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Tanks

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posted on May, 19 2005 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
One question:

If the Arjun's exhaust gets clogged with say mud, wont that eventually make the tank stop?


Why did you have to think of Arjun for such a pathetic scenario ??
I have no idea where the Arjun's exhaust is locaterd

If the exhasut does get clogged the situation would be the same as in the case of any other tank.

IMO tanks 1200+bhp desied engines and the pressure in the exhaust chanber would accumulate and get so large in a small time that the mud will be blasted out.

Besided i am sure every tank has its exhaust positioned scientifically to avert such silly scenario's.



M6D

posted on May, 20 2005 @ 12:10 AM
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it looks like a leopard turret on a T-72 chassis...



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 05:36 AM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Why did you have to think of Arjun for such a pathetic scenario ??

It was the picture at the end showing the exhaust at the side, I just wondered, I have nothign against thier tank.


I have no idea where the Arjun's exhaust is locaterd

If the exhasut does get clogged the situation would be the same as in the case of any other tank.

IMO tanks 1200+bhp desied engines and the pressure in the exhaust chanber would accumulate and get so large in a small time that the mud will be blasted out.

Besided i am sure every tank has its exhaust positioned scientifically to avert such silly scenario's.

Look at the last picture posted, it shows where the exhaust is.
I just wondered.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 11:09 AM
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Kozzy, I ran into a problem when I was out with my 'el queda friends shooting tanks ......(you almost got us killed )

ALL of these tanks;

Abram M1-A2
T-80
T-90
T-98
Challenger 2
Merkava 4
Leopard 2A6
Leclerc


have front 45c or more angles (facing backworks), so it would be near impossible to hit the lower hall facing it?!
and since the front armor is to strong for a round to penatrade it the first second or maybe third time, according to what you said, that they Abram would kill the T90/T98/T80 on its first round, it seems that they dont stand a change! I forgot why that is btw...since it cannot be hitten on the lower hull if Im not mistaken!





then VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!

why is everyone dissing the T-98, it has the same armor as the
Leopard 2 A6, it has some serious countermeasures!!!
it even has an anti-air weapon defence!

"12.7 mm air defence machine gun mounted on the commander's cupola"!!!

it can fire 8 rounds a min.






The turret and hull are of all-welded steel armour construction. A layer of composite armour has been added to the front arc. The armour package is of modular design, enabling damaged sections to be replaced or upgrades installed throughout service life. Explosive reactive armour (ERA) can be fitted if required.

The Type 98 features an JD-3 integrated laser rangefinder/warning/self-defence device. Unlike contemporary Russian active tank self-defense systems like Drozd, Drozd-2, and Arena, which launch projectiles to disable or "shoot-down" incoming anti-tank missiles and projectiles, the Chinese system apparently uses a high-powered laser to directly attack the enemy weapon's optics and gunner.

The system includes what appears to be a laser warning receiver (LWR - the dome-shaped device on the turret roof behind the commander's position), that warns the crew that their tank is being illuminated by an enemy range-finding or weapon-guidance laser. The turret of the tank can then be traversed to face the direction of the enemy threat, and the laser self-defence weapon ('___'W - the box-shaped device on the turret roof behind the gunner's position), can be employed against the source of the enemy laser.

The procedure of the laser weapon would first use a low-powered beam to locate the optics of the enemy weapon. Once the enemy weapon was located, the power level of the laser would be immediately and dramatically increased. Such an attack would disable the guidance optics of the enemy weapon and/or damage the eyesight of the enemy gunner.

The available photos of the Type 98 have also confirmed that the laser weapon can be elevated to a higher angle than the tank's main gun, indicating that the engagement of attack helicopters is possible. In addition, the laser device could also be used for communications between friend tanks.



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 12:01 PM
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The Arjun aslo fires the LAHAT anti-tank missile (8km range) :





posted on May, 20 2005 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by M6D
it looks like a leopard turret on a T-72 chassis...


