The Miracle of Medjugorje

Originally posted by Croat56
So let me ask you something. We can have faith in God and that will get us into heaven alone Not helping others,doing good deeds, being good? Just faith? Why bother having hell?

Those who love God, will do his work. You will WANT to serve him. Paul spoke to the effect that your salvation is done, and now your working on your crown. Your reward.


For those who are not Christs sheep, they dont do his work. They do their own. Even the ones who try to 'work their way to heaven' are doing it for who? not God. Themselves.

a little information on Jesus' brother, James.

en.wikipedia.org...en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
a little information on Jesus' brother, James.

en.wikipedia.org...en.wikipedia.org...

This thread is about Medjugorje not James. If you want to know info on that check out the bottom of this page.

[edit on 4/30/2005 by Croat56]

Originally posted by Croat56
So let me ask you something. We can have faith in God and that will get us into heaven alone Not helping others,doing good deeds, being good? Just faith? Why bother having hell?

It may seem like I'm being picky, but I'm not and this is probably what you meant, but our faith is in Christ(who yes, is God. What I mean by this is alot of religions can very easily talk about God, but when it comes down to talking about who Christ is that is where they draw the line and refuse to believe who He is.).

The Bible says hell was created for the devil and his angels. A verse in the Bible got my attention the other day and it seemed like the lightbulb over my head turned on about it(God showed me what it meant). Isaiah 5:14 In it it says "therefore hell hath enlarged herself............"

Hell was prepared for the angels that sinned, but when sin entered man it(hell) now has another purpose, for those of the human race who reject Christ. I just looked up the word for "enlarged" in that verse, and it also means to broaden and make room.

Jesus didn't die for the angels who sinned, so hell had an original purpose, to house them for eternity. But now people will go there also, but people were shown a major side of the love of God. Anyone can take advantage of this love(Jesus Christ). Hell is escapable through Christ.

In Isaiah 64:6 it says our good works are like filthy rags. That doesn't mean if I give $100 to the tsunami relief it's pointless and no good will come of it. It means that the $100 that I gave doesn't earn me points with God that I can trade in for my salvation because that's not how it works.

But after salvation through Christ, I AM FREE from works. I get it, I don't have to earn my salvation, I can do good works because I am saved. And now because the Holy Spirit now lives in me, my spirit is "born again" and I can see things from God's point of view. My good works that I will do now(Ephesians 2:10 tells us God has set the opportunities up for us to do the good works if we walk with Him and pay attention for them), are meant to get others to the saving knowledge of Christ and are always meant to point others to Him and not ourselves. If I fall back into the trap of thinking the works are for us or about us, we are still saved, but the works are not of the full benefit that God intended, for we need to point others to Christ, because He is the only God and He is the one who can save someone eternally.

Originally posted by jake1997

Originally posted by Croat56
So let me ask you something. We can have faith in God and that will get us into heaven alone Not helping others,doing good deeds, being good? Just faith? Why bother having hell?

Those who love God, will do his work. You will WANT to serve him. Paul spoke to the effect that your salvation is done, and now your working on your crown. Your reward.


For those who are not Christs sheep, they dont do his work. They do their own. Even the ones who try to 'work their way to heaven' are doing it for who? not God. Themselves.

Please jake, I know plenty of "christians" who only have faith in God, but are not good people. They do not deserve to be let in to heaven.

Now go away you catholic bashers

Originally posted by Croat56

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
a little information on Jesus' brother, James.

en.wikipedia.org...en.wikipedia.org...

This thread is about Medjugorje not James. If you want to know info on that check out the bottom of this page.

[edit on 4/30/2005 by Croat56]

The point was to show that Mary was not a prepetual virgin, not to have a discussion about James. If she wasn't a virgin than something is awfully fishy.

Did you not read the link I sent you Ryan?

Please jake, I know plenty of "christians" who only have faith in God, but are not good people. They do not deserve to be let in to heaven.

So dont let them in.
Hey...is JP2 in that group? I mean, he told a billion peeps they dont need Jesus. They say Jesus aint the son of God. JP2 says thats cool..you will goto heaven anyway.

SO is JP2 in that group croat?

Look, your right. Jesus said that many will say LORD LORD..and he will deny them. They only gave lip service. They had bad works. No heart.

But this is about that mary thing. Ive showed you scripture. You really need to study it.
Im not against you. Im actually trying to help even tho it dont feel like it. Check it out for yourself

[edit on 30-4-2005 by jake1997]

Originally posted by Croat56
Did you not read the link I sent you Ryan?

possibly, please send me that link again, I am not sure which link you are refering to.

Originally posted by jake1997

Please jake, I know plenty of "christians" who only have faith in God, but are not good people. They do not deserve to be let in to heaven.

So dont let them in.
Hey...is JP2 in that group? I mean, he told a billion peeps they dont need Jesus. They say Jesus aint the son of God. JP2 says thats cool..you will goto heaven anyway.

SO is JP2 in that group croat?

Look, your right. Jesus said that many will say LORD LORD..and he will deny them. They only gave lip service. They had bad works. No heart.

But this is about that mary thing. Ive showed you scripture. You really need to study it.
Im not against you. Im actually trying to help even tho it dont feel like it. Check it out for yourself

[edit on 30-4-2005 by jake1997]

No I am trying to help you. Trying to show you and the world the miracles the teachings. Marys messages have told us to a conversion back to God back to Jesus. Thats all she wants for us. And what is this you are saying about John Paul the great?

Originally posted by Croat56
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Please jake, I know plenty of "christians" who only have faith in God, but are not good people. They do not deserve to be let in to heaven.

The thing is I can be nice to someone and do something good for them, and 2 minutes later say something wrong and hurt someones feelings. I've done this plenty of times. That's the whole thing, noone "deserves" to go to heaven, eternal everlasting life is a gift.

