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The Miracle of Medjugorje

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posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 03:09 PM
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Flyers fan,

When I say that "mary this' or "mary that'..

it is because the RCC gives credence to the claims. The claims are anti-biblical.
You gave ZERO biblical support for them. Telling me to goto the RCC (aka The harlot babylon) does not work.

The bible works. Show me with the bible and I will beleive.

Mary did not go into heaven like Jesus
mary was not born sinless
mary said she wants glory.
mary does not redeem
mary is not queen with God
Mary is not the mother of God

Where was mary when God laid the foundations of the earth?
Not there ehh?
Guess she is not his mother.

Why is this important?
Because if the bible dont say it, then its satanic.




posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 08:13 PM
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Jake the devil would not do this. The devil would not perform miracles such as healing. Now ill admit I havent read the whole bible yet. Im sure once Flyersfan comes back she'll give you a better explination.



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 09:02 PM
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i believe the devil does preform such miracles as that, however, I believe it is a false healing, but again not sure either. However, the devil would not preach Jesus, which is what people need to understand here.



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Confession is a sacrament. Sacraments bring sanctification and grace
from the Holy Spirit. [edit on 4/29/2005 by FlyersFan]


I have a 2 questions, where does the Holy Spirit dwell? And what do you mean by grace?

[edit on 29-4-2005 by dbrandt]



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by Ryanp5555
i believe the devil does preform such miracles as that, however, I believe it is a false healing, but again not sure either. However, the devil would not preach Jesus, which is what people need to understand here.


What do you mean false healing? I am talking about paralized people walking here.



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 09:55 PM
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Can we get back on topic? I started this to spread the word of Medjugorje. Not to argue over dogma.



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 11:44 PM
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i mean it isn't necessarily healing. I am not discrediting the miracles taking place here, I am simply questioning the doctrine followed by Catholics in an educational sort of way. It is my belief that catholicism is misunderstood, and even though I was both baptized and confirmed a catholic, I still don't fully understand it.



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 11:45 PM
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perhaps a better description would be healing with the end results lacking. Like how that TV "healer" whom I can't recall the name of, "healed" that crippled person and she walked. Then she died of a collapsed something or rather from trying to walk.



posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Ryanp5555
i believe the devil does preform such miracles

The devil does perform false 'miracles' and does show
up as a false angel of light. But he doesn't heal. There
are times that it appears that he has healed .. but it doesn't
'take' .. it breaks down after a very sort time and it wasn't
a true healing.



posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by jake1997
The claims are anti-biblical.

Says you. Nothing Mary says goes against scripture.

The bible works. Show me with the bible and I will beleive.

There in lays your problem. The bible doesn't contain all of Christ's
teachings. The bible even says so - 'if all Jesus' teachings were written
down, then there wouldn't be enough books in the world to hold them
all'. You want to be Sola Scriptura. Fine. It's your choice to pursue a
non-biblical notion of 'bible only'. No where in the bible does it say
'bible only' and in fact the bible itself says that there is MUCH more
truth than the bible holds.

you should know that the bible itself (put together by a Catholic counsel
~350ad) says that the bible isn't all there is to faith.

Sola scriptura is a notion invented by Martin Luther while he reworked
the bible to fit his newly invented religion. Tossed out books. Lined
through others. Rearranged according to 'importance'. etc. etc. Scared
the crap out of the other 'reformers' while he was doing it. They had to
pull him back or else nothing would have been left.

Anyways - some scripture quotes that support sacred traditions and
oral teachings -

Mark 4:33 - "With many such parables he spoke the word to them .."
(what were the others? Scripture doesn't contain ...)
Mark 6:34 "He began to teach them many things."
(what things? Scripture doesn't contain)
John 16:12 "I have yet many things to say to you, but you can not
bear them now."
(what things? Scripture doesn't contain)
Jon 20:30 - "now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the
disciples, which are not written in this book"
(what things? Scripture doesn't contain)
John 21:25 "But there are also many other things which Jesus did;
were every one of them to be written, I suppose the world itself could
not contain the books that would be written."
Acts 1:2-3 - To the apostles he presented himself alive after his
passion by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days,
and speaking of the kingdom of God"
(what things were taught? It's not written down)
See also Luke 24:15-16, 25-27

So we have Sacred tradition and oral teachings ... which the bible
encourages us to use.

