the Conqueror, Prince of Normandy.

War against France in the 13th century
Both the English King John and the German Emperor Otto IV were defeated by the French king Philip II.

Papal Interdict upon England
Pope Innocent III instituted an interdict upon England which he canceled when John considered himself dependent of the Pope.

The Hundred Years War
After a long war England has been defeated and its only continental possession on the continent was Calais.

Wars against the French Revolution
Both England and other enemies of the French Revolution (for example Prussia and Austria) were defeated.

Napoleonic Wars
It took around 15 years for Napoleon’s enemies to defeat him. England didn’t win these wars alone. Prussia, Austria and some other countries also participated in fighting against Napoleon. And if it wasn’t for the Prussian general Gebhard Bluecher, who helped Prince Wellington in the last minute, Prince Wellington would be defeated.

World War I
Germany was defeated mainly because the French defeated the German army at Marne.

World War II
If the US hadn’t been supporting Great Britain, it would be occupied by Germany. Also, the following remark needs to be taken regarding the battle of Monte Cassino: the British and the Americans were so scared because of their failures that the Poles had to go up the mountain to show the British and the Americans how to do the job.

War with Argentina
I don’t know who won but it doesn’t matter. If the British won, why are still the Falklands a territory of dispute?



[edit on 4-5-2005 by AtheiX]



JAK

posted on May, 4 2005 @ 04:47 AM
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Wow!

You mean the British are not undefeated in battle???


Oh - my - gosh!! Astounding news!!!

Atheix, I'm not sure what has 'got your goat', but some of the most widely know about episodes in British history are;

The Battle of Balaclava (Ukraine) in the Crimean War (1854-56).

The 'miracle' of Dunkirk

And

Operation 'Market-Garden' the largest airborne battle in history and here RememberSeptember44

Take a little time to see if you can find any link between the above mentioned episodes. Then think again whether the British army of people would consider themselves undefeated.



Originally posted by AtheiX
War with Argentina
I don’t know who won but it doesn’t matter.


Of course it does, the point of this thread is to show (to whom I am unsure) that the British army are not invincible. You have created a list of defeats or instances where the British were only on the sucessfull side through the action of others, then you put in a 'conflict' that it is widely accepted the British came out winners of (if such a term can be used). If it does not matter then why not include the numerous victories the British army has had?

From here AtheiX, it just looks as though you have some kind of chip on your shoulder and are having a little whine.

Jack

[edit on 4/5/05 by JAK]



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 05:11 AM
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Originally posted by JAK


You mean the British are not undefeated in battle???

I mean the British were often defeated.


Originally posted by JAK
Atheix, I'm not sure what has 'got your goat', but some of the most widely know about episodes in British history are;

The Battle of Balaclava (Ukraine) in the Crimean War (1854-56).

Regarding the Crimean war it was not only Great Britain but also France and Austria who won that war.

[edit on 4-5-2005 by AtheiX]


JAK

posted on May, 4 2005 @ 05:23 AM
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Originally posted by AtheiX
Regarding the Crimean war it was not only Great Britain but also France and Austria who won that war.


Atheix, I think you misunderstood my post.

The three memorable British military events I listed were considered respectively;
    #1 A great and tragic waste of life that gained nothing. (By which I mean a complete #)

    #2 A humiliating withdrawal.
and (despite being the largest airborne battle in history)
    #3 Another plan resulting in faiilure.
The post you offer has nothing to do with why I mentioned that event. It was to show you that far from your opinion which seems to presume that so many are unaware of any defeats of the British militarily, it's defeats are some of it's most remembered events.


Originally posted by JAK
You mean the British are not undefeated in battle???


That was sarcasm.

Jack

[edit on 4/5/05 by JAK]



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 12:52 PM
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Atheix, your original post was puerile and uninformed.

I will give one example of where you went wrong and then after that I really can't be bothered refuting such ignorant tosh.

Your first example, the Roman conquest.

First mistake, England did not exist as a nation so how could it be defeated? Rome invaded and conquered a land characterised by being inhabited by various independant tribes, it was these tribes that were conquered.

second mistake, Hadrians wall was built to keep the Scots and Picts OUT, not because Rome 'didn't want' to go any further. Sheesh, what a gimp.

