YOU were FORCED to be a christian / catholic!!!

[edit on 5-5-2005 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by marg6043


Its has never "been sins in my life" but life experiences and good outcomes, I don't call life trial's "sins"

I'm not talking about trials either. Have you ever told a lie since you were born?

Originally posted by dbrandt

I'm not talking about trials either. Have you ever told a lie since you were born?

My friend if you worry about the littler things in life I wounder if you go into a depression attack when the real things do really happend.

Go feed the hungry and help the elderly that out to make your life brighter, rather than siting down overwhelm about how many lies you had told in your life time or how many sins your are guilty off.

Remember you just human, you were not mean to be perfect.

You have doubts in your life after all.

I'm not talking about trials either. Have you ever told a lie since you were born?

Perhaps with the instincts (knowledge/information) provided to us by our predicesors is the lie we accept as truth before we know any better. So, if our instincts lie to us, then we are born lying to ourselves. Just perhaps ....


Mod Edit: to fix quote.

[edit on 5-5-2005 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Croat56
Would you rather take the chance of a child not being baptized and end up in hell?

Infant baptism does not cause that child to be saved. If a child dies, it would go to be with the Lord because God is merciful. There is an age, when with the information you have concerning Christ, you must make a decision to accept or reject Him. My ex father in law is married to someone in the catholic faith and he is not. He is 70 something and should have died from emphysema a couple of your ago. He was in a semi-coma and the Drs. said he wouldn't make it. TextHis wife had a preist come in and the priest put a little water on his head to baptise him and then told her his sins are forgiven. He was unconscious. That does not forgive sins, He has heard of Christ before and rejected Him.

You might not understand that the Catholic Church believes that Christ bestowed upon priests Textthe power to forgive sins. If a priest forgives someones' sins then those sins are forgiven because he was given those powers from Christ. The Church in recent times established the Sacrament of Reconciliation but that was originally the Sacrament of Confession. The Church established some criteria that need be followed but, ultimately, the power to forgive sins -- especially at the time of imminent death and unconsciousness -- gives the priest that authority. Because the patient is unconscious, the priest is unable to ascertain the patient's final intent so to be on the safe side, the priest can forgive the man's sins. Hey....why not? I'd rather be on the safe side myself....you know....just in case.

Originally posted by marg6043

My friend if you worry about the littler things in life I wounder if you go into a depression attack when the real things do really happend.

Go feed the hungry and help the elderly that out to make your life brighter, rather than siting down overwhelm about how many lies you had told in your life time or how many sins your are guilty off.

Remember you just human, you were not mean to be perfect.

You have doubts in your life after all.

My point is sins have to be dealt with, and everyone has and will commit them. If someone glosses over everything, as if they do no wrong, nothing will be learned and progress won't be made(the same is true for things that are right and just). Things that a person does that are habitual that that person needs to stop doing because it's sin will never be addressed.
God wants a change in us through Christ.

Originally posted by they see ALL
maybe around 18 years of age, you move out and you do not go to church anymore...

this is an exception...

but remember: it is hard to leave because this "truth" is in your head...

Since I started primary school I kept asking 'but how?' the dinosaurs [satan put the bones there of course to fool us about the age of the planet ], cain and abel and if they bred with their unmentioned sisters or eve.. it seemed silly from the onset. It gave me something to think relatively from I guess.. the box was made of concrete so had fun taking a sledgehammer to it. The unsatisfying part was when I became an atheist it was not for spite but through logic..
Well maybe when my ex priest tells me god loves me I'll reveal it for spite.

The 'truth' is always relative.. as is everything else. Can't beat fact though.

[edit on 6-5-2005 by riley]

Originally posted by dbrandt
Things that a person does that are habitual that that person needs to stop doing because it's sin will never be addressed.
God wants a change in us through Christ.

See you have to many "Idols" to rely on salvation, the bible idol, the Christ idol, the religion idol, and that take away the true meaning of existence.

