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Hitler and secret societies

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posted on May, 9 2005 @ 01:24 PM
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Sure, it is easy to say that Hitler's ideas conflicted with those of the common people of England, and it is easy to say his ideology conflicted with that of Freemasons.

But didn't his ideas have A LOT in common with the way Royalty thought in England, believing in class, blood line, and a Divine Will.

Hmmm, which family changed their name, because it was too German-sounding, not the Royal Mountbatten family... Now known as WINDSOR.

That was just before WWI, but no, they didn't have a clue it was about to start, honest.

As for proof, the Royals sent their Prince Phillip to go to school in the Nazi Youth OVER the private schools of England, such as 'Eton'!




posted on May, 9 2005 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by lostinspace
The occult seems to be the source of Hitler's brain washing influence. No other modern nation in history has gone down the path of Nazi Germany for world domination except for ancient nations

Except, of course for all modern nations. The USSR was an expansionist imperium, heck communism itself demands global revolution, domination, and one world governance. And most european powers were imperialistic nations. Italy went for empire along with germany.

Also, the idea that the nazis wanted to conquer the entire world is debateable. (personally, I think , if given a chance, they would). Apparently, 'all' they wanted was an ethnic german state, incorporating all the various germanic peoples of europe, along with some associated ethnicities (like slaves and pols and rus) to exist as second class citizens, undermen and the like.

Nazi ideology of course dictates that they clash with the communists and capitalists, which means war with teh soviets and anglos, but not necessarily global rule. Surely a hegemony would be 'natural' for them tho.

edit to add


Akilles
But didn't his ideas have A LOT in common with the way Royalty thought in England, believing in class, blood line, and a Divine Will.

Hmm. Superficially, definitely. I mean, he wanted a powerful elite to run things, and any royalty is a powerful elite that runs things.


That was just before WWI, but no, they didn't have a clue it was about to start, honest.

Before the great war, but before the germans as a people had become unpopular?

As for proof, the Royals sent their Prince Phillip to go to school in the Nazi Youth OVER the private schools of England, such as 'Eton'!

Interseting, I had never heard that before.

[edit on 9-5-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on May, 10 2005 @ 09:22 AM
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I have to add this whenever this nonsense about Freemasons getting sent to concentration camps...they weren't.

All "public" lodges were closed and "cleansed of Jewery."
2/3rds of them reoppened as The Frederick The Great Society.
ALL organisations in Germany were subjected to this "re-allignment" process including the Boy Scouts.

There was no mandate for Freemasons to be sent to concentration camps, they just had to give up their membership from closed lodges.
The only groups in Germany actually sent to concentration camps were Trade Unionists, Communist Party members, Jews and Romany Gypsys.
Life was difficult for anyone who wasn't openly pro-Nazi but they weren't systematically gassing the whole country.
Hess was clearly a Freemason and so its very likely that he would have invited Hitler to join his lodge after they were both released from prison by an unexpected pardon after their first failed attempt to sieze power.



posted on May, 10 2005 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by MrExplodingToilet
I have to add this whenever this nonsense about Freemasons getting sent to concentration camps...they weren't.


Yes they were, along with a lot of other people. Leave your revisionist history lessons back in the toilet where they belong.

en.wikipedia.org...

www....-------------------------/library/conspiracy/freemasonry/

www.masonicinfo.com...

www.bessel.org...

www.freedomdomain.com...

80,000 (est.) freemasons died in the concentration camps of the Nazis. Your trite childish nonsense is an insult to their memory.

Grow up.



posted on May, 15 2005 @ 09:31 AM
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Hitler pretty much murdered (whether that be assasinated gased or the like ) anyone who opposed him here is an actual case from memory so some of the bits may be wrong- A women reported to the German police that one of her neighbours looked Jewish and had a friend who came round every so often that also looked Jewish. She was taken into police custody under terrorism charges and gased. So I really think free masons wouldnt really stand much of a chance if they were discovered.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 01:18 AM
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Hitler did have links to what we call today the occult. I have seen a picture of Hilter in an Arman outfit if that means anything to you guys. Also, Hitler was an avid reader of Ostara magazine (Goddess of the East, from which we get "Easter"). But Hitler was a working-class kinda guy and would not have been able to join the Thule Society or Vril Society which involved more aristocratic types (especially Thule).

