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Could the pledge of allegiance be ritual brainwash?

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posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 11:21 AM
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I have been thinking about this, and i have come to the conclusion that the pledge of allegiance could be a form of brainwash. It is said every day in school, and almost every american knows it by heart. After all, what is its intended purpose? Doesn't it seem like americans are a bit too sensitive when it comes to these few short lines?
just a thought
-MDW-




posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 11:40 AM
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In a way I agree with you, but I think calling it "brainwashing" might a little strong. That's all dependent on your perception of America though. If you think that America is a great nation (at least in concept if nothing else) then it's teaching. If you think our government is the modern day equivalent to the Nazi facism, then it's brainwashing. By the same token, you can look at all marketing attempts as minor brainwashing. You can even look at standing up for your beliefs as attempting to brainwash those around you. Essentially, all of this boils down to whether trying to make someone believe something is a good thing or not.

Personally, I think the pledge is a good thing. Whatever may be wrong with our government, it could still be a lot worse. We seem to forget that quite frequently. But no matter where you live, every government wants you to think that it's the best government. They will start when someone is young, because that's when people are most impressionable. As the person grows they can form their own opinions, and in the US that's encouraged in most circles. In the schools I went to, we stopped saying the pledge about 6th grade. Not for any lack of political fervor, not because it said "under God," just because there were other things to worry about.

I do think people are too sensitive about the pledge, but I'm not sure exactly how you mean it so I can't directly say I agree with you or not. Most likely I think they are in the opposite manner of how you mean it. I find it upsetting that so many people are trying to get the pledge taken out of schools, or are trying to remove the "under God" part from it. I understand the separation of Church and State, but I don't think it's that large of a part of the school day to have much affect on a student. If someone doesn't want to say it for religious reasons, that's their right under the constitution. During my school years we had several students who didn't say the pledge, and we didn't treat them any better or any worse then everyone else.

From a political standpoint, the pledge doesn't mention any type of strict political belief other than allegiance to the US. It doesn't say I will serve Bush, it doesn't say anything about Republicans/Democrats, Liberals/Conservatives, Socialists/Capitalists. It's just saying "I'm going to do what I can to help out this country." Quite frankly I think that's a damned good think this country needs more of. Help it out by arguing one way or another. Help it out by trying to accomplish something, even if it's not what I want or what the next guy/girl wants.

That's my opinion; sorry for the rant



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 12:04 PM
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The Pledge and it's recitation in US schools have an interesting history.

It was written in the 1880's by a Christian Socialist utopian, Francis Bellamy.

It started to be recited in US schools in the twenties and thirties, urged along by Americans who saw fascism as the wave of the future, and envied the "unity" and dedication to the State displayed in fascist countries.

In 1954 it was modified, with the words "under God" added to differentiate the US from "Godless" communism.

Is it brainwashing? Maybe - to a very lame & limited degree.
I'm not sure how convinced the grade school students who mumble through it every day really are...

[edit on 26-4-2005 by xmotex]



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 01:22 PM
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Its brainwashing to those that are susceptible to brain washing.
For most kids its really just a chore they are forced to do and most of them have no feeling at all behind this pledge.

Its shallow like so many American laws and customs.
We have raging debates about honoring the flag and reciting religious poems in schools, while we have 3 Million people in prison and 7 million more under the thumb of the police state.

The time it takes to recite the pledge should be take to explain the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
12 seconds x 180 days x 12 years = 7.2 hours of class time more or less.

To all the fools who argue that "under god" signifies that our rights are god given, explain how the President can nullify the Constituition and the Bill of Rights during National Emergency.
Is the President god? How can he give and take away rights if they are handed down by god?
We live in a nation where the students are being encourage to believe that freedom and civil liberties should be limited.

Quote the current President of the United States: "there should be limits to freedom"



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 01:44 PM
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Well, i don't read it or said it, i just put my hand by my heart and stand there till it is over, like the 99.5 percent of my entire class lol



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 06:26 AM
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Even if you don't actually say the pledge, it is still permanently engraved in your memory, and it will affect the way that you think. That is how i see it.



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 06:34 AM
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I don't consider it brainwashing, more like conditioning.

ulshadow mentioned that he/she stands there with hand on heart pretty much going through the motions.

What happens if you don't go through the motions and just stand there not saying a word with your hands by your sides?

I wonder how many adults just go through the motions?



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 06:58 AM
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Originally posted by Koka
I don't consider it brainwashing, more like conditioning.

ulshadow mentioned that he/she stands there with hand on heart pretty much going through the motions.

