The attic thing is normal. My roof bangs and creaks with my thoughts just as i'm falling asleep. You are a very powerful person and have nothing to worry about. Vast amounts of phenomena happen just as people are falling to sleep, and this is because their spiritual vehicles or astral bodies have become freed from the human body, and only await the spirit of the human itself before venturing off into the unknown for the night.

Okay, I've had my share of run ins with ghosts...sort of. I used to live near two large cemetaries, and apparently there's a ghost in rez. they were more like shapes in the dark. Long story (that I might post later). In my humble opinion, there are three types of ghosts: those who warn, those who avenge and those who are merely 'playbacks' of events, a la System Shock 2.

I think it's safe to rule out number two, so you've either got playbacks or poltergeists. Have you tried negotiation? Maybe a comprimise could be worked out.

First of all I want to say that everyone who is posting on this here in the past day have just had phenomenal theories. There has been something valuable to me in each and every one of you guy/gal's posts. I'm kind of glad this thread came back up so that I could get the new input!

With the exception of the kitchen trashcan and the heater, everything that has happened seems to be a memory imprint...IMHO. So I think it is replays. with maybe a little bit of poltergeisticness (I think I just made that word up:@@ thrown in. My personal beliefs are that it isn't spiritually healthy to negotiate with anything...I'll use my Mediator for that .

I believe that children can see their guardian angels...period. I have now known 3 children under the age of 5 to 6 who have talked about these beings, drawn pictures of them, etc. So for me, that is a given. The idea that my little grandson may have at first seen a guardian angel/spirit, but then something ominous is an interesting thought. Did the guardian angel arrive knowing that protection was needed at that time, and then something dark enter the room? Could my grandson have seen a struggle? I don't know. All I know is that **I**, my daughter and my son saw him see something.

The cellar does NOT have a cobblestone floor and it's not dirt either, but I need to check what it does have now that you ask. If I recall correctly it is cement.

We may find something interesting soon. There is a large cistern directly next to the cellar. Both the cellar and the cistern have a wrap around porch built over them. The cistern is starting to float (i.e. the ground is pushing it up) and it is actually starting to raise the porch floor, so we have to bust it out and fill it in. That might turn out to be interesting.

Concerning my son's bad feelings, I think you have asked a really good question. I will ask him if he had the feelings prior to these things happening. I just found out about him having a feeling of something "not good" being behind him at times when we were discussing this with his girlfriend this past weekend. I asked him if there was a particular part of the house that this occurred in, or whether he just felt that in general. He stated it was always when he was coming up the stairs.

We have found on interesting little feature??? of the house in the past couple of months, that eventually (as work gets done on the house) will be investigated further. When you are in the enclosed porch if you turn and look at the wall that would have been the outside wall of the original house, but is now inside the porch, there is a completely finished out angled enclosure, with siding and all, that comes out of the wall and extends up to the ceiling of the first floor of the porch. Now up until Springer noticed this, it had been assumed that that was the underside of the stairs and they just enclosed them and finished it off.

Nope. Not unless there was a set of stairs that came out of the side of the house to nowhere. The stairs reach the top floor approximately 6 feet back from that wall, inside the house, just like you would figure. In fact, there is a storage clost under them, and you can go in it and see where the angled bottomside of the stairs meet the top floor. So we haven't got a clue why there would be this angled box sticking out of the side of the house (and there was a LOT of finish work to finish this thing out).

The cellar does NOT have a cobblestone floor and it's not dirt either, but I need to check what it does have now that you ask. If I recall correctly it is cement.

With all the paranormal things happening in this house..... a cellar (with a cement floor) really bothers me. Did you get anymore information on the grocer guy? How new is this cement floor? Meat hooks..cement flooring... this isn't looking good.

We may find something interesting soon. There is a large cistern directly next to the cellar. Both the cellar and the cistern have a wrap around porch built over them. The cistern is starting to float (i.e. the ground is pushing it up) and it is actually starting to raise the porch floor, so we have to bust it out and fill it in. That might turn out to be interesting.

