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Where is thy evidence against Bush???

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posted on May, 2 2005 @ 07:01 PM
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Why?
Why in your mind WONT an national ID Card help
Dont just come on and say ' you dont know what ur talking about ' without backing it up.
Makes you sound like you are just trying to poke people.




posted on May, 2 2005 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by SportyMB
My question is, Wheres the proof? The evidence?

I'm not talking about articles from Aljzeera. Im talking about actual, factual It's on CNN so it must be true evidence! (CNN at the minimumm, at least it's a start).

The media is controlled by the government. If you're looking for evidence in the US media, you're not going to find it. That would be equivalent to a public admission of guilt, which just isn't going to happen. People like you won't accept anything as evidence, short of the president himself admitting that he's a lying bastard in his state of the union speech. Sit down. You'll be waiting for that one forever.


If you want a place to start, read this and click on every link.

rigorousintuition.blogspot.com...

[edit on 2-5-2005 by Moe Foe]



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 07:19 PM
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Well seeing as your in Australia maybe you can tell us about what happened when your country tried to implement them.

Here are a number of good reasons against National ID cards.



-a card system needs rules. How many laws must be passed to force the citizenry to use and respect the card?

-A card or numbering system may lead to a situation where government policy becomes "technology driven" and will occur increasingly through the will of bureaucrats, rather than through law or public process

-Practical and administrative problems that will arise from lost, stolen or damaged cards (estimated at up to several hundred thousand per year)

-Will the system create enough savings to justify its construction? If the system fails, can it be disassembled?

-To what extent will the system entrench fraud and criminality? What new opportunities for criminality will the system create?

-What are the broader questions of social change that relate to this proposal ? How will it affect my children?

Concerns over the potential abuse of ID cards by authorities are supported by the experience of countries which have such cards. Complaints of harassment, discrimination and denial of service are, in some countries, quite common.


This is all from a site that mentions the Australian attempt many times.

www.privacyinternational.org...

More from same source.

It is, of course, true that a large number of people will support an ID card in the belief that it will solve many problems of fraud and criminality.

Whether a Parliament accepts the notion is another matter. In Australia and New Zealand, MPs have crossed the floor and resigned from their party over this issue. And even when only a minority of the public opposes the card, they do so with vehemence.


As you can see there are many valid reasons not to implement a National ID card.

In a country as large as the US we can't even stop Social Security Card fraud, giving out National ID's would just be another tool for Identity theives and terrorists.



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 07:35 PM
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Then your government needs to think of some way to STOP identitify theft,
And it hasnt been implemented since bush started this war on terrorism.
If americans are willing to go along with the patriotic act, why not a national ID system?



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 07:40 PM
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There is no way to stop ID theft. Why would you think there is? How the hell did this thread turn into an ID theft discussion anyway?



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 07:52 PM
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Sorry, Global, but you lost me with the national ID card...

I think it's highly improbable that it would help. Then again, there's a chance that it might help, if only marginally; therefore, anything that's mathematically probable is possible (or something like that). So yeah, it might help, IDEALLY.

The problem is with the plan for our ID cards. Turns out the illegals will be getting a waiver for them...you say, duh, it's a NATIONAL ID card. True enough, but the illegals THEN get amnesty and work visas, not to mention legal status. Oh, look at that! They get to become LEGAL!! Now, the odds on the ID card helping when the illegals become legal are REALLY low, but it's still possible.


I ain't bashing you Global, I'm just pointing out the flaws in the plan. Like I said, I was with you till this. And, from what I see, the ID card and those damn Patriot Acts go hand in hand. Don't worry, though, we'll find out sooner than we think...



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 08:00 PM
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I dunno, I reackon if it was implemented properly, and governened properly it is something that could really root out alot of problems.
Sure its something that would have to be thought out for quite some time to coem up with a working plan to fit in tourists, immagrints and all this, But I Personally see it as the only way america is truley going to sift out terrorist cells within the country.

Until the gvt knows who every citizen in the country is, they wont eva be able to remove terrorism.

Especially with mexican borders.



posted on May, 2 2005 @ 11:49 PM
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What?? Still no responses to the suspect actions and beliefs of Bush? What happened to "give me evidence, blah blah blah?"


I guess you should be careful what you wish for...



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 12:26 AM
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This is for the op, you wanted proof of Rumsfeld and Saddam, enjoy! The picture is on the website.
www.gwu.edu...
Shaking Hands: Iraqi President Saddam Hussein greets Donald Rumsfeld, then special envoy of President Ronald Reagan, in Baghdad on December 20, 1983



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 02:47 AM
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Once again, I need to stress this link. It delves into some serious "coincidences" in depth. I highly recommend this one.

rigorousintuition.blogspot.com...



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 03:18 AM
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Originally posted by SportyMB
Many people here on ATS start threads, post replies and give comments that accuse President Bush and Rumsfield of being these war monging, evil doers who side with satan. Many of you have even gone as far as to put them in the same category as Hitler, Stalin, Bin Laden, Saddam Hussien and many other non-disputeable tyrants and all around bad guys.

My question is, Wheres the proof? The evidence?

I'm not talking about articles from Aljzeera. Im talking about actual, factual It's on CNN so it must be true evidence! (CNN at the minimumm, at least it's a start).


I don't understand where you are coming from. For starters, it was illegal for the U.S. to have gone into Iraq and blown their country to smitherines in the first place. Iraq posed no threat to the United States what-so-ever. And, I saw how you mentioned how you dont like Bush placed in the same catagory as Hitler. Well, it was also illegal to round up all those Jews who were no threat to him or to Germany and do what he had done to them. So, thats just for starters. I dont have much time right now, so this will be brief.