What happens if you don't go through the motions and just stand there not saying a word with your hands by your sides?

I wonder how many adults just go through the motions?


i don't know but in my class the only people who said the pledge of allegiance is my teacher, the rest of the students don't even bother lol



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 03:32 PM
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I have rewritt’n my response here multiple times, for lack of be’n able ta feel that I have gott'n my point accross. Not that I want anyone ta change the way they act, or think. I just want ta state my point of view. However, it is hard ta not preach when it is something that ya feel so strong about.

Fur those who "...go through the motions":
When a flag is carried in front of ya do you not stand up and uncover?
When you see the flag the highest at the Olympics, are you not proud?
When you hear the "Pledge of Allegiance" are you really that ungrateful for all that has been GIVEN to us?

I do say the "Pledge of Allegiance" at least once a week through my activates. I would guess that if ya are a Den Mother/Father, have a boy/girl in scouts, youth groups, etc., ya would be at least hearing it that often. However, that's not where I hear it. Nor is it because I belong to the Odd fellows, Elks, FVW, any Masonic Affiliations, or other Lodges that recites it before each meet’n. I don't wake to reveille everyday, nor do I watch as the flag is folded every night, so that it is not like a soldier that is left behind. I do it out of RESPECT, ‘n yes, I do rise when the flag is in procession in a parade. I try to be a hic', I don't comb my hair as much as I should, ‘n always wear a hat, unless... there is a flag in front of me. I'm not Old, merely 34. However, being older would definitely give me an excuse to have respect. I'm betting your grandfather would do these things, and if you don't have one... maybe that's why you don't (but should) see the significance.

The American Creed, states... “I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it, to support its Constitution, to obey its laws, to respect its flag, and to defend it against all enemies.”

I said "...all that has been GIVEN to us?", and I sincerely mean it. Tell me what you have done to ensure our freedom? Tell me what sacrifices ya have made so that this country (or any other) may be stronger? Oh ya voted, I hope ya didn't hurt yourself. YES, Given to us! Those of the American Revolution can say that they TOOK it, and those of the Civil war can say that they TOOK it too. But who did they GIVE it to? They died so that we could be free. What are we doing with such a gift? Anyways, back to the topic...
I guess I have been brainwash’d... But, it was because of what the people of our country have done, NOT because I said the "Pledge of Allegiance" one to many times.



"...all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...."

Is a man who doesn't believe in a Supreme Being have more unalienable rights, then one that does, or visa-versa. Are we to supplement one symbol for another, ‘n at what cost? To remove the words "Under God" leaves a void. A void that could symbolize that the Atheists beliefs are more supported. However, the word GOD is a universal word that encompasses all beliefs. God can be just as easily interchanged with Big Bang, Allah, Jesus, Buddah, harry krishna, Zeuss, feakin Hendrix...whoever. (Thanks SportyMB)

Definition of God
1.b) The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2.) A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
(Thanks again SportyMB)

Now, The Deceleration of Independence does mention... "...of Nature's God entitle them...", "...endowed by their Creator ...", The Star-Spangled Banner was officially made the national anthem by Congress in 1931, although it already had been adopted as such by the army and the navy. It's last verse
"O thus be it ever when free-men shall stand
Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation;
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: “In God is our trust!”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!"

I’m wonder’n if because these documents reference to a GOD we should either mutilate, or destroy them.
I fear that I joke about it now, but in the upcom’n years it will be suggested.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by xmotex
The Pledge and it's recitation in US schools have an interesting history.

It was written in the 1880's by a Christian Socialist utopian, Francis Bellamy.

It started to be recited in US schools in the twenties and thirties, urged along by Americans who saw fascism as the wave of the future, and envied the "unity" and dedication to the State displayed in fascist countries.

In 1954 it was modified, with the words "under God" added to differentiate the US from "Godless" communism.

Is it brainwashing? Maybe - to a very lame & limited degree.
I'm not sure how convinced the grade school students who mumble through it every day really are...




Comment: It is strange how history is rewritten continuously. It is not that US children were imitating the Hitler salute, but the opposite. While we continue to aspire to being the most free nation around the world, little embarrassments such as this really get you, don't they?



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 06:07 PM
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Brainwashing??? What you mean I have learned things that have a deeper prepose that I cant see or understand that will effect my actions in a way that the higher in power will gain from? No way kid, I think for myself thanks.

Thinking...............