I'm assuming the cistern is not full of water than, if it's starting to float. What's causing the ground to push it up? Is it really cold there? Could the ground be freezing? Could the water have leaked out, of the cistern than froze causing.... it to rise?

Hey val,

Glad to see some updates here. I am also glad to see this topic rehashed. Let me know if you need anything. I am always willing to help out. (as you already know)

The grocer is still bugging me. I also would like to know if you found anything further on him (or the wife). As memory serves, his daughter no longer lives in town. Also, did you tell me you found the wife??? (in her permanent address anyways)

Glad to see al is fairly well right now.

Take Care

Whitewolf

**Mountainstar**

We have know I idea whether there is water in the cistern or not. Won't know until we bust it open. No, it rarely comes a DEEP freeze here and usually not for quite some time yet. It's too cold for me...but that means it's under 70 . It's just ground pressure. The red clay of Oklahoma tends to swell up.

**IAP**

Glad to see you! Well, yeah, I found the wife in her permanent address...right next to him at the cemetery. We talked about this but you have forgotten. He died about 11 months after her. Remember, we discussed that your theory that he could have done something to her still holds up.

They had one daughter and as far as I know that was the only child (she was the only heir). But the daughter you are talking about is the adopted daughter of the third family (the ones who lived here last). That's a pretty dysfunctional situation right there. To a person, every one I have talked to about concerning these people say they "should have never adopted children". And I can tell you also that the daughter NEVER returned once after leaving for college (as far as any one in the little bitty town knows). There are two stories about the boy. One is that he left and then committed suicide, the other is that he never left, and committed suicide. I haven't been able to confirm which yet. I think it is the former. I think he was living in another state when he died. But those two factors concerning the kids kind of speak volumes in my mind. They were also drinkers (closet drinkers). So you have to keep that in mind. There is still a LOT of their stuff in this house.

He was a speech teacher and she was a librarian and there are scads of books in the library and in the attic.

I have had at least one "old timer" confirm that the grocer (the second family) was not only a FLAMING alcoholic, but abusive.

It may be a case of multiply negative imprints from both of these dysfunctional families. It's a thought anyway!

i would first like to say hello to val. your post has kept me on the edge of my seat since the moment i started reading it. it is really interesting to have you post info as it happens, its not something you get to read or hear quite often. actually when i first started reading this it sounded very much like a movie.
it seems that there are a lot of dead ends with trying to find out the past of the families of who lived there. it sounds like there is a lot of missing things. you should be keeping some type of time line or folder with these different families and situations. i know its kind of late but that tape recorder was a good idea, only one thing bothered me. you should have set it up to hear the bag in the kitchen. although it could be easily faked, for yourself it might be interesting because you would know you didnt fake it.
i know talk had been concerning the meat hooks but i dont feel that they mean anything. old houses have a lot of old things in them and they might just be that, old things.
i have had some strange happenings in my house but they quickly stopped. dont know why they started or stoped but has made me very interested in the subject. sorry i have nothing else to add.
well keep safe, and keep updating i think you have everyone waiting to see how this turns out.

I have a question to all who are interested in this thread. There have been several times since I started telling you about what was going on, that things happened that I would delay telling you about. The reason being, it seems that when I talk to people about this...something else happens. If I don't talk, it goes away for quite a while.

I have read a thread on ATS about synchronicity. Do you think there is synchronicity to these spiritual happenings? I am starting to wonder. OR, is it a matter of constant and incessant coicidences that I really would like to accept! (I like to ignorantly deny a lot of times, instead of denying ignorance.)

Here is why I ask. Shortly after posting my post on this thread just after 5:00 CST, my daughter came in here and we were talking and the phone rang. And it was a man, asking for Mrs. Brown. (YEP! The Mrs. Brown phone call again. The Browns are the ORIGINAL builders of this house. 1905 people, they aren't here now...and they darned sure didn't have this phone number.)

