Update on Handcuffing of 5 Year old with Videos

The state should have taken custody of that little girl if that is the correct term for that little devil. The parent(s) as you can well see, have done a wonderful job of raising a girl that is out of control on a massive scale. It is nothing that a good switch from a stout tree couldn't cure. This is a classic case of sparing the rod from the child. The police should have put a muzzle on her also. I must commend the teachers for their pro. conduct in dealing with this little girl. The school should look into the parents and see if they are getting this girl the help she badly needs. Sad

Yeah, you have a good point Sporty and well worth contemplating. It looks to me like theres no Father in this young girls life...Im sure they will drag him in for the trial (just for show).

James, theres no excuse for hand-cuffing a little 5 year old baby....nothing she did warranted that. Nothing!! I do things my own way and Im sorry for even telling y'all about it.

Your not a parent, so your advice on disiplining kids is worth dog-s**t to me!! You got that??

One day, if your blessed with kids, you might see my POV. Special-needs kids can't be treated like criminals, especially 5 year olds!! If the childs parents and family are rotten, its up to the school to pick up the slack. Is that fair to the school?

Nope, but someone has to look out for this Baby and handcuffing her is not the waY!!! Im gonna leave it at that...you got your opinion and I got mine.

I wanna give others in here a chance to speak out.

Maximu§

[edit on 073030p://222 by LA_Maximus]

By the way, yes I have read the details on this situation. If the school is not allowed to touch the children, and yet if the teacher is unable to teach discipline to the kid then there's a course of action that all schools do take in cases such as this... first they talk seriously to the parents about the problem, and if parents do nothing and the problem persist, they exclude the child from the school so the parents have to find a new school for their kid. By the way, there are still special schools in this country for kids who are very problematic. The mother of this child also has her share of responsibility in this problem

And finally, what the hell does the police got anything to do with that??? Am I gonna call the police because my neighbor just stolen my hamburger at the neighborhood weekend BBQ? Am I gonna call the police because my 14 year-old son listens to metal music at full levels all day long and does'nt listen to me when I tell him to stop? Godd*mnit people, put your pants on and BEHAVE LIKE ADULTS! When you're in a dead-end situation with some people, try talk this out, or otherwise ask for the advice or help of other people around! Use your reason and communication skills instead of coercition and lending everyting in the hands of authorities.

[edit on 26/4/05 by Echtelion]

Originally posted by Echtelion
By the way, yes I have read the details on this situation. If the school is not allowed to touch the children, and yet if the teacher is unable to teach discipline to the kid then there's a course of action that all schools do take in cases such as this... first they talk seriously to the parents about the problem, and if parents do nothign and the problem persist, they excluded the child from the school so the parents have to find a new school for their kid. By the way, there are still special schools in this country for kids who are very problematic. The mother of this child also has her share of responsibility in this problem

And finally, what the hell does the police got anything to do with that??? Am I gonna call the police because my neighbor just stolen my hamburger at the neighborhood weekend BBQ? Am I gonna call the police because my 14 year-old son listens to metal music at full levels all day long and does'nt listen to me when i tell him to stop? Godd*mnit people, put your pants on and BEHAVE LIKE ADULTS! When you're in a dead-end situation with some people, try talk this out, or otherwise ask for the advice or help of other people around! Use your reason and communication skills instead of coercition and lending everyting in the hands of authorities.

What are talking about???? you're saying the teacher should be fired for handcuffing the kid....NEWS FLASH, the cop hanfcuffed her!!!

And this is not your friendly weekend BBQ or your son listening to heavy metal...ok?

If someone elses child hits you, attempts to hit you and defaces public property....and you have talked to the parents before but all attempts fail and no progress is made, than what do you do when it happens again?? huh? HUH?

Just sit there and try talking?
They've tried that but it don't work, so what do you do?

You Call the 5-0 on her little tail since the mom will not allow you to do anything about it.