What everyone fails to understand about Hitler is WWI. Hitler was a messenger, a very dangerous occupation for a soldier at that time. He spent is off hours sitting in a corner of a trench, alone, with his eyes closed. Can you guess what was happening? This is meditation. When a person is under a lot of stress or pain and can still meditate, the brain-reaction is hundreds of times stronger. The war changed Hitler. This experience developed Hitler's will to the point of almost supernatural dimensions. This is why he could command Generals and aristocrats of the Junker class as if they were underlings and this is why he could move people with his words. Hitler cultivated this method of will power but his mistake was to expect it from others which served him.

By the way, Foo Fighters were German weapons and not ancient or alien or unknown as our goverment would have you believe. The US goverment has been caught identifying them in WW2 reports as German weapons and knew exactly how they worked, how fast they flew, etc.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 02:42 PM
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The connections between certain occult groups (The Vril Society, The German Order, the Thule Society, the OTO, the ideas of Blavatsky and Gurdjieff) and the Nazi Party leadership are well documented, this is not simply some 'conspiracy theory'. I say the "Nazi leadership" because Hitler was not the brains behind the Nazis, he was handpicked by them as a public leader, because of his average-working-man appeal and his amazing oratical skills. In fact with the evidence available its likely that while Hitler was versed in occultism he wasn't an actual member of the inner-circle of the occult groups behind the Nazi party.

BUT LETS GET TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER.

The Thule Society, the Vril Society, the OTO etc., did not exist in a vacum, they were part of a wider occult rennisance that floured in the late 19th centuary in Europe that was strongest in, but not limited to, England, France and Germany. In general this movement was aristocratic drawing its membership from the educated urban bourgeois. It had a political dimension, these people had visions for how the world should be, they adhered to a kind of neitzchean-social-darwinist-fascism, a belief in totalitarian government, a belief that they were the enlightened elite whose right and destiny it was to rule over the masses. In Germany this movement often have a particularly racialist and anti-Semetic character. And yes, Rosicrucians and Freemasons did play a large and influential role in this movement.

Before WWII some of the occult groups in Germany that were connected to the Nazi leadership and a relationship with the Golden Dawn, who had a certain amount of influence in British ruling circles. During WWII the Nazis used ritual magick in their war efforts, desperatley seacrhed for the Holy Grail and a passage into the earth (which they thought was hollow) and had imported several hundred Tibetan monks into Germany whose exact purpose remains a mystery. Meanwhile the British Secret Service saught the magical abiltiies of Crowley. This is a big subject that deserves a thread all its own, but the point is that this movement had a major influence on ruling circles and the military/intelligence community of England, France, Germany, Russia, Italy, which has greatly shaped the world we live in to this day.

As for Freemasons and the Nazi specifically, yes, the Nazis persecuted Freemasons, but many of you are missing the point. The Nazis targeted certain masons and certain occutlsts because they feared them, because they themselves took occultism and magick so seriously. But there is also a quote from Hitler where he prasies the system of Masonry and claims the structure of the S.S. was modeled after it. The OTO was a "quasi-masonic" order, and claimed to posses knowledge that the mainstream lodges, like the ones the people on this forum belong to, didn't have. And most of the Nazi leadership were members of the OTO .

Sorry, i can't offer any links as 'proof', because the internet is not my primary source of research. However, i will be happy to post quotes and sources later to back all this up.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by Modulok
As for Freemasons and the Nazi specifically, yes, the Nazis persecuted Freemasons, but many of you are missing the point. The Nazis targeted certain masons and certain occutlsts because they feared them, because they themselves took occultism and magick so seriously. But there is also a quote from Hitler where he prasies the system of Masonry and claims the structure of the S.S. was modeled after it. The OTO was a "quasi-masonic" order, and claimed to posses knowledge that the mainstream lodges, like the ones the people on this forum belong to, didn't have. And most of the Nazi leadership were members of the OTO .


You may be partly right, but are forgetting that Hitler considered Freemasonry to be controlled by "Jewery". He felt that Freemasonry's teaching which do have connections to Judaism, should be prosecuted like any other Jewish organization. Combine this with the fact that the Nazis disbanded ANY organization that met in private, and could therefore be possibly conspiring against the Reich, and you will understand why Freemasons were persecuted by the Nazis.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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Yes, Hitler thought that the Bible was 'Jewish filth', and therefore the Biblical component of Freemasonry would have been negative in the Nazi view. Yet Hitler and the Nazi leadership were obsessed with the Holy Grail, and again, the OTO was a 'quasi-masonic' order. Perhaps this calls for a deeper look into original OTO doctrine.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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Please...do you masons honestly believe you haven't earned any of this suspicion?

I didn't learn about Freemasonry by reading the conspirotainment trash of David Icke or Alex Jones or Jim Marrs or Bill Cooper.