1 Cor 11:2 - "Maintain the traditions ... even as I have delivered them to you."
2 Thess 2:15 "Hold to the traditions .. taught by word of mouth or by letter."
2 Thess 3:6 "... traditions that you received from us"
1 Cor 15:1 - " ... the Gospel, which you received ..."
1 Gal 1:9 - " ... the gospel .. which you received."
1 Thes 2:9 - "we preached to you the gospel of God"
1 Thes 2:13 - "when you received the word of God which you heard
from us, you acceptd it not as the word of men, but as what it really
is, the word of God"
2 Tim 1:13-14: "Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have
heard from me ..."


Mary did not go into heaven like Jesus

Says you. Sacred tradition which has been passed down
for thousands of years says otherwise. So do the early
church fathers.

mary was not born sinless

Says you. Sacred tradition which has been passed down
for thousands of years says otherwise. So do the early
church fathers.

mary said she wants glory.

All the saints in heaven will reign with Christ.

mary does not redeem

Of course not. Only Christ redeemed mankind.
Mary was redeemed by Christ. It's in the Catechism.
That's what Catholic believe. Try reading it.

mary is not queen with God

Says you. Check out the crowns that the saints are
given. Try again.

Mary is not the mother of God

Yes she is. She didn't give birth to a cat or a tree.
She gave birth and raised God Incarnate. The Word
made flesh. God. She is His mother. Deal with it.
www.catholic.com...

Where was mary when God laid the foundations of the earth?
A twinkle in God's eyes.

Guess she is not his mother.

His mother. Capital H when using a pronoun discussing God.
Yes she definately IS the Mother of God. She is the Mother of
the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity - Jesus - God incarnate.
She is the Mother of God. Jesus wasn't born from a sheep or a
rock. He was born of a woman, Mary. She's His mother.
That's just a fact. He wasn't spot zapped onto the earth at age
33 all set to die. He was carried in His mother's womb, born,
taken care of and raised in the Jewish faith, and so on.

Because if the bible dont say it, then its satanic.

As I said, if you choose to practice the non-biblical religion of
Sola Scriptura, go right ahead. But of course being Sola Scriptura
goes against the biblical teaching of maintaining sacred traditions
as well as the biblical teaching that there is MUCH more truth that
was taught but that wasn't written down. Go ahead and continue
with your Sola Scriptura ways .. even though THEY are anti-biblical.
Whatever.

[edit on 4/30/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
And what do you mean by grace?


www.catholic.com...
Biblical support of the verse, 'God pours His grace into us'

Grace: What It Is and What It Does
www.catholic.com...

Believe it or not. It's your choice.



posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
and grace from the Holy Spirit.

where does the Holy Spirit dwell?

Ha ha. Trick question. *rolling eyes*
Now you want to get into the 'indwelling'?
This is a thread that's supposed to be about
Medjugorje and one person sharing that with
others.

www.catholic.com...

"All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who
apportions to each one individually as he wills" (1 Cor. 12:11).

The Holy Spirit is the sanctifier who gives grace and gifts
AS HE WILLS.




[edit on 4/30/2005 by FlyersFan]



posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Yes she definately IS the Mother of God. She is the Mother of
the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity - Jesus - God incarnate.
She is the Mother of God. Jesus wasn't born from a sheep or a
rock. He was born of a woman, Mary. She's His mother.
That's just a fact. He wasn't spot zapped onto the earth at age
33 all set to die. He was carried in His mother's womb, born,
taken care of and raised in the Jewish faith, and so on.




I am not trying to trap you when I converse, so my questions are guenuine. I am not asking because I want to convert religions but I am asking to find out what causes one to believe in certain things.

So my question here is since you are saying Mary is the mother of God, is that when Jesus existence began?



posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by dbrandt
and grace from the Holy Spirit.


Ha ha. Trick question. *rolling eyes*
Now you want to get into the 'indwelling'?



The Holy Spirit is the sanctifier who gives grace and gifts
AS HE WILLS.

[edit on 4/30/2005 by FlyersFan]


Well first off you have me saying in quotes, "and grace from the Holy Spirit"

I didn't say that in a post, so I would like to know if I said this in another post, because I don't remember saying this ever. And if that's the case you changed what I said.

Second, I can surley see where you think this is a trick question, but it's a question to find out what you believe on certain matters.



posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 06:15 PM
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Belief in apparitions is not required as part of our faith so why bother?

It is true that apparitions fall under a category called "private revelation", which is not required for us to believe in as part of the Catholic Faith. So La Salette, Lourdes, Fatima, Medjugorje, etc. are all private revelation.