[edit on 26/4/2005 by SportyMB]

this was an unfortunate incident. unfortunately it is not an isolated incident. i have many friends who work in daycare or teach grades 1 through 12. they all have many stories of kids running amuk. this is actualy more the norm than the exception nowdays. it is a trend that needs to be reversed. i will give odds that within 15 years she will likely end up charged for something serious. there is a way to save her though. and that way is through cousoling and DISAPLIN. if she needs special disiplin geared towords any problems she has then that is what she needs.

there have been comments about the camera. well you are right the school needed to use a camera to prove that they were trying to follow the correct procedures and did not hit the child. unfortunately this is now needed in todays lawsuit sick america. without a videio do not doubt that they would have been acused of phisical abuse as well as harming the child in question. yet another case of haveing to prove innocence. as we are guilty untill proven innocent.

many have stated that the kid should NEVER have been handcuffed. you do have a point. perhapse ALL SCHOOLS should have a doctor on site at all times. this would enable them to use seditives on a child that gets so far out of controll. do not forget that this would cost the schools a lot of money to do. the fact that the police had aparently been called to the child's home and threatened to use handcuffs, tells me that this is an ongoing issue with this child. even the mother can not controll her. i can not look into all of the problems that this child has. but by the looks of things she should live in a "asilem" where they can use medication to keep her under controll. this may just be a sign that the parrents need to disiplen the child. it is probably going to be very hard at this point to turn this child arround.

the first thing that parrents need to realize is that punishment is not "cruelty" it is needed to keep children undert controll and to insure that they understand that ruels and laws are to be obeyed. a child that is not propperly disaplened will not think much of any authority. they will be harmed by the lack of disaplin. we owe it to children to raise them in a stable home enviroment where both rewards for good behaviour and disaplen for bad behaveiour are metted out accordingly. how can you seriousely exopect a child that is alowed to get away with, (even literaly these days) murder, will be able to be a person that cares about others and will try to obey rules put in place for both their and others protection.

schools should be alowed to restrain and disiplen within just standards. will some be diciplened wrongfully? unfortunately yes it will happen unless evey single second of a child's life is on film for review, (and even then it will still happen). disiplen includeing spanking, are needed to teach children right from wrong and to remind them when they do cross the line. it would be wonderfull if it were not needed. though the only case i know of where disiplen was probably not needed was with jesus. even animals must be disiplened to teach them how to behave. a cat will tend to swat a misbehaveing kitten with claws retracted to acomplish this.

the police were shown to act with due concern for the child's welfare. restaints were needed to gain controll of this out of controll child. a seditive would probabl;y have been better but they do not have acess to that not being doctors. they only used what they had available to use. you will also note that they first warned the child to stop or that would be the outcome, they even reminded her that she was warned on another ocasion that they would do this. she still could have stopped and restraint would have been unessisary.

the parrents sould have to pay for the damage that their out of controll daughter caused, and should NOT be permitted to sue. unless they sue the government for not makeing a suitable enviroment available for this child's suposed special needs. if this child needed to be in a special program that is not the schools fault, that would lie somewhere between the government and the parrents, depending on circumstances behind everything.

now where was the mother when this was takeing place? she was at work. no father was mentioned so it seems that she is a single mother. they tried to get the parrent down to deal with the problem but she refused to leave work. this is not the school's or the cop's fault, but the mother's fault. my mother gave up a career to be home to be able to deal with problems i had in school. where is this child's father? why is there aparently no father involvement in this? this is one reason that we should not have children unless there is a stable marrage. this is also an example on how forceing both parrents to work has a severe negitive effect on children. THE MOTHER WAS TOO BUSY WORKING TO COME DEAL WITH "HER" CHILD. this in itself points out to where some of the problems arise from. the child should come first but comes in second to work.

this is just yet another sign of the decline of our culture. children should be the MOST important thing to parrents. but sadly work and the parrents righjts take presidence. i am not saying that mothers should be forced to stay home, but one parrent should have that responsibility. our children should be raised by parrents and not daycare and schools. especialy when such institutions have their hands tied behind their backs in regaurds to disaplin.

the school, the police should not be blaimed for things that they have no way of preventing. the parrents need to take some blaim, society in general also shares blaim in this with the degridation of our moral standards,and laws. we need to step back and reintroduce propper diciplen for children, in this way we could actualy avert many problems that aries because of the lack.

No wonder Europe thinks we're Insane!!

They watch on TV as American 10 year olds are arrested for bullying and 5 year olds are lead away in handcuffs for tantrums. Jesus, they must think we went over the deep end..and they may be right!!

Americas gone way, way too far in regards to arresting and incarcerating people. Our prisons are full, our police are too few...yet the cops had the time to go cuff a 5 year old.....thats crazy!

Max

Yeah, Europe must really think we are cxrazy, because in Europe they are still allowed to physically discipline their children.

I am sick of hearing about ADD and ADHD.... when I was young they called it MISBEHAVING. Oh yeah, and there is a cure for ADD and ADHD... it is called a spanking!