Yeah I guess we're all playing lego here with tank pieces!!



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by Kozzy
I've heard the Arjun has some serious problems regarding it's engine, FCS, and armor. I'm actually thinkinh of moving it back.


That was in 1997. all those have been fixed. 124 have been ordered and around 20 have alredy been delivered.

BTW : the arjun is better than the t-80 and the t-90 in every aspect

[edit on 20-5-2005 by Stealth Spy]


M6D

posted on May, 20 2005 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by 187onu



it even has an anti-air weapon defence!

"12.7 mm air defence machine gun mounted on the commander's cupola"!!!

it can fire 8 rounds a min.
id hate to tell you this, but a 12.7 mm is basically what every tank has for a anti air defense, its not exactly anything new, and its ROF isnt as high as a 50 cal either, anyway, how you gonna hit a A-10 with that thing? hell, probably wont even hurt a A-10...






[edit on 20-5-2005 by M6D]



posted on May, 20 2005 @ 04:51 PM
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OBIVOUSLY it won't shoot down an A-10 what i ment was it can defent itself from far more relative airplanes or choppers!!!
never mind an airplane, choppers is a big issue for tanks!!!!
even if it doens't shoot as fast, I CAN AND DOES DO DAMAGE, and what about all the otehr stuff that i wrote, isn't anyone gonna reply to that????


M6D

posted on May, 20 2005 @ 05:53 PM
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but seriously, a 50 cal is no biggy, i wouldnt buy a tank without one....



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 11:03 AM
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why is it so important anyway?
if you meet a apache, YOUR F*UCKED!!!


M6D

posted on May, 21 2005 @ 12:43 PM
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YOUR the one who made the big deal out of it! yuo specifically went out your way to mention it!



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 03:54 PM
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what i ment was that the Abrams for example doens't have it, but reply to the other stuff as well, the anti-air is like last important!!! on my list of reply at least!!!



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 07:51 PM
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12.7mm is 0.50inches so that's .50 cal.

When referring to 12.7mm HMG's they often refer to guns that use Soviet M30/38 rounds of 12.7x108mm.

This round has slightly better power and ballistics compared to the Browning 12.7x99mm rounds.

All tanks use MG's as air defense, they provide last resort protection, but they are more often used on ground targets from infantry up to APCs.

the Russian AT-11 Sniper round is designed to take out slow flying aircraft as well as armor however.

the NSVt is probably more suitable since it's much more flexible than a M2HB IMO since it's mounted on a more mobile platform.

Just some stats on attack helicopters and their weapons:

AH-64A/D

AGM-114 Hellfire, it's armor penetration is so high that no tank will surface a direct hit.
70mm Hydra rockets, unguided rockets which can be used on lightly armored targets and infantry but will probably suffice to damage MBTs as well
M230 30mm moveable cannon, fires at 625RPM, can be succesfully used against a wide variaty of targets, sometimes even used on infantry.
AIM-9L Sidewinder missiles, Air to Air missiles can be carried as well.

In short, no tank will survive an Apache and/or Longbow Apache.

Mi-24D to P Hind D to F

AT-2 Swatter AT-6C Spiral
57mm rockets or 80mm rockets
12.7mm Multibarrel Gun, 1 23mm Cannon or 2 30mm fixed cannons

The Hind is a very deadly helicopter, it's highly manaunverable, it is capable of carrying troops although it never often does, it often is seen carrying multiple rocket pods, ATGM launchers and a cannon or heavy machinegun mounted near the nose.

The Armor Penetration of the aging AT-2 is very limited, the AT-6 is below par as well, however, the sheer number of ordanances carried by the Hind make it a very deadly platform.

Mi-28A/N Havoc
AT-9/AT-16(?) Ataka/Ataka-M

Penetrate 950-1000mm of armor, compare this to about 1600mm of penetration on the Hellfire, still better than the TOW-2B.

80mm or 122mm rocket pods

Can be used on most targets.