I have changed my ideas and values over time. What I once thought as truth is now just silly. How did that happen? Is there some deep rooted stuff in my head that is controling my ideas? Is it that as I start questioning what Ive learned or better yet been told that Im changing things around. Would I say Im unbrainwashing then?

Thinking..............

Hey did I think of that brainwashing thing on my own or did I read it somewhere? Was I just brainwashed into thinking about brainwashing? If I say brianwashing a thousand time over will it be more real and thus true Ive been brainwashed?

Thinking.............

Brainwashing whats that?



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 07:50 AM
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Comment: It is strange how history is rewritten continuously. It is not that US children were imitating the Hitler salute, but the opposite. While we continue to aspire to being the most free nation around the world, little embarrassments such as this really get you, don't they?

Thanks man, i was begining to think that i was the only person who thought along these lines. As much attention as people pay to "under god" they should reevaluate the purpose of the pledge as a whole. I say throw the whole thing out. Or atleast shed some light on its nature.



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 08:27 AM
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I'm a liberal and i am not happy with the current administration. That being said, The pledge of Allegiance is an exercise to honor your country that HAS GIVEN US MANY BLESSINGS throughout the centuries.

I'm surprised those of you who just stand there now while pretending to recite this arent labeled "terrorists". By todays standards, you are.

I still look at an American flag with respect. I see a US serviceman with respect. Our national Anthem is sacred to me. When this administration is GONE, grant it, i will be the first to wear RED WHITE and BLUE again.

Have respect for your country. You dont have to have respect for the potus in office who stole the presidency. This is still your land, and you should be proud of it- and thank goodness there's hope that in 2008 someone else can take over and unite the nation once again.(if thats possible) If not, the lesser of the evils will do just fine.

I get the feeling that you people dont like the allegiance just because you feel why should i say something i dont want to say.
You should say it. Its a tribute to your country and the land you live in.
EVERY OTHER COUNTRY has a tribute such as this also.
Its not weird or unfair to participate. Its customary and a beautiful thing.
Be proud to be an American. Just dont be arrogant about it.



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 08:52 AM
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Dg you got my vote for this month I think your post just summarized very good.

I feel also that the pledge of allegiance has become more important and powerful than our own Anthem.

Pity.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 09:58 PM
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There are some who believe the Pledge should not be said at all. I tend to agree...it starts "I pledge allegiance TO THE FLAG...."

You should give your allegiance to your country, not to the flag, and certainly not to the government. So actually the whole "under God" thing tends to be a bit irrelevant.

What do you guys think?



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 10:15 PM
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Saying the Pledge in school right now is little more than giving structure to the day. It signifies the beginning. Some people take it seriously, some people go through the motions.

As for it's history, just because it was made by facists doesn't mean that's what it stands for TODAY. The people of America who are living and breathing decide what the pledge means, not some guy who lived almost a century ago. The nature of the Pledge is what is in the hearts of the people reciting it, and that nature is one of modern values. And whoop-dee-doo, it has the same hand motion as Hitler. That's one of those nitpicks you latch onto when you have nothing of real substance. There's only so many ways you can hold your hand, there's going to be alot of overlap. Maybe try finding something actually wrong with it, instead of shock value.

OMG WTF TEH KIDS ARE TEH HITLER!!!11



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 10:21 PM
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I never liked saying the pledge of alleigance, it struck me as kind of spooky. However, I asked a teacher one day what the deal was with it, and he said it's completely voluntary and if I didn't want to say it I didn't have to. That made me feel a lot better about it, and I started actually saying it after that. If it was forced upon me, that would be one thing, but as long as its voluntary, then I suppose it's not a bad thing. Some small children may be "brainwashed" but no more than they would be brainwashed by advertisements for toys or similar things they're exposed to ad nauseum.

-koji K.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 10:32 PM
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The Pledge and flag shoudl be replaced by Copies of the Consitution and Declaration of independence, students should take turns doing readings from the Federalist Papers Or deTocquville's book, or Paine's stuff, instead.



posted on May, 16 2005 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
The Pledge and flag shoudl be replaced by Copies of the Consitution and Declaration of independence, students should take turns doing readings from the Federalist Papers Or deTocquville's book, or Paine's stuff, instead.


Wow, can you imagine what would happen if children were given a thorough education in the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, etc.?

There'd be more people denouncing the Iraq war for starters.
There'd be more people calling for Bush's impeachment.



posted on May, 17 2005 @ 11:20 AM
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Yeah, i don't think that people are informed enough in general. So, who did research before protesting the war in iraq. People can be so opinionated yet so uninformed.




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