Last Words to Sheriffs, "Don't Kill Me, Man, Don't Kill Me"

Why question the cops' actions?

Tasers are "non lethal." See, they obviously don't kill people. Even if you shock someone five times in one minute, it won't kill them. Even if you shock a pregnant woman in the belly, it won't hurt her or the fetus. You could shock someone 20 times in 20 seconds, it doesn't matter.

So don't question the actions of cops, ok? If they killed, er, tased this guy while he was restrained, they had a reason to. After all, restraints just ain't what they used to be; look at the recent cases where suspects are tased while handcuffed. Obviously, they should make better handcuffs, and if you're just handcuffed, you should feel lucky that you aren't tased.

So there's no argument here. So what if the guy was an epileptic. He should have controlled himself. That's no excuse. He needed to be shocked 5 times in a minute; when you have a sick suspect, you gotta tase them more. Bottom line is, tasers don't kill people.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Why question the cops' actions?

Tasers are "non lethal." See, they obviously don't kill people. Even if you shock someone five times in one minute, it won't kill them. Even if you shock a pregnant woman in the belly, it won't hurt her or the fetus. You could shock someone 20 times in 20 seconds, it doesn't matter.

So don't question the actions of cops, ok? If they killed, er, tased this guy while he was restrained, they had a reason to. After all, restraints just ain't what they used to be; look at the recent cases where suspects are tased while handcuffed. Obviously, they should make better handcuffs, and if you're just handcuffed, you should feel lucky that you aren't tased.

So there's no argument here. So what if the guy was an epileptic. He should have controlled himself. That's no excuse. He needed to be shocked 5 times in a minute; when you have a sick suspect, you gotta tase them more. Bottom line is, tasers don't kill people.

Ok let us tazer you 5 times in a minute and see if your so content with it being done.
It doesnt matter if they kill or not, they are inflicting pain, unless your all for torture?

Originally posted by DeusEx
Jam, I understand what epilepsy is.

Even if you are not in control of yourself, and commit a criminal act, the police must still stop, restrain, and arrest you.

I do not see a seizure in there that has a symptom of resisting arrest, assaulting officers, or attempting to escape restraint.

See, I'm going to have to urge you once again to review what epilepsy is. Epilepsy is not synonymous with having seizures. I dated a girl who had epilepsy, and her "episodes" did not always involve seizures. Many a time she just couldn't control her body and "spazzed" a lot (for lack of a better word). As well, she did not always seem "there" mentally when this would happen.

If you read the story, you will see that this man was described as acting irrational and violent. He did not have full control over his movements or his mind.

But, let's assume he was having a seizure, maybe a mild one. When the ambulance arrive on the scene to someone having a seizure, do they shock them with a taser?

Your turn.

I think it was sarcasm wasp.

Anyway, the point of this discussion should be refined to the following:

Are the guidelines in place to promote responsible Taser use by officers? Is there more that can be done to refine the guidelines, and perhaps standardize them to prevent unnecessary casualties? Do officers understand these weapons aren't toys, that they can and do kill? Would more training, or any other measure, reduce the instances of officers abusing their fellow civilians? What can be done to coach citizens to better respect the officers that are tasked with protecting them?

And finally, can someone please conduct some freakin' tests to determine Taser lethality? A pig and five dogs just doesn't cut it, when you consider how many depts. are using these things.

Gee, this thread has gotten long!

Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but I have found an article stating that "The International Association of Chiefs" (don't know who they are yet!) has made some reccomendations regarding taser use protocol.

You can read about that here: IACP Recommends Departments Develop Specific Taser Safety Guidelines

And finally, I would like for you to know that I have indeed conducted my own personal taser experiments. They do hurt, but it doesn't kill you.

Well, apparently it does kill people with mental or physical handicaps. But an officer isn't going to know who these people are. So, perhaps there need to be more strict guidelines in use for a taser. Hundreds have been killed, and in my opinion, that is too many for a non-lethal weapon.

The man deserved what he got. This should send a message out to the criminals that the police dont play around anymore.

LESS THAN LETHAL

Tazers, like The Spray and Asps, are not non-lethal weapons. They are less than lethal weaposn that are designed to incapacitate rather than kill, but much like a rubber bullet to the brainpan, they can kill.

Jam, I understand what a seizure is. But, an ambulance wasn't called because the person was acting violently. After a seizure, I was of the impression that a person regained their senses , and would not have been a threat to the paramedics.

I really don't see this as different from someone else in leave of their senses. Schizophrenics, drug abusers, and people with other mental problems are dealt with on a daily basis by the police.