So I haven't gotten a "Mrs. Brown" phone call since the last time I posted on this thread that I got one. (I didn't go back and check but it had to have been June or July when the last one happened.)

I find it odd that when this all gets brought up again, strange things start happening again. And I tend to delay saying something, because of fear that some one will think I'm bull#ting. I am NOT bull#ting. My daughter was in here! I answered on the speaker phone! It was a "Mrs. Brown" phone call!

I have heard that if you have a "spirit" in your house whose existence disturbs your well being, open the front door (with everyone who lives there in attendance) and speak aloud the directions to the nearest hospital or cemetary. It's kind of simple really. If there are beings who are trapped in-between this realm, and whereever..then these places (hospitals and cemetaries) are sort of like gateways. You generally come into (and sometimes depart) the world in a hospital, and most, but not all go out in a cemetary.

Energy cannot be destroyed.....just converted. I believe the soul is just another form of energy that we have yet to measure.

Just my two cents Val.

See, I have some similar thoughts on "disconnected" spirits. I believe that they tend to occur when one of a couple or three things happen:

1. Premature death (or traumatic death) - possibly a death that should have been an NDE, but the body is removed before the spirit returns. This would go with your theory of pointing them in the right direction...right?

2. Violent death - trauma to the spirit connected to the feeling of violation, or maybe a need to have a living being find out what happened to them.

3. Obsession - a connection with a place that the spirit cannot relinquish. a happy connection. they don't want to leave.

And I also believe that they live in their time, not our time. So if changes are made (say a wall is added, or the structure is demolished and a new structure built in a different location), the inanimate non-spiritual objects (i.e. the wall, the house, etc.) cannot be seen by the spirit. They live in the time of their existence. BUT, they can see spiritual beings, just as we can - when we can. So I think they tend to not violate physical barriers of their time (if a wall was there in their time they cannot pass through it but if it wasn't they can).

That's my thoughts. They're worth 2 cents or less.

I have read a thread on ATS about synchronicity. Do you think there is synchronicity to these spiritual happenings? I am starting to wonder. OR, is it a matter of constant and incessant coicidences that I really would like to accept! (I like to ignorantly deny a lot of times, instead of denying ignorance.)

Sorry I wish I could make you feel better and say it's just constant and incessant coincidences. But I don't believe it is.

They (the spirits) seem to know when you are talking about them

Another thought....Could there be someone in your small town who knows your investigating paranormal activity of your house? Someone who could have gotten access to your phone number? Someone who you thought you could trust. And this person is calling you and asking for Mrs Brown? We have to rule-out every possible scenario

1. have you tried to *69 the Mrs. Brown calls and find out where they're coming from?

2. Possibility: Multiple spirits of different types. Perhaps several playbacks and a poltergeist?

3. Syncroniteity: Possibility that hte spirit is intelligent, and more frighteningly, watching you. If it is intelligent, the good news is that comprimise is still an option (albehit one that you don't like).

DE

I think I stated somewhere way back in this thread...every one of these calls sounds like they are from like a bill collector or such. So far there have been two women call and then yesterday's was a man. each time they acted I got the feeling it was a bill collector. So who it is from is not as weird as WHEN it happens (about every time we start discussing this again! LOL) and the bizarre coincidences that lead to

1. bill collectors trying to get a woman with the last name of "Brown"
2. the Browns being the original owners of the house and the last one of them to die was 1949
3. no other Browns living in this house since then

It's just the synchronicity that bothers me the most.

Few thoughts for you Val. And thanks for the little refresher there. Had to clean my U2U box out and lost a lot of our conversation. I remember well now.

1. Synchronicity- Maybe maybe not. Here is what I believe to be true in the world of hauntings. If this is an active haunting (I will get into your specific situation momentarily) then the active spirits know when you are talking about them. This can make them act more, as they know that, at that exact time, your mind is thinking (at least in some capacity) about them. The other point to keep in mind (with my research anyway) is that while they may be active constantly, you may only notice it when you talk about it as when you talk about it, you are more focused on it.