I learned about Freemasonry by studying *history*, by talking with Freemasons who I have met in *real life*, by reading Masonic works such as Albert Mackey's History of Freemasonry, and by reading obejctive, scholarly histories of masonry. And yes I have read masonicinfo.com from top to bottom.

Do I think all Masons are part of some evil grand conspiracy? Of course not.

Do I think they have played a fascinating and often negative role in the history of the world that demands explanation? Yes I do.

Do I think that an international male-only secret society that dresses in funny costumes, has secret handshakes, is obsessed with geometry, Jewish legends, pagan symbolism, the Knights Templar, has often had an overlapping relationship with the Rosicrucians, Jesuits, and the Bavarian Illuminati, that represents a fraction of the population yet has played a signicant yet intentionally obscured role in an incredibly wide-range of major historical movements, events and governments demands explanation? Yes I do.



posted on May, 24 2005 @ 03:39 PM
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i meant to post this on the other thread. my bad.



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 11:49 AM
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HOw on Earth could the government know about the foo fighters unless their using them and such which im not disputting but how come the only time a foo fighter even touched a fighter was in the series taken


Cug

posted on May, 27 2005 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by Modulok

As for Freemasons and the Nazi specifically, yes, the Nazis persecuted Freemasons, but many of you are missing the point. The Nazis targeted certain masons and certain occutlsts because they feared them, because they themselves took occultism and magick so seriously. But there is also a quote from Hitler where he prasies the system of Masonry and claims the structure of the S.S. was modeled after it. The OTO was a "quasi-masonic" order, and claimed to posses knowledge that the mainstream lodges, like the ones the people on this forum belong to, didn't have. And most of the Nazi leadership were members of the OTO .

Sorry, i can't offer any links as 'proof', because the internet is not my primary source of research. However, i will be happy to post quotes and sources later to back all this up.


Post away.

How about some evidence to counter your position?
Here is the German text of the paper of arrest and commitment of Karl Germer (Germer was the head of the O.T.O. in Germany, later to be the head of the O.T.O. after Crowley's passing) to a Nazi Concentration Camp on Feb. 13, 1935 on the Grounds of having continued communication with Aleister Crowley and for seeking students for his teachings.




Geheimes Staatspolizeiamt Berlin Srd 11, den 13. Februar 1935
D.Rr II 1 B 2 -62725/1585 Prinz-Albrecht-Strasse 8
Dri Audoniwort Here enjugeben ... 18/2 Nachts
in der Selle in gefing...

An den
Schriftsteller Karl Johannes Germer,

Konzentrationslager Columbia,

Gegen Behandigungeschein.

Auf Grund des 1 der VO. des Herren Reichs-
prasidenten zum Schutz von Volk und Staat vom
28.2.1833 (RGBl.1 8.83) ordne ich hiermit gegen
Sie die Schutzhaft bis auf weiteres an.

Grunde:

Sie haben durch die standige Verbindung
mit dem in Ausland lebenden Hochgradfreimaurer
Crowley dissen staatsfeindliche Umtriebe unter-
stutzt und durch die Verbreitung seiner Lehre
Versucht, in Deutschland Anhanger fur ihn zu wer-
ben.
In Vertretung
gez.: F l e s c h.

Beglaubigt:

Kunzleiangestellte.


The main part of the text translated by Bablefish:


I hereby against you the protective custody up to further to the protection of people and state of. Reason: They by the standige connection with abroad living high degree free bricklayer Crowley of dissen anarchist activities under stutzt and by the spreading of its theory tried, in Germany


I don't know but the Nazi government sure doesn't look like a very good breeding ground for the O.T.O. putting it's leaders in concentration camps and all now does it?

Most of the Nazi/Crowley/O.T.O. connections come from one source pre WWII. A German O.T.O. member wrote a letter to Crowley stating that she was trying to get a copy of Crowleys "The Book of the Law" into Hitlers hands (There is no evidence that this ever happened). And there are a few letters by Crowley talking about the letter and about how good it would to be having a Government system biased on the law of Thelema.

The simple fact is, the Nazi Government acted so counter to the Law of Thelema there is no way they were members of the O.T.O.



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 01:00 PM
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very interesting, thanks for posting this. I will post my sources on oto/nazi connections later.


Cug

posted on May, 27 2005 @ 01:14 PM
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I found a scan of the document. Sorry about the ugly background color




Cug

posted on May, 27 2005 @ 02:04 PM
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Well while I'm waiting... some more counter evidence.

Now these examples assume the British and US Governments were actively fighting against the Nazis... Something I'm sure some people here would disagree with somehow, but I'll use it as my first point of fact.