DW, review the legal definition of manslaughter. I panic because I'm slipping on some ice, grab you, and you fall down and brain yourself. Well, that's 10 years for me for manslaughter.

Wyrd, I refer you to the Dread Wheel. If you look at a



use of force wheel, then you'll see that at active resistant, much less assaultive, there is allowances for the use of intermediate weapons, such as a taser. A taser is, in fact, considered to be at the soft end of the itnermediate weapon scale, compared to batons.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx
Jam, I understand what a seizure is. But, an ambulance wasn't called because the person was acting violently. After a seizure, I was of the impression that a person regained their senses , and would not have been a threat to the paramedics.

Deus, there was no indication this guy was having a seizure. I'm sorry, but my patience is running low on this. Are you just not reading what I write, and picking out what makes your future career look more glamorous to you? Epilepsy is not synonymous with seizures.

Jam, I apologize. There was, however, indications that this man was impaired in one way or another.

DE

You guys just do not get it do you??

This whole thing about us NEEDING police... we don't need police.

THE ONLY REASON WE HAVE POLICE is because there is inequity in our countries. The rich have FAR too much and the poor have little to nothing.

So they INVENT the police basically... they CONVINCE you that people are generally evil and without the police you'd all be killing and harming each other constantly. This is just not true. Its been prooven time and time again that humans without a government and without police will get along just fine and build between THEMSELVES a fair and safe community (look at spain post war). The police were put there in the first place to protect the haves from the have nots.. not to keep us SAFE from 'each other'.

What you don't understand is that deep down inside.. humans REALLY do NOT want to hurt each other.. we ALL actually want to co-operate and make a fair and safe society for us all.. and WE CAN DO IT.. if we don't work under a capitalisim that is completely destructive and short sighted. IF someone in our little happy and equal society DID get out of line, the society ITSELF will handle the problem.. they have HAVE LAWS which dictate how that is to be handled.

Look at ... the indian communities 1000 years ago.. did they have COPS?

No they didn't. In fact.. I'm pretty sure a police station IS NOT a prerequestet to having a functional society. BUT WE GIVE THESE MEN, who were NOT good enough to make professional sporting teams and get paid for being brutal guns and power TO TORTURE A MAN IN A CELL...


.. and then we sit around and discuss and try to fracking rationalise it.


Unbelieveable. I really can't believe you guys.

THEY TORTURED THIS GUY TO FRELLING DEATH! THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!


THERE IS NOTHING THAT SAYS IN AMERICAN LAW THAT WHEN A PRISONER IS UNRULLY YOU CAN FRACKING TIE HIM TO A CHAIR AND STUN HIM OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL HE FALLS UNCONCIOUS! This is crazy... and actually I think this is more propaganda.. this is TO DESENSITISE YOU TO THIS ONGOING QUEST TO START ALLOWING "People in authority" TO TORTURE AND KILL "undesirables" or whoever else gets in their way.


And you try to find ways to validate it..


"Well you know cops have it rough."

They get killed in the line of duty becasue we have created an unfair and desperate portion of our population.

Have you seen inner city schools lately? You think ANYONE is going to come out of that 'all right' and its going to be a SAFE working enviroment for ANYONE?!

The drug war? Which you KNOW is unfair and just stupid.. and its killing 1000s of people every year needlessly.. THAT is what is getting cops killed.. when they pull over someone whos afraid that their drug use is about to get them A MANDITORY LIFE SENTENCE... bull#.. if you were looking at strike three.. and you get pulled over and your buddy has a few ounces of blow on him and YOU"VE BEEN CLEAN, but this is going to get you put away FOR LIFE becasue of draconian laws.. WHAT DO YOU DO!!?? You kill the S.O.B. and hope for the best!

This is why this is happening.

Its NOT the GUY WHO WAS TIED TO THE CHAIRS FAULT!


... unbelievable...

You don't get it, Vis Mega.

NO ONE has the right to EVER question the actions of police. Period. That guy should be thankful he was only tased. It's his own fault that he died; you should be able to take five shocks in one minute like a man. If you look at a cop wrong, they have a right to tase you.

The only way to prevent more of these incidents is to give cops more tasers. If they shock enough people, the other epileptics who can't control their body movements will learn. And if you're strapped in a chair, the police have a right to tase the $hit out of you because you're still a threat to their safety. Guns, badges, nightsticks, pepper spray, and contact with other officers doesn't keep you safe from a person having a seizure.