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WAR: Soldier Gets Death Penalty

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posted on May, 1 2005 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
One death does not bring back the dead men, all it brings is more death.
He betrayed his unit, country and the people who trusted him, but it still doesnt make the task any "better" or "good" .......I pity the men and women who will have to conduct his execution...


His death will not bring them back, I agree. His death will make sure he is never in a position to allow him to compromise the trust another human being, much less a fellow soldier, could theoretically place in him. Let him suffer the same fate he condemned others to by betraying their trust and voluntarily taking their lives.

I don't pity the executioners. I'd do it for them in this case, if given the chance. That's not just because I had a friendship years ago with one of the victims either, in case you're wondering. I'd applaud this action regardless.




posted on May, 1 2005 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by TheDemonHunter
His death will not bring them back, I agree. His death will make sure he is never in a position to allow him to compromise the trust another human being, much less a fellow soldier, could theoretically place in him. Let him suffer the same fate he condemned others to by betraying their trust and voluntarily taking their lives.

You could do that by simply letting him go back.


I don't pity the executioners. I'd do it for them in this case, if given the chance. That's not just because I had a friendship years ago with one of the victims either, in case you're wondering. I'd applaud this action regardless.

I do, it means they must kill a fellow US soldier, regardless of what he did he still is one.



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 05:38 PM
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Lets not pretend any of the militarty personel that will be executing this guy are going to have any problems doing so.



posted on May, 1 2005 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Lets not pretend any of the militarty personel that will be executing this guy are going to have any problems doing so.

Some will......but most wont.



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 03:15 AM
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Hassan Akbar lost his right to be viewed equally as a soldier the moment he attacked, wounded, and killed his brothers-in-arms. He's a criminal. The only difference is that he committed his actions in a situation that was far more dangerous, both because of the surroundings and the weapons he had access to. I consider this an even more heinous act than a civilian murder, as we have less reasonable expectations as civilians of our fellows' behavior.

These men need to be able to expect a higher standard of trust and honor from the man next to them, as they are placing their lives at risk in combat to an enemy force. These men were preparing to enter a war zone, readying themselves at an encampment in a foreign nation, knowing that they needed to trust the man next to them to watch their backs as much as they needed to watch his.

Akbar took an oath when he joined the army. He swore to bear true faith allegiance to the United States of America, to obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over him, in accordance with regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

He went back on that oath and is a traitor not only to his unit, but to his country.



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 07:02 AM
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Thats yours, and probably most peoples opinion of this man and I wil tend to agree, it still wont change the fact its ending another life



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 07:25 AM
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I must say that I have a different point of view regarding justice. Why do we have to follow this policy of eye for the eye, tooth for the tooth? Why kill him so that he can rest in peace or put him in prison? I dont think that changes anything. I would recommend something that follows him until the rest of his miserable life. For example they could tatoo something on his forehead (like traitor or murder) then release him to the puplic
(believe me he will experience hell on earth). I think that is a much bigger punishment than just death



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by amraam
I must say that I have a different point of view regarding justice. Why do we have to follow this policy of eye for the eye, tooth for the tooth? Why kill him so that he can rest in peace or put him in prison? I dont think that changes anything. I would recommend something that follows him until the rest of his miserable life. For example they could tatoo something on his forehead (like traitor or murder) then release him to the puplic
(believe me he will experience hell on earth). I think that is a much bigger punishment than just death

I agree, even just letting him go will be enough.
Imagine the mob after him, even if they didnt catch him, his life would be officialy over.
"An eye for an eye will make the world blind." ....Ghandi



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 07:54 AM
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This is one of those cases that I really wish there was a way to Kill him resusitate him wait a week and KILL HIM AGAIN



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by amraam
I must say that I have a different point of view regarding justice. Why do we have to follow this policy of eye for the eye, tooth for the tooth? Why kill him so that he can rest in peace or put him in prison? I dont think that changes anything. I would recommend something that follows him until the rest of his miserable life. For example they could tatoo something on his forehead (like traitor or murder) then release him to the puplic
(believe me he will experience hell on earth). I think that is a much bigger punishment than just death

I agree, even just letting him go will be enough.
Imagine the mob after him, even if they didnt catch him, his life would be officialy over.
"An eye for an eye will make the world blind." ....Ghandi


So let me get this straight. You'd prefer the anarchy of "mob justice" ending his life (and make no mistake, that's the way it would happen) to having a court-sanctioned, fairly regulated execution under controlled circumstances. How does this not follow "an eye for an eye," which you claim to be so against?