Pleasing to many idols takes all your time, I only please my creator because he was the one that is allowing me to come to this earth and learn the "human experiences".

I hope you find one day the true meaning of life, I did.

That is why is no anger, or deception in my hart but a very good feeling of well being, and a better understanding of my surroundings and the beauty of been alive.

Marg.

I am finish with this thread dbrant may the light open your eyes, so you can start living in peace and love among your fellow human beings.

Thankyou dbrandt, unable to reply u2u, not enough posts (this being the 2nd). The answer is yes to your queries but still dont feel Ive really met Him.

I wonder if being raised in a religious environment makes the acceptance of God easier because we are familiar with the concept. I think perhaps my own upbringing without religion makes it more difficult to establish faith. I cant be sure of this though because I have heard of people turning their whole lives around suddenly after being convicted of Gods love.
Yet I have met people who deny basics facts because they believe it negates biblical text. I believe it can stand alongside it but thats just my opinion.

I would like my child to think freely I just hope his struggle is not as hard as mine. As he gets older I will be honest about my faith and my doubts. I think it would be morally wrong to teach my child to believe something 100% when I am not 100% sure myself.

Originally posted by they see ALL
YOU were FORCED to be a christian / catholic!!!

yes...

it is true...

you see, when you were baptised (as a baby), your parent had the final word...

you couldn't talk because you were a baby...

so they chose for you!!!

then, when making the sacrament of communion, you are still a "kid" and, by this time, are "brainwashed" to believe that this religion is the only true religion...

by brainwashing i mean: being told the same thing over and over again until your mind knows it as "true"...

then, as you make more sacraments, you are only getting "brainwashed" even more...

then, after making confirmation, you are a "man" or "woman" in the faith...

it is up to you to go to church and follow the rules, and not your parents...

by this time, the idea of christianity as being the ONLY truth is in your head and you cannot get it out...

and, its not like your parents will allow you to leave the church...

maybe around 18 years of age, you move out and you do not go to church anymore...

this is an exception...

but remember: it is hard to leave because this "truth" is in your head...

so:

your parents chose your beliefs for you (as the rule states: "when you mary, you say you will raise your child as a christian") because you couldn't even defend your beliefs or thoughts...

then, you are raised as a christian and this "truth" is true for you and it is very hard to get this out of your mind...

what is my point???

my point is:

to think about YOUR religion and make a choice about what YOU want to do with your life...

thank you...

cant this be applied to other religions? its the same thing, if you were born to jewish parents they'd "force" you to be jewish, and the same this with islam. if you were born to muslim parents you would be "forced" to be a muslim.

why all the flaming christianity when you can apply this reasoning to other religions. is flaming judaism and islam wrong? is it open season on christianaity? "no lets not flam other religions because its not PC"

everyone was "forced" to be anything when they were growing up.

children born to christian parents were "forced" to be christians
children borm to jewish parents were "forced" to be jewish
children born to islamic parents were "forced" to be muslims
children born to a buhdist(sp) were "forced" to be buhdist


you reasoning is flawed because this can be put towards other religions


i could do on and on, but i have a model ship to work on

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
cant this be applied to other religions? its the same thing, if you were born to jewish parents they'd "force" you to be jewish, and the same this with islam. if you were born to muslim parents you would be "forced" to be a muslim.

why all the flaming christianity when you can apply this reasoning to other religions. is flaming judaism and islam wrong? is it open season on christianaity? "no lets not flam other religions because its not PC"

everyone was "forced" to be anything when they were growing up.

children born to christian parents were "forced" to be christians
children borm to jewish parents were "forced" to be jewish
children born to islamic parents were "forced" to be muslims
children born to a buhdist(sp) were "forced" to be buhdist


you reasoning is flawed because this can be put towards other religions


i could do on and on, but i have a model ship to work on

atheists aren't forced...

not ALL christians force their kids to be christian...

if they're smart, they will not...