But, many incredible graces come to those who believe and follow these private revelations. We have all heard stories of dramatic healings of mind, body, and spirit in all of these major Marian apparition sites. Medjugorje is no exception, and I have personally witnessed many incredible miracles that have come about as a result of the graces given in Medjugorje. Our Lady has said many times in Medjugorje that we are living in "A Time of Grace". Our Lady asks us to take advantage of this grace to change our lives and those of our loved ones back to lives that will lead us to heaven rather than eternal damnation. As much as modern theologians and preachers of many denominations try to white wash this reality. There are only two places we can ultimately go, heaven or hell. Satan has done a very good job at making people believe he does not exist. We must put on the "Full armor of God" as St. Paul says if we are to survive satans attacks.

It is incredible to imagine that Jesus loves us so much that He has sent His mother to earth as early as the 1300's to warn us, and implore us to change. We have historically done a poor job of listening and responding.




I already believe in God and am a good person. Why do I need Medjugorje?

Most of the answer exists in the previous question, but I would have to ask anyone who has this attitude to truly look at their lives. I doubt anyone who is honest with themselves, including the greatest saints, would ever dare to say that they did not have room for improvement. All would agree that they could have lived their lives better and more perfectly. Our time on earth is a great opportunity to do good. It is a great opportunity to earn merit. Once we die, this opportunity is gone. The graces offered to everyone who asks with an open heart in Medjugorje, will change their life. The graces will strengthen you in your faith, and bring you to a closer relationship with Jesus and His Blessed Mother. There is no refuting this. It is simple truth.



posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by Croat56
Our Lady has said many times in Medjugorje that we are living in "A Time of Grace". Our Lady asks us to take advantage of this grace to change our lives and those of our loved ones back to lives that will lead us to heaven rather than eternal damnation.



It is a great opportunity to earn merit. The graces will strengthen you in your faith, and bring you to a closer relationship with Jesus and His Blessed Mother. There is no refuting this. It is simple truth.


The part above this is also a quote that didn't show up as it, this is part of what I am questioning.



So how we live our life gets us to heaven, is that what you are saying?

Live lives that do good and a person will enter heaven?

So this merit that we can earn, this lessens a persons time in purgatory, right?

mer·it ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mrt)
n.


Christianity. Spiritual credit granted for good works.


Sorry but I have to refute this. I don't see it as truth.

Please answer the questions.

[edit on 30-4-2005 by dbrandt]



posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 07:01 PM
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Why do you not see it as truth? If you do good things you will be let into heaven, if you do bad things you will be sent to hell. Why should you be let into heaven if you have not done good things for others?



posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by Croat56
Why do you not see it as truth? If you do good things you will be let into heaven, if you do bad things you will be sent to hell. Why should you be let into heaven if you have not done good things for others?




Because that's not what the Bible says.
Ephesians 2:8&9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works lest any man should boast.


These verses tell us that we are not saved by our works, and they also tell us our faith in God cannot be boasted about by us, for even it is a gift from God.

You don't work for a gift, if you do it's wages. A gift is given freely to someone and when that someone accepts the gift it is theirs to keep.

Salvation(faith in who Christ is and what HE HAS DONE) is a gift from God, it can't be earned, because the price is too high. Salvation requires a 100% from birth to death sinless life. Nobody, man or woman has ever done this, nor could we do this. God knows that so He offers it to us freely in Christ.

Now this doesn't mean we are the same and we go on living the same. When the Holy Spirit, literally takes up residence in a person at the moment of salvation, He changes us and good works are produced because of salvation not for salvation.

I don't mean this mean, but you are the 2nd person of catholic belief this week that has told me that a person goes to heaven based on their works. Now I see why the pope embraces other religions because they are works based also. But the protestant religions are kept at a distance because in general that is not what we believe. Not that everyone who claims a protestant faith is truly saved.

I really don't know how to end this post. Thank you for answering the questions I had clearly and confirming something concerning the catholic teachings.



posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 07:36 PM
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So let me ask you something. We can have faith in God and that will get us into heaven alone Not helping others,doing good deeds, being good? Just faith? Why bother having hell?



posted on Apr, 30 2005 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Says you. Nothing Mary says goes against scripture.


In the thread, "Something about Mary", you will find some of this

I am the perfect and perpetual Virgin Mary, Mother of the True God

None of this is in scripture. Please show the verse for all to see




offer all my love, my compassion, my help and protection to the people.

Are you not under my shadow and protection?



Please show us where mary can protect us. She cant. She is dead. She cant see us and cant hear us. Your following a demon


Am I not your fountain of life?
Whoa!! Mary is the fountain of life? Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Your demon stole that from Christ




Mary appeared in silence to Saint Catherine Laboure and showed her the image of a medal she wished to have struck.

This mary wants you to make a graven image.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Who does she want you to make an image of? God? Jesus? Nope. HER.
"Our Lady appeared on the medal ..."

In 1840 mary becomes sinless. 1840!!!