No one needs any documents, other than to read any literature on International Law to see that he committed a very serious crime as Commander in Chief, by going to war in the first place. Also, the fact that he not only overlooked torture to the detainees by the CIA, et al, but in fact personally ordered a lot of it, also can't go unnoticed.

Anyway, why dont you do a few Google searches on some of those subjects, and re-think your idea that thre is no evidence against him.



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 04:10 PM
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Still no response, eh?

Your thread is a joke Sporty. Thanks, though, I always need a good laugh.



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 05:14 PM
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Ok first off, Wether or not there were WMD's in Iraq is a mute point now. What is of importance is the fact that we do not have them. So if they are still out there somewhere. He failed.

Second, We have now poured a ton of money into building up Iraq after we failed in our mission to get the WMD's out of Iraq, which was the reason we were there. That money could have gone into supporting our own country. Money is being removed from education and other domestic needs. There he has failed.

Third, we paid and supplied terrorists when it suited our needs. I find it very hard to swallow that we did not keep an eye on what our money was being spent on, especially in the hands of fundamentalists. Like as been pointed out there were terrorist attacks before Bush, but then why wasn't there intellegence on them. The USS Cole was hit like a year earlier. So he didn't get intellegence working before 911? There he failed

Fourth, he has allianated the US from most of the world diplomacy. I don't give a damn how big and strong our country is, world diplomacy is a must. There he has failed.

The fact of the matter, we have spent so much money building the infrastructure in Iraq, that we are letting our own foundation deteriorate. Our people come first with our money, not build up another. And don't give me the bull about how bad Sadam was. If that was such fricken concern, why didn't old Bush Senior take him out sooner? It had nothing to do with "freeing Iraq".



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by SportyMB
My question is, Wheres the proof? The evidence?

Here's a few:

Comment in reference to Saddam.

and mister Rumsfeld visited him on regular basis; selling weapons to Iraq and making big oil deals





Proof?!? You want proof?? Here is proof:

www.gwu.edu...

Now I want proof. Where are those pesky WMD's?!?!? Where is Bin Laden?!?!?



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by goose
This is for the op, you wanted proof of Rumsfeld and Saddam, enjoy! The picture is on the website.
www.gwu.edu...
Shaking Hands: Iraqi President Saddam Hussein greets Donald Rumsfeld, then special envoy of President Ronald Reagan, in Baghdad on December 20, 1983


Wonderful! So does these pictures!

Shocking proof no 1!

Shocking proof no 2

Shocking proof no 3

A great President sitting next to a great mass murderer!



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by CyberKat
I don't understand where you are coming from. For starters, it was illegal for the U.S. to have gone into Iraq and blown their country to smitherines in the first place. Iraq posed no threat to the United States what-so-ever.


WRONG. It was the UN Resolution 1441 that gave the United States the legal justification to use force in the lieu of previous UN resolutions against Iraq which Saddam Hussein have not been consistently obeyed and followed to the letter of the law set forth by the UN Security Council. Read the full text of the UN Resolution 1441 before you blah-blah some opinionated nonsense about "illegality" of invasion.
en.wikipedia.org...

FACT: Iraq, under Saddam Hussein, have consistently failed to honor and follow past UN resolutions to the letter since the end of the first Gulf War.

FACT: Iraq have used force to shoot down US and British warplanes in the No-Fly Zones that were set up for Iraq accordingly to the UN Security resolutions after the first Gulf War. Several times between 1991 and 2003.

FACT: The inspections were going nowhere. Saddam and his people have consistently misled and stalled the UN inspection processes since 1991 with the intents of diplomatic non-compliance, uncooperative manners and deceptive means, all in political, scientific and physical languages.

Get these facts straight.


[edit on 5/3/2005 by the_oleneo]



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 06:49 PM
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Iraq refused to comply because of the sanctions that were destroying their economy for so many years. I can't say I blame Saddam for being pissed about that. They were torturing Iraq and literally holding them down economically. I seriously doubt America would cooperate with anyone who did that to us. What if someone suddenly said we had to disarm and comply to all their inspections? And, on top of that, they cut us off from the world trade, destroying our economy for 10 years with no end in sight? What do you suppose the US would do?
I get so tired of the hypocrisy.



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 07:03 PM
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Good point, Moe Foe.

It's a little different when you flip the script. Imagine if they did all that stuff to us; there's no way we would stand for it. But somehow, Iraq was bad for reacting this way.

BTW, I like your sig!
It's funny, but it's sad; you can rest assured that the people in control already assumed that about us.



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 07:10 PM
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Oleneo,

Sanctions must of been working, IRAQ had no WMD.
I dont see how they were stalling, or deceiving.
' Show us your WMD Saddam, we are the UN '
' But I do not have anything to show '
I dont beleive you, You must be lying!


And it WASNT legal for the USA to go in,

Article 51 of the U.N. charter allows a state to take action in self defense. It doesn't allow you to invade somebody just because you want to invade them.

Which is exactly what Bush did!



posted on May, 3 2005 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by the_oleneo
Get these facts straight.





Well, if you lined up some "facts" rather than nonsense and spin, others might follow. You lose it totally when you quote UN resolution 1441 and "the inspections were going nowehere" in the same breath.

In plain sight the rationalization of Bush's blunders in order to support the war profiteering efforts crumbles.

"The inspections were going nowhere" can only be coupled logically with "there were no WMDs to be found" except when you intervene with "let's fabricate and falsify all the evidence that we can to justify a foreign invasion to US Congress - we'll filter out the stuff that is not useful, and only report on stuff that supports our war cause, no matter how spurious it is".

FACT: The Bush administration is comprised of CRIMINALS and LIARS.







 
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