Originally posted by Echtelion
Just as the other poster said, this jsut shows how this civilization is crumbling. When stupid people like taht are allowed to become teachers and go as LOW as handcuffing a little girl it's a sign of how the values and culture that makes this society so powerful and harmonized are deteriorating to the point of barbarism!

Western civilisation has always been barbaric and primitive.

as posted by Echtelion
Use your reason and communication skills instead of coercition and lending everyting in the hands of authorities.

Yeah, right, I hear ya.
Please tell me where reason and communication skills come into play here, Echtelion:

The videotape shows the girl defying an assistant principal and another school staff member as she tore items off walls and swung at the educators.

Later, it shows the girl in the assistant principal's office tearing items off a bulletin board, climbing on a table and swinging at the assistant principal numerous times.

Link provided in my last post on Page 2.

I hear ya, but IMHO, your talking a good line and thats it. Apparently you are not a teacher or planning on being one?
Having some experience with this first hand, allow me to explain to you that the school system has NO way to deal with these situations in the manner you so speak of when applied to the this particular case.
If this had been 20 years ago, that child would have been spanked and spanked by either the teacher or someone in administration [principal or asst. principal]. Then the parents would have been called. The problem back then would have been solved with no police involvement at all. Today, and in this applied situation, the child was in what is termed an "uncontrolled rage." The school system has its hands tied, as does the teacher. In this applied case, with the child still in rage even after going to the principal's office, the correct course of action was taken.


And here:

Am I gonna call the police because my neighbor just stolen my hamburger at the neighborhood weekend BBQ? Am I gonna call the police because my 14 year-old son listens to metal music at full levels all day long and does'nt listen to me when I tell him to stop?

Your comparing apples and oranges.
Why?
Cause in your second example, it is your child in YOUR home, not in school. And if it happened in school, whatever was used to play the "metal music" would have been taken away till the end of school and YOUR son went home with it. Your first example is so far fetched and out of this applied situation, that it can hardly be called a related example.

Godd*mnit people, put your pants on and BEHAVE LIKE ADULTS! When you're in a dead-end situation with some people, try talk this out, or otherwise ask for the advice or help of other people around!

Back to square one again, eh?
Seems to me that the teacher did the right thing by following her 'chain of command.' She could do nothing with the "uncontrolled rage" this child was experiencing so she elevated it to the administration. They could do nothing with the "uncontrolled rage" child. Obviously unmentioned is that there were repeated attempts to calm the child, to NO avail. The next course of elevated action was to seek public enforcement and contact the parent. Read all the articles on this and perhaps or perhaps not you will understand the gravity of the situation. Again, attempts were made to calm the child. I suppose if this child had been in one of your classes, you would have done what when all your attempts to "reason" and use your "communication skills" had failed?






seekerof

Its true, Seekerof. Times have changed. 20 years ago this child would have been begging for mercy while the parents drove in and beat the you know what out of her. Not anymore. This is now abuse and we cant have that.
What teacher wants a lawsuit on their hands?

Its not like it used to be. In the long run i wonder what impression this leaves a 5 year old with? Getting hauled off to jail....I suppose there will be a study on the long term effects of it soon enough....

Parents, have bail money handy. I would have cost my parents a fortune

Originally posted by SportyMB

Originally posted by Echtelion
By the way, yes I have read the details on this situation. If the school is not allowed to touch the children, and yet if the teacher is unable to teach discipline to the kid then there's a course of action that all schools do take in cases such as this... first they talk seriously to the parents about the problem, and if parents do nothign and the problem persist, they excluded the child from the school so the parents have to find a new school for their kid. By the way, there are still special schools in this country for kids who are very problematic. The mother of this child also has her share of responsibility in this problem

And finally, what the hell does the police got anything to do with that??? Am I gonna call the police because my neighbor just stolen my hamburger at the neighborhood weekend BBQ? Am I gonna call the police because my 14 year-old son listens to metal music at full levels all day long and does'nt listen to me when i tell him to stop? Godd*mnit people, put your pants on and BEHAVE LIKE ADULTS! When you're in a dead-end situation with some people, try talk this out, or otherwise ask for the advice or help of other people around! Use your reason and communication skills instead of coercition and lending everyting in the hands of authorities.

What are talking about???? you're saying the teacher should be fired for handcuffing the kid....NEWS FLASH, the cop hanfcuffed her!!!

And this is not your friendly weekend BBQ or your son listening to heavy metal...ok?

If someone elses child hits you, attempts to hit you and defaces public property....and you have talked to the parents before but all attempts fail and no progress is made, than what do you do when it happens again?? huh? HUH?