Don't comment on history if you don't know the first thing you are on about.

And before you go on about this being an informal chit chat board and how I took your post too seriously, why choose that subject at all (as well as the other countries you have wittered about)?



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by waynos
Atheix, your original post was and uninformed.
Not it wasn't.

Originally posted by waynos
I will give one example of where you went wrong and then after that I really can't be bothered refuting such ignorant tosh.
My post wasn't ignorant.

Originally posted by waynos
Your first example, the Roman conquest.

First mistake, England did not exist as a nation so how could it be defeated? Rome invaded and conquered a land characterised by being inhabited by various independant tribes, it was these tribes that were conquered.
But people who posted about France's losses counted the Roman conquest. Since the Roman conquest is counted when we're talking about France's losses it is counted also if we're talking about Great Britain's losses.

Originally posted by waynos
second mistake, Hadrians wall was built to keep the Scots and Picts OUT, not because Rome 'didn't want' to go any further. Sheesh, what a gimp.
Hadrian didn't need to keep the Scots and Picts out. He could have send Roman legions to Scotland and take over Scotland but he didn't want to do that because the Roman empire was already big.

Originally posted by waynos
you don't know the first thing you are on about.
I do.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by AtheiX
The Roman Conquest
England was conquered and Emperor Hadrian ordered a construction of fortifications along the Scottish border because he didn’t want any more conquests. The Roman Empire was big anyway.


True under the common image, but may in fact not be true, not so long ago I watched a documentry that in fact shows that the Romans were in fact invited by a potentially powerful Kingdom in southern 'Britannia' for the purpose of profit and general whup ass of rival Kingdoms. I can't remember what the Romans got out of it but there is examples of architecture and coins that were in play before the Romans were believed to have ''conquered'' much of Britannia.


The Hundred Years War
After a long war England has been defeated and its only continental possession on the continent was Calais.


Thats right we kick arse for god knows how long and then they win at the end....how typically french



World War I
Germany was defeated mainly because the French defeated the German army at Marne.


Yer, they basically did it on their own didn't they....stuff the other countries who took part :shk:


World War II
If the US hadn’t been supporting Great Britain, it would be occupied by Germany. Also, the following remark needs to be taken regarding the battle of Monte Cassino: the British and the Americans were so scared because of their failures that the Poles had to go up the mountain to show the British and the Americans how to do the job.


I'm sorry did we lose....no.....


War with Argentina
I don’t know who won but it doesn’t matter. If the British won, why are still the Falklands a territory of dispute?


We won....nuff said



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 01:57 PM
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Yer, they basically did it on their own didn't they....stuff the other countries who took part :shk:
Not on their own because the British and the Americans (and some other nations) also fought against Germany but it was mainly France who defeated Germany.


I'm sorry did we lose....no.....
But without the Americans' and Poles' help you would lose.


We won....nuff said

You did but it doesn't matter because still the Falklands are a territory of dispute.



posted on May, 4 2005 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by AtheiX
You did but it doesn't matter because still the Falklands are a territory of dispute.


No, they arent. Argentina still consider them theirs, we consider them ours and as we OWN them and we successfully defended them, there is no dispute. Thats like saying theres a dispute of ownership when someone steals your car and insists its his, even when you have full ownership rights.

Basically, the Falklands war goes like this -

Argentina suffers a financial low, and to cover their failures the military Junta in control decides to deal with something that is a case of national pride and invade the Falkland islands. They worked on the premise that the UK didnt actually really care about the Islands and wouldnt bother sending troops to the other side of the world to fight over what amounted to around 100km/sq of land. They were wrong.

The UK sent a task force, we kicked the Argentine butt, including sinking the Argentine Navys flagship, the Belgrano Battlecruiser, and frightening the rest of the Argentine Navy back into port. We lost 7 ships in total, they lost half their Airforce and over 1000 troops.

Shortly after we retook the islands, the military Junta was overthrown and a democratic government installed.



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 10:52 AM
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Atheix, one crucial difference between the posts. The ones I read aboput France were firmly tongue in cheek and humourous. Yours was just plain daft.



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