Congratulations. You've just reversed your own opposition to this in one simple paragraph.



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 01:59 PM
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You are absolutely right. What I was trying to explain was that we shouldnt be in charge of convicting criminals in general by sending them to prison or execute them. I would rather make this criminal remember his actions for the rest of his life.
Let's say there is somebody who has just committed some severe crime (murder,rape etc..), this person as a consequence is then made very famous by the local media or has a tatoo on his forehead. I dont think that there will be some angry mob chasing him through the whole country but rather some sort of discrimination which I think will have a tremendous impact on his life.
Just make him remember his actions, after some time he will judge himself.



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 03:07 PM
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too bad the wounded souldiers couldn't have saved us all some time and money and just killed him execution style on the battlefield...
it was war... he choose wrong... he needed to die...ASAP...



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by TheDemonHunter
So let me get this straight. You'd prefer the anarchy of "mob justice" ending his life (and make no mistake, that's the way it would happen) to having a court-sanctioned, fairly regulated execution under controlled circumstances. How does this not follow "an eye for an eye," which you claim to be so against?


I believe you have "mis understood" what I meant.
By doing this he has a better chance and does not resort to execution, he may be murdered but atleast he has a chance.


Congratulations. You've just reversed your own opposition to this in one simple paragraph.

Hardly.



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

I believe you have "mis understood" what I meant.
By doing this he has a better chance and does not resort to execution, he may be murdered but atleast he has a chance.


But, exactly why does this 'person' deserve a chance? He wasn't willing to give a chance to any of those he murdered or inhured? Please explain why he deserves a chance and why you seem to feel that there is no crime worth dying for.



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by amraam
You are absolutely right. What I was trying to explain was that we shouldnt be in charge of convicting criminals in general by sending them to prison or execute them. I would rather make this criminal remember his actions for the rest of his life.
Let's say there is somebody who has just committed some severe crime (murder,rape etc..), this person as a consequence is then made very famous by the local media or has a tatoo on his forehead. I dont think that there will be some angry mob chasing him through the whole country but rather some sort of discrimination which I think will have a tremendous impact on his life.
Just make him remember his actions, after some time he will judge himself.


Trust me when I say that there are those who would end his existence and not think twice, wherever he goes. If we're truly to oppose cruel and unusual punishment, then his death sentence would need to be carried out in a regulated manner, not by turning him loose into the public and hoping they mistreat him until someone kills him.



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
But, exactly why does this 'person' deserve a chance? He wasn't willing to give a chance to any of those he murdered or inhured? Please explain why he deserves a chance and why you seem to feel that there is no crime worth dying for.

I think he deserves a chance because he is a human being, bad or good he still is one.
I am not trying to defend him, what he done was wrong and IMHO cowardly but frankly if we lower ourselves to his level we lose what we were and we dont honour the dead.
I dont believe any crime is worth dieing for because we lower ourselves to their level.
I hope you have understood what I said.


Originally posted by TheDemonHunter
Trust me when I say that there are those who would end his existence and not think twice, wherever he goes. If we're truly to oppose cruel and unusual punishment, then his death sentence would need to be carried out in a regulated manner, not by turning him loose into the public and hoping they mistreat him until someone kills him.

Yes there are some and I dont blame them, they have their opinions and thier views and its thier right.
Killing is cruel and unusual, full stop.
No matter how its done or who to its still cruel.
If you turn him loose he will feel the shame, he will be unaccepted into society.
If you wanted a really "cruel" one there are far worse things to do to him than death.


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by TheDemonHunter


Trust me when I say that there are those who would end his existence and not think twice, wherever he goes. If we're truly to oppose cruel and unusual punishment, then his death sentence would need to be carried out in a regulated manner, not by turning him loose into the public and hoping they mistreat him until someone kills him.


Well, I guess we humans will never change. How sad that is.



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

I dont believe any crime is worth dieing for because we lower ourselves to their level.


I'm sorry, but your argument could be used against punishment of any type. Therefore, it is just a sign of weakness and lack of resolve to try and do what it takes to make this place better and safer for the rest of us that do obey the laws.