If "most of the Nazi leadership were members of the OTO." That makes Crowley (then head of the O.T.O.) the leader of most of the Nazi bigwigs, Correct?

Then Why...

Did the British Government let Crowley live a relatively peaceful life in the English countryside while he was actively promoting Thelema / O.T.O.?

Did the American Government let Crowley (remember he was leading the Nazis) communicate with and visit in person with an American Army officer Captian (Later major) Grady McMurtry? It is well known that they routinely read and censored letters from active duty soldiers.

Did the American Government let John Whiteside Parsons one of the founders of the JPL, and inventor of the JATO rocket and a member of the O.T.O. work on secret military projects? The Government was well aware of his connections with the O.T.O. there are FBI files out there about him (he was later caught up in the McCarthy era anti communist goings on) but they still let someone connected to the Nazis work on secret projects?

While none of these examples prove a thing on their own, they do casts doubts on any Nazi/O.T.O. connection.

[[EDITED TO ADD ]]

One more thing, Mussolini did in fact kick Crowley out of Sicily, not exactly proof of anti-O.T.O. leanings of the Nazis but related somewhat.

[edit on 5/27/2005 by Cug]



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 09:03 PM
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Also, in the introduction to the 1938 version of Liber AL, Crowley makes his views on the Nazis expressly clear. He says "Ferocious Fascism, Cackling Communism cavort crazily around the globe...they are hemming us in." He then goes on to pronounce the law of Universal Liberty, free of despotic tyrants (who, by the way, were all anti-Masonic conspiracy theorists: Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, etc.)

It should also be noted that Major Fuller, Crowley's Deputy in the A.'.A.'., was a fundamental player in defeating the Nazis during the Battle of Britain.



posted on May, 27 2005 @ 09:16 PM
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Come on now, we all now Mussolini and Hitler were pawns themselves, while citing legitimate evidence of Masonic conspiracy in Revolution and social upheaval in the previous century.

Its called chicken feed. Information which is no longer vital to the 'agency' distributing intelligence can look like it is harming the cause, but due to being so out-of-date the chicken feed can actually be used to FURTHER the agenda (in the case of WWII), by letting the tyrant leaders give out historical truths while at the same time, being pawns while claiming to be free men.

As far as the OTO, and Jack Parsons, I think we all know it was the whore's fault, if you get my drift. He didn't blow himself up, and he probably was given the secret about how to make the rocket any how. The Occult ties in heavily with the early development of the microchip, and computers, over all.

But rocket science, damn, that was exclusively German. Thats why their scientists had to be brought over in Project Paperclip, to begin the American Space agency, and develop the technology that would give the world the 'Cold War' (which could not have existed without rocket technology, because atomic bombs dropped by plane could be easily defended in terms of how far they made it)

"The simple fact is, the Nazi Government acted so counter to the Law of Thelema there is no way they were members of the O.T.O."
I actually take this as proof that the author, or Thelema itself,
epitomizes reverse symbolism.
Therefore, doing everything COUNTER would be essential to following the philosophy (of the Nazis, and reverse Thelema).

Chew on that idea.


Cug

posted on May, 27 2005 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
It should also be noted that Major Fuller, Crowley's Deputy in the A.'.A.'., was a fundamental player in defeating the Nazis during the Battle of Britain.


Well to be fair, Fuller had nothing to do with Crowley after 1911. He was pissed that Crowley would not testify in George Cecil Jones' libel trial and never spoke to him again. (The reasons of this goes WAY off topic, look up some info on the looking glass trial for more info.)


Originally posted by akilles
As far as the OTO, and Jack Parsons, I think we all know it was the whore's fault, if you get my drift. He didn't blow himself up, and he probably was given the secret about how to make the rocket any how.


I would really love to do some digging on Parsons death. Truly something seems off with the whole situation.


Originally posted by akilles
"The simple fact is, the Nazi Government acted so counter to the Law of Thelema there is no way they were members of the O.T.O."
I actually take this as proof that the author, or Thelema itself, epitomizes reverse symbolism.
Therefore, doing everything COUNTER would be essential to following the philosophy (of the Nazis, and reverse Thelema).


Truthfully I think your just misinformed over everything occult. As the author of that line I can assure you that has nothing to do with reverse symbolism. About the only thing reverse in Thelema is Liber V vel Reguli and that's more standing on your head than reverse.



posted on May, 28 2005 @ 02:52 AM
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I didn't appreciate the reverse meaning of that wink.


But I am happy having my own interpretation of things




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