30mm moveable gun

Similar to the Apache.

The Mi-28 is the Russian counterpart to the Apache.

The KA-50 and KA-52 are even more impressive but their future remains unclear.


M6D

posted on May, 21 2005 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by 187onu
what i ment was that the Abrams for example doens't have it, but reply to the other stuff as well, the anti-air is like last important!!! on my list of reply at least!!!



the abrams does have a 50 cal..ive even seen it with a rotary 50 or it miht of been a 7.62 on top...one of the two



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy

Originally posted by Kozzy
I've heard the Arjun has some serious problems regarding it's engine, FCS, and armor. I'm actually thinkinh of moving it back.


That was in 1997. all those have been fixed. 124 have been ordered and around 20 have alredy been delivered.

BTW : the arjun is better than the t-80 and the t-90 in every aspect

[edit on 20-5-2005 by Stealth Spy]


No its not...ask Kozzy...It is generally known that the T-90 and T-80UM is better than the Arjun.

And in 1997 the problems surfaced. I still don't see any information regarding these problems. I can probably see that they fixed it, but how do you know for sure?



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 11:58 PM
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the arjun is even so much better than the t-90 that the arjun was cancelled while hundreds of T-90s were ordered. end of story.



posted on May, 21 2005 @ 11:59 PM
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^^ Yeah but kozzy seems to rate the T-98 below these two as well...
infact he never explained why he rated the T-80 abv the T-98 and the Arjun..?

bisonn why is your points tally negative?? You're the only person I've seen with a -ve tally after proteinx.. been a naughty boy on ATS aye?


[edit on 22-5-2005 by Daedalus3]



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by bisonn
the arjun is even so much better than the t-90 that the arjun was cancelled while hundreds of T-90s were ordered. end of story.


The arjun has not been cancelled. What are you talking about ??

the indian army has placed an order for 124 arjuns and around 20 have been delivered.

The arjun is superior to the T-90 but more expensive as well, and thats the reason india opted for licenced production of the T-90.

The arjun was meant to counter the Abrhamses that pakistan were supposed to buy, but since the proposition never materialised, india opted for the cheaper T-90 in larger numbers, and just 125 arjuns.



posted on May, 22 2005 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by W4rl0rD

It is generally known that the T-90 and T-80UM is better than the Arjun.


What makes you say so
Look at the performance charts, armour, optics, mobility, ergonomics, Firecontrol, etc and everything else .

If its out of prejudice and propaganda that you make the claim, i wont bother to answer them.


And in 1997 the problems surfaced. I still don't see any information regarding these problems. I can probably see that they fixed it, but how do you know for sure?


check this out :


To the point about Arjun’s reliability, the intial Arjun user trials did indeed bring out many problems. But later reports by the same independent agencies touted by Arjun’s critics note that virtually every major problem found during past testing with respect to the Arjun’s gunnery, transmission, engine, fire control system, etc., was fixed.




The Arjun also has been the frequent target of anonymous criticism by some Army armored corpsmen who do not hide their fundamental dislike of the tank. Many believe the Russian T-72 tank is a successful design, and the Arjun comes as a culture shock as it represents a different concept in armor.

It also is worth noting that while most Arjun critics are lobbyists for foreign defense firms, including the powerful Russian consortiums. Their motives, therefore, are suspect.

The import content of the Arjun is a non-issue. Because this was their first tank-building attempt Arjun’s designers used line replaceable units, which employ module-based subsystems, so they could validate the design and then progressively introduce indigenous subsystems.

Today, the Arjun’s gun-control system, fire control system, transmission, navigation system, tactical radios, battlefield management system and electronics are all Indian designed.

According to Gen. N.C. Vij, the outgoing Army chief, Arjun’s foreign contentshrank to 20 percent today from 70 percent in the 1990s.


Despite every attempt to kill it, Arjun’s success in the latest trials ensures the tank will enter service.




source : www.defensenews.com...



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