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant


You might not understand that the Catholic Church believes that Christ bestowed upon priests Textthe power to forgive sins.Because the patient is unconscious, the priest is unable to ascertain the patient's final intent so to be on the safe side, the priest can forgive the man's sins. Hey....why not? I'd rather be on the safe side myself....you know....just in case.

Because it's not Biblical for an unconscious man to have a liitle water put on his forehead and have his sins pronounced forgiven. Forgiveness of someone's sins is done through the acceptance of Christ as Savior. And it is act of the will for the individual that is being forgiven.

Originally posted by marg6043

I am finish with this thread dbrant may the light open your eyes, so you can start living in peace and love among your fellow human beings.

On the off chance you aren't through. The meaning of life to you is.........?


Also, why stop posting on a subject?

Originally posted by they see ALL

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
cant this be applied to other religions? its the same thing, if you were born to jewish parents they'd "force" you to be jewish, and the same this with islam. if you were born to muslim parents you would be "forced" to be a muslim.

why all the flaming christianity when you can apply this reasoning to other religions. is flaming judaism and islam wrong? is it open season on christianaity? "no lets not flam other religions because its not PC"

everyone was "forced" to be anything when they were growing up.

children born to christian parents were "forced" to be christians
children borm to jewish parents were "forced" to be jewish
children born to islamic parents were "forced" to be muslims
children born to a buhdist(sp) were "forced" to be buhdist


you reasoning is flawed because this can be put towards other religions


i could do on and on, but i have a model ship to work on

atheists aren't forced...

not ALL christians force their kids to be christian...

if they're smart, they will not...

well what i said before applies to most religions so you cant just slap it on christianity.

This thread is about been forced to be a Christian/catholic, we deviated to another topic and is not fair.

Plus I posted my views on the other subject and I am finished.

Had to work in my garden, I am very proud I have the most beautiful flower garden in the area.

I am gifted with good hands for planting.............love nature you know.

Originally posted by they see ALL
atheists aren't forced...

not ALL Christians force their kids to be Christian...

if they're smart, they will not...

Do you mean to tell me that atheist parents who raise their children to believe that it is impossible for there to be such a thing as a god, are in some way different than parents who teach their children to believe in a god? How is it only brainwashing when a child is taught TO believe in something, but not when they are taught NOT TO believe in something?

All parents teach their children the things which they hold to be true. My mother believes that Christianity is the ultimate truth. When I was a child, I was taught to believe in the same things as my mother did. As time went by and I began to think for myself, I instinctively started to question the things that didn't make sense in her religion. Eventually, I chose not to adhere to any religion, much to the dismay of my mom.

To this day, she fears for my soul, because she knows that I no longer subscribe to her beliefs. She isn't angry because I chose not to be a "Christian", rather she is afraid for me, because she truly believes that Christian "Salvation" is the only way to get into Heaven. Since I don't share her beliefs, I am going to end up in Hell after I die.

Now, I could resent the fact that I was forced to attend, not only, a Christian church, but also a Christian school, my entire pre-adult life; or that I was never taught anything about what other people believe (other than how all other religions were decoys from the devil); or that I wasn't allowed to listen to secular music (other than golden oldies) growing up; but there would be no point in doing that. Not only would it be a slap to the face of my parents, who sacrificed a lot of themselves in order to raise me in the best way they could; but it would also ignore everything good that I learned and experienced in my youth.

Yes, I was indoctrinated for about 15 years to believe in Christianity as the one true faith, but I also have the ability to understand the Christian perspective on things. I have a great amount of respect for those rare, true Christians, like my mom, who live as examples of their faith and are not hypocrites.

Yes, as a child I hated the fact that my parents wouldn't let me attend public school, have a TV., or listen to secular music, but they did allow me to have close friends, who attended public school, had TV’s and listened to B95. I also had a very vivid imagination since I had no TV to ruin it; I didn't have to experience the cruelty or insecurity many kids did in school, since my school only had (at most) 45 kids from K thru 12th grade; and I even developed an appreciation for old time radio shows & a wide range of musical styles, thanks to my parents refusal to allow me to listen to the uninspiring pointless music of the day.