At the same time, mary gives ANOTHER graven image of HER


"As Sister Justine looked at this vision, an inner voice told her that this Scapular of The Immaculate Heart was to be an instrument in the conversion of souls, particularly of disbelievers and by this Scapular the Blessed Virgin would obtain for them the Grace of a happy death in the Friendship of God. She was advised that Our Lady desired that this Scapular be promoted far and wide so that souls might seek these particular Graces through its devout use."



oK, IN 1858 here she comes again to declare she is sinless


Eventually the lady said "Que soy era Immaculada Conceptiou" - I am The Immaculate Conception.

Please show scripture to confirm this. Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

In 1876 she was often seen with demons.
She didnt cast any out. Merely showed up after they did.



I am merciful and Mistress of My Son

Scripture? Mary has no mercy to give us. Please show otherwise or this is a liar...a demon




Have courage, patience and resignation; you will suffer and will not be free of troubles; try to be faithful and make known my glory

...Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.
Who gets the glory? Mary?
No
God. Not mary




“if you want to serve me, be simple and let your deeds prove your words".
WHOA!!
Paul, Pete, James, John... NOT ONE OF THEM ever said this. It was always about serving God.
Your mary is a glory hound...just like satan whom she serves. That was his fall you know. He wanted to be worshiped by man. Now YOU are giving it to him in the form of this demon




”wherever you are and whatever you do, you can gain blessings and can proclaim my glory”.

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Luk 2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Luk 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
Look there-
The angel didnt say "give me glory". He said Glory to God.


What is Jesus doing?


Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Joh 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

your mary is a glory hound. Please show me a person in the bible who told another to glorify him or her. Where does it say mary is to be glorified?






I then asked Her if I should start straight away to proclaim Her glory. “Yes! Yes!,
She was reallll eager there ehh. Kinda like some demon who has wanted glory ever since he fell





”is your healing not great evidence of My Power?

Mary has power now too ehh. Power to forgive sins and now her power to do healings. Please show scripture





“I CAN STOP MY SON NO LONGER, France will suffer”.
Judgment has not yet come. We are not in the OT, under the law. This is pure demon here, saying that Jesus will cause famine, war..etc



:”I have chosen you”.

Mary decides who she wants to go to. She thinks shes God




“I am totally merciful and Mistress of My Son. His Heart has so much love for mine…that He will touch the most hardened hearts for me. I have especially come to save sinners.

Please show me scripture. You cant. Wake up!!! If its not in the bible, its not form God. This is not only absent from the bible. Its AGAINST the bible.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.





“you will yourself, go to the Prelaat and present him with the model which you have made, tell him that helping you pleases Me more than seeing how my children wear it

More graven images





“these graces are from My Son; I take them out of His Heart. He can refuse me nothing”.

Look there! She now has power over Jesus Christ!


Now we goto Fatima

We know that the bible says that salvation is a gift of God. All you have to do is call on Jesus, confess He is the son of God, and repent of your sins.

lets look at what mary says about this




"Are you willing to offer yourselves to God and bear all the sufferings He wills to send you, as an act of reparation for the sins by which He is offended, and of supplication for the conversion of sinners?" They replied "Yes". "Then you are going to have much to suffer, but the grace of God will be your comfort

She says you have to suffer for your sins. Also you must suffer for others.
THis is anti bible. Show scripture for this. Jesus suffered for us. Salvation and forgiveness of sins is FREE. Its here now! Just ask




Then, moved by an interior impulse that was communicated to them, they fell to their knees, (before mary) repeating in their hearts: O Most Holy Trinity, I adore You! My God My God I love You in the Most Blessed Sacrament!
Our Lady spoke again "Pray the rosary every day in order to obtain peace for the world and the end of the war."

First, the rosary is a pagan ritual of counting on beads (mardi gras?) . Islam does it, hindus do it..it goes back to babylon.
Second...look what happens when you bow before a christians feet

Rev 19:10 I fell at his feet to worship him, but he wouldn't let me. "Don't do that," he said. "I'm a servant just like you, and like your brothers and sisters who hold to the witness of Jesus. The witness of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Even the angels dont let you do it. This mary does





He wants to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart."

DEVOTE: give entirely to a specific person.
Does God want you to devote yourself to mary? NOOO! (panic yell...not anger..)
God gets all the worship. Not mary. This mary is a glory hound. Its not real.

There is lots more...but if you cant see it now...then you dont want to..or perhaps

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

This rcc cult thing is nothing but pure babylon

John paul said that muslims dont need jesus for heaven. Who does that?
Who says you dont need christ?
wake up
Time is too short




[edit on 30-4-2005 by jake1997]



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