I explain this like this. In my home, I KNOW I have at lease 7 different types of entities. (really ) Now, I have a small number (approximately 5 maybe a few more) that are ACTIVE. I have some residual, poltergeist and others, but, the actives are my focus here. Now, I know they are active all of the time. But, unless they REALLY try to get my attention, I usually just shrug it off, or better yet, don't even catch on to it. UNLESS I TALK ABOUT THEM. As I talk about them, my mind focuses more and them for a short time, and I notice EVERYTHING. So, in a way, even though the haunting is real, much of what we notice is based on our own psychological involvement at that moment. Are we insane? No, we are just paying less attention when we are not actively involved with them.

2. Multiple Haunting Aspects (you mentioned something like this earlier) - I believe in your situation (much like mine) you have multiple levels of a haunt. On one level (and for the most part in your home) it is residual. Things playing back over and over.

You have at least one ACTIVE haunting aspect, which is the phone calls for Brown. I say this because, as stated above, they happen when your mind is more aware. They are calling a number asking for a dead person that could never possily have had a number even reslembling you number.

I believe you also have what is refered to as a patroling spirit. These are, in essence, both drawn and attracted by the more powerful ones of which in turn are then used by the stronger ones in creating a more psychical density, resulting in more evident occurrences. Think of the spirit world in a food chain situation. The patroling spirit would be a a food source for the active spirit.

You may have even more, but, without inviting a local parapsychologist or Paranormal Investigator to you home, it would be impossible to determine.

Please let me know if there is anything I can help with. Also, if you happen to get 35mm or digital photos of anything you consider strange, you can email them to me at

timothymartin_ny@yahoo.com

and I will gladly look them over for you.

And val, I dunno if you have visited my site yet with a few of my photos, but you can click my web link at the bottom of my post and it will take you there.

For now, take care.

Originally posted by elderban
I may be a little late in replying to this, but from what I'm reading in all your posts is that you may have created or stumbled upon a time rift or opened up a parallel universe.

Something just occurred to me while reading your note. I've been reviewing this entire thread and it didn't hit me until just now. It sort of supports the time rift idea (not that I've experienced anything like that). It seems like time rifts are a common theme in the history of this house...for instance you're referencing a boy paying estate tax but then the records show he died before the parents...and you're showing that the house was sold in 1962 by someone who didn't get the deed until 1967. And someone was supposedly living in the house to a certain date who then turns up to have been living somewhere else. Do you see what I mean about a pattern of time rifts?

Also, I'd just like to say this is a great and entertaining thread. As I was reading it my one eyed wonder dog starting barking visioucly at something behind me in the empty dining room. I almost pooed on myself. I had to go get my little black cat for comfort. There better not be a time rift here...if there is...I want to be transported back three years before the economy went to crap and I was making $92,000 a year.

I almost pooed on myself.

I almost did this one myself this morning when I opened John Nada's spider story link...

LOL!

There are a lot of discontinuities connected with my house, that's for sure.

Originally posted by Valhall
One thing I have not mentioned in this thread is that there are meat-hooks in the cellar. They protrude from the cellar ceiling. When we first bought the house, I assumed they were there because the house was built in 1905 and that would have been a normal thing to find for curing meats. Unfortunately, we have now found that the cellar was not built until much later. So the need for the hooks becomes rather hard to explain!

OKAY....NOTE TO SELF: don't EVERY move into a house that has MEAT HOOKS in the cellar....or anywhere else for that matter. YIKES!!!!!!!!!

Have you questioned the caller?
Ask why they were calling or what year they are calling from? I know it sounds nuts, but no more than a time rift.
Seen the movie Frequency?

LOL! Hey, what's the harm? In fact, there may be quite a benefit. Can you imagine this being some bill collector and me going. "I'm not answering any questions until you tell me what year you're calling from."

LOL!

This thread is very interesting!
Thanks for keeping us posted!