Even my mom's unwillingness to doubt her religion, when I was confused by questions that couldn't be explained, helped me in a positive way. If it had not been for my church's "True Christians don't doubt the infallible Word of God" stance, shared by my mother, I might never have felt like something was "rotten in Denmark". Without that feeling, I would never have bothered to try and find out what the Truth really was.

I am who I am today because of the values that were instilled in me and the examples that my parents set for me, when I was a small child. While I may not share their religious beliefs as an adult, I know that the reason they were so dedicated to raising my brother and I up as Christians, was because they considered it their responsibility, as our parents, to provide us with a firm grounding in the "truth" to protect us once we entered the real world.

Whether they were right or not, I don't know, and it doesn't really matter. What I have taken with me from their so-called attempts to "brainwash" me, is simply that my parents lived according to their principles and refused to conform to the expectations of the world around them, even though life would have been much easier, because the most important thing in their life was raising my brother and I the best way they could. Their love for us, and the examples they set by the way they live are what influence me today, and it was their religious beliefs that inspired them to be the parents they were and are.

Parents have an obligation to teach the values of honesty, compassion, perseverance, humility, courage, respect, confidence, and tolerance to their children, through both word and deed.
These are principles that are central to every moral and religious code in history, and it doesn't matter if the parents instill these principles because of their religion or not.
All that matters is that they try their best as parents, to show their children how to incorporate these basic values into their lives, and hope most of it sticks.

If parents fail to serve as positive examples for their children, it won't make the slightest difference whether they have been brainwashing their kids with their beliefs. The only thing their kid is going to learn is how best to "do as I say, not as I do".

Originally posted by dbrandt
My point is sins have to be dealt with, and everyone has and will commit them. If someone glosses over everything, as if they do no wrong, nothing will be learned and progress won't be made(the same is true for things that are right and just). Things that a person does that are habitual that that person needs to stop doing because it's sin will never be addressed.
God wants a change in us through Christ.

Bleh? That is huge double standard. The sins we commit have to be dealt with, but the good stuff that we do makes no difference because "we can't get into heaven through works"? Sorry, that doesn't sound like the just God I know.
So you say that because marg lied when she was 12 that she didn't break the bowl, she is eternal damned into sinfulness?

I need no intercessors to speak with God. If God created me, I am sure the same God will condescend to speak with me directly.

jezebel...

good post...

so, what will you tell your kids about God???

(everyone, notice i have a capital "G" in God. YES i AM a christian too...)

will you also tell them of santa clause and the easter bunny???

Originally posted by they see ALL
everyone, notice i have a capital "G" in God. YES i AM a christian too...

That is very interesting. Do you think that is also because of indoctrination from birth? I have nothing against capitalising "G" in God, I even do it myself. But I noticed, hebrew doesn't have capital letters, armaic doesn't, greek doesn't. Where did capitalising "G" in God, and "H" when talking using a pronoun come from? There is nothing like that in the Bible. Jesus never taught anyone to do that. Why is it then, that if I try writing "God"with a small "g" or referring to "Him" with a small "h", I get this weiiiird, bad feeling? I am pretty sure I am not the only one. Indoctrination from birth? Probably.

Originally posted by babloyi
That is very interesting. Do you think that is also because of indoctrination from birth? I have nothing against capitalising "G" in God, I even do it myself. But I noticed, hebrew doesn't have capital letters, armaic doesn't, greek doesn't. Where did capitalising "G" in God, and "H" when talking using a pronoun come from? There is nothing like that in the Bible. Jesus never taught anyone to do that. Why is it then, that if I try writing "God"with a small "g" or referring to "Him" with a small "h", I get this weiiiird, bad feeling? I am pretty sure I am not the only one. Indoctrination from birth? Probably.

well...

i was raised (or brainwashed lol) as a christian...

i think i learned the capital stuff from the Bible...

in the Bible:

the "g" is in caps...

and so is the "h"...

and "lord" is writtin LORD...