Your comment about turning him loose is truly out of touch with reality. Don't you ever pay attention to all the news reports of violent criminals being let out of prison and then committing even worse crimes, such as the convicted sex offenders killing little girls?


BTW, your argument does have a nice 'feel good' quality to it. However, until the science exists to mentally rehabilitate criminals, saving them in prisons is nothing more than a double burden (crime + maintenance) on society.

Maybe you'll be right about this in your next life.


[edit on 5/5/2005 by centurion1211]



posted on May, 5 2005 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
I'm sorry, but your argument could be used against punishment of any type. Therefore, it is just a sign of weakness and lack of resolve to try and do what it takes to make this place better and safer for the rest of us that do obey the laws.

Hardly,
You lock a man in a room with no one in there and you are not saying violence is justifiable and your NOT saying killing is justifiable.
Yet again this is you opinion and BTW it is not a sign of weakness, just a sign of high morals.


Your comment about turning him loose is truly out of touch with reality. Don't you ever pay attention to all the news reports of violent criminals being let out of prison and then committing even worse crimes, such as the convicted sex offenders killing little girls?


Umm ok, will this guy go and kill more people?
Most likely not, more chance of some loon off the street doing that than him.


BTW, your argument does have a nice 'feel good' quality to it. However, until the science exists to mentally rehabilitate criminals, saving them in prisons is nothing more than a double burden (crime + maintenance) on society.

The science does exist, just that we couldnt really afford to implement it on a large scale.
Have you ever heard of physcological warfare?
Very effective.


Maybe you'll be right about this in your next life.


[edit on 5/5/2005 by centurion1211]

I am right now, mabye you'll learn to accept other views than just try and insult someone.



posted on May, 6 2005 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
You lock a man in a room with no one in there and you are not saying violence is justifiable and your NOT saying killing is justifiable.
Yet again this is you opinion and BTW it is not a sign of weakness, just a sign of high morals.


High morals? Yes, of course; I'd forgotten how just and humane it is to lock a person in a cage, allowing them out only for periods of each day to interact with other violent individuals of similar moral standing. After all, allowing him to die by another criminal's hand or as some would suggest, by the hand of a vengeful civilian, is obviously a sign of high morals, because it's not viewed as officially sanctioned or condoned at that point. Then we can have his death and cling to some vain attempt at moral superiority.


Seriously, let's get a grip on reality here. If locked up in a military prison, do you think he'll survive if allowed to interact with other convicts? How long until he's found hanging in his cell, by his own hand or with help? And if he does survive his captivity and the "rehabilitation" he'd have a chance for under your system, do you really believe he'd be safe once released from prison?

Oh wait, that's right. Part of the argument was that he'll have to face mistreatment and persecution once released, thus continuing his punishment -- the fate worse than death, as you termed it, even though you'd say that he's been "rehabilitated." Only then, any attacks on his life could jeopardize other innocent souls with no connection to his deeds. I'm sure there would be people marking the days on their calendar until his release, plotting an untimely demise.

Your system encourages mistrust on the streets of our communities. Your system encourages violence on the streets of our communities. Your system encourages honest citizens to live in fear of their neighbors' past deeds. Your system encourages vigilante justice. Your system encourages the angry mob mentality. Your system encourages higher costs and overcrowding in our prison systems. Your system encourages more lying and deception on the part of criminals who have some hope of release. Your system takes away the right to safety that each law-abiding citizen should have.

That's cruel and unusual punishment for anyone who lives next door to the criminal once they're released. That's cruel and unusual punishment for the police who then have to defend this person's rights as a member of society, placing themselves in harm's way when an ordinary citizen is making this person's life miserable. That's cruel and unusual punishment for the average taxpayer, who must pay to keep this person clothed, fed, and sheltered. That's cruel and unusual punishment not for the criminal, but for the victims' families, who have to see this pathetic excuse for a human being drawing breath each day while their loved one never will.

That's not high moral standing. That's a refusal to accept reality as we know it in our society, in my opinion.

I can accept that you're personally against killing and feel that no crime is worth dying for. That's your choice, and perhaps in some far-flung future there will be room to use that as the sole guideline.

I believe, however, that in reality there are no moral absolutes; there are no black and white, clear-cut, all-or-nothing ideals in meting out punishment for crimes against our citizens; that criminals' rights should not outweigh the rights of those they would do wrong against; and that sometimes we have to make difficult choices to keep the innocents of society safe.



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