And what someone else who says they are Christian(they may be and they may not be, God knows, He won't be fooled, read Galatians 6:7-8) does should not affect what I do as a christian. My job is to work on my relationship with God. I need to let the Holy Spirit change me into what God intended me to be. And in the process of living my life as God intends that other "christian" who is not a good person, will be watching and God will bring you to that person's mind. You will be a light in the darknes that God will use to change that person.

Here's another thing. I am divorced and have an exwife who LITERALLY ABANDONED me with 4 small kids. When I filed for divorce she had the guts to try to get the kids to be placed with her. She was not my favorite person. The day my divorce was final and she didn't get the kids, but got to have them for visitations more than I thought she deserved, I was not in a good mood.

It "happened" to be a Wednesday night and I went to church classes. Someone asked me how it went, and during the course of the conversation I said something about her and what she did and how it was bad and God would pay her back for what she's done. You know what, God used that person to knock me down off my pedastal. She said, "But if she ever comes to Christ and asks for forgiveness for her sins, you have to give her that." He gave that forgiveness to me with no strings attached so how could I demand that God not extend this same forgiveness to her if she ever asks for it.

That was 6 years ago and I still don't talk to her unless I have too. But in that six years, God has had me realize something. I would not want to go to hell and live there forever. So why would I wish that on someone else. If I am a new person in Christ, then I can't wish that upon anyone, or even have a no care attitude about where they will spend eternity, my thinking has to change. I have to see people as God sees them. He desires that none go to hell, so that has to be my desire also. My wrong thinking has to change, I wouldn't want to go to hell and I need to have that same desire for others to escape it also.

When we enter eternity, some of the things that are a big deal to us now, will become so insignificant.

Originally posted by Croat56
Jake the devil would not do this. The devil would not perform miracles such as healing. Now ill admit I havent read the whole bible yet. Im sure once Flyersfan comes back she'll give you a better explination.

Why wouldnt he?

let me restate this for the thousandth time:

THE DEVIL WOULD NOT PREACH JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It would undermine his entire operation!

[edit on 30-4-2005 by Ryanp5555]

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
I'm sorry but I dont think a demon is going to be preaching a Christian "sect" of their religion.

satan's specialty is deception. Read 2 Corinthians 11:1-4. It appears it is possible to preach another Jesus, one that doesn't save.

quote: Originally posted by Croat56
Jake the devil would not do this. The devil would not perform miracles such as healing. Now ill admit I havent read the whole bible yet. Im sure once Flyersfan comes back she'll give you a better explination

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


The bible says he does

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

MARY IS NOT JESUS.
The name is the same but mary is in heaven. She cannot come back till Christ does.

The devil will preach anything if he can get you to bow to it. (except god).

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The devil can/does/will do everything to fool you. The only reason the elect are not fooled is because of the Holy Spirit

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
let me restate this for the thousandth time:

THE DEVIL WOULD NOT PREACH JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It would undermine his entire operation!

[edit on 30-4-2005 by Ryanp5555]

www.medjugorje.org...
Steve Shawl: In my own experience of conversion, there was a simultaneous deepening of love of Our Lady and a yearning for the Eucharist and all the sacraments of the Church. Coming to Medjugorje is a very special gift and grace. Once you receive that grace, I truly believe that you are being invited into Our Lady’s army against evil. All we have to do is to look around and see the incredible evil that has permeated our society and the whole world. It’s truly a spiritual war that is taking place, building up to something.

I see the real work here is to preach the message of Our Lady and more involvement into a particular institution.

Ana Shawl: I think that, in the beginning, they are drawn to her, just like running to the mother. But I think that after a while She brings them to her Son. If anybody is fixed on her, She will shift it! Like a good mum who says: “Go to dad”. If you read her messages, you see that it is all about her Son. Once you start following the messages, you will go that way.

So to Jesus through Mary. Show me one instance in the Bible where it teaches that.

I guess that is a good point. But the question is, is it to jesus from mary or is it mary spreading the word of jesus?

Why dont you guys all just take a trip there and decide for yourselves. Im sure you would change your mind. Most ppl who go there that are not catholic do convert themselves. Not that Im telling you to convert. Just take a trip there. You find it a wonderful experience. Just as Flyersfan did, and this time you wont hear any gunshots. hopefully

And Ryan go to where it sais this page. That is the link.

Originally posted by Croat56
Why dont you guys all just take a trip there and decide for yourselves. Im sure you would change your mind. Most ppl who go there that are not catholic do convert themselves. Not that Im telling you to convert. Just take a trip there. You find it a wonderful experience. Just as Flyersfan did, and this time you wont hear any gunshots. hopefully

And Ryan go to where it sais this page. That is the link.

Chirst makes it quite clear that in the last days, the faithless wil be crying for signs and wonders.. - better still read Matthew 24:23

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Sounds to me like intelligent people are getting deceived. And it goes on to state, do not go anywhere near these places. So why should I go against the words of the Bible and what Christ sais? Huh??

Originally posted by shmick25
Chirst makes it quite clear that in the last days, the faithless wil be crying for signs and wonders.. - better still read Matthew 24:23

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Sounds to me like intelligent people are getting deceived. And it goes on to state, do not go anywhere near these places. So why should I go against the words of the Bible and what Christ sais? Huh??

Faithless? faithless? I can assure you the children who saw here were not faithless, most ppl who go there are not faithless. Infact the children never heard of places like fatima and did not know that Mary appeared to any1. Mary does not go against the bible. What she is preaching is love towards each other, conversion back to God and to fallow Jesus. There is no Devil there. The miracles performed there are lasting miracles. People who could not walk now stand. The devil will not do this.

Flyers fan, help me educate them. Your the best at this!