Just sit there and try talking?
They've tried that but it don't work, so what do you do?

You Call the 5-0 on her little tail since the mom will not allow you to do anything about it.

[edit on 26/4/2005 by SportyMB]

You're joking, right? Yeah, true... we as adults, must use all available security forces to protect ourselves from 5 years old little girls that are hitting our thighs with their powerful punches and keep them from the destruction of valuable public property (i.e. jelly beans). Riiiiight!

Those EVIL little childrens... Look at them running around and doing crazy stuff with their toys! Patriot Act 3 should remove all their remaining rights and liberties and out them in boot camp as soon as they're able to talk!
No more candies for them until they kill muslims without asking questions!

Communicational skills? I dunno, since it's a little kid that you've deprived from her candies and acting crazy because of that, you just sing her a song... of give her a toy she might like... and if you're really out of solutions, then you should know that there are usually professionals in schools (educational psychologists) that are JUST THERE for the problematic cases! Never heard of them? Huh?? Huh? HUH??? HUH? HHUUUUHHHUh huHHUH!?!?!?

Also, Sporty, when I wrote about these people that should stay away from childrens, I was refering to people like you... unless you finally open your mind and just realize what a children is.

And it's the little girl who was handcuffed by the cops, not the teacher. I don't know what YOU are talking about!!!

5-year-old cuffed, arrested in Florida.

Just as Maximus said, no wonder why Europe thinks Americans are insane!

[edit on 26/4/05 by Echtelion]

[edit on 27/4/05 by Echtelion]

[edit on 27/4/05 by Echtelion]

Wow...three pages of "This is an outrage!!" Or "Good for the cops!"..and not a single mention of the important thing...the other kids..

What are THEY learning from this? All of the other kids in her class and any who happened to go by the office at that time? What do they take away from this? How to act like an ahole101.

Yes, I have kids. 8 and 15. I had a huge problem with the 8 year old last year at school. He would cry and throw a fit when mom dropped him off. She couldnt leave him. I was called once because a field trip was being delayed on account of him. What did I do? After all the talking..after all the meetings?..I walked up there and cracked him one. Not a backhand that would knock him out..but enough to get his attention. Right in front of the teachers and principal. They actually stepped back when I started walkin up. Theres a time when the talking stops. Kids test boundaries. He found out right where the line was that day. He has yet to cross it since then.

I think the kids in that classroom have a right to get an uninterupted education. Animals like that little brat need to go somewhere else. Boot camp would be a good start.

Also, IMHO, ADHD and ADD are nothing more than undisciplined kids. Its nothing more than the result of not hittin a kid when they need it. If you do it when they are young, they will get the message. When I was raised it went like this. If it was big trouble, I would bet bent over the knee. That lasted for a while. But when the trouble started from my mouth, I got it across the face. Trust me..it works! Parents that wont do that wind up with the "ADD" kids. Its because the kids are animals with no understanding of boundaries.

All the psychologists will tell the parents what ever they want to hear. They are being paid by the school system. It is a benefit to them to label these kids as mentally ill. Its job security. The schools NEED them. Well, BAH! Is the parents took care of business at home, made these kids do chores and have responsibilties, if there were consequences (both GOOD and bad), this problem would be over with.

Of course there will be a screwed up kid here and there, but nothing like the number you see today. Thank the drug companies and "shrinks" for that. Thank a lazy, scared parent for that.

Yes they are evil, they latch on and suck the life out of you.

Anyways, you do realize that a teacher can't do anything. What? They suppose to wait till she kills herself or some other kid? No, can't do anything cause then they are sued. You people saying that the teach or whoever should be fired are WHY the cops were called, because people like you would rather sue sue sue and place the blame on everything but the ones responsible. If a teacher can be fired for flunking students who cheat, if a kid can sue to graduate on time instead of getting the mediocer grades required, if "holding a kid tightly" well send you to jail for years on assault and battery AND child abuse. This is why they need to bring the belt/paddle/switch back.

Originally posted by Vegemite
I think y'all are being a little to harsh on kids. I remember when I was a kid. I was crazy out of control and dangerous. But then my mother lousy stupid mother spanked me at home. I was still crazy but when out in public my ma would say "You wanna be spanked in fronna all these people!?" And I would settle down until we got home.

We were all crazy one time in our lives

[edit on 26-4-2005 by Vegemite]

to this day my mother will hit me with just about anything when i get her mad or if i do something when she told me not to. im 22 but her excuse is that no matter how old i get she is still my mother and thats true the oldest of my siblings being 35 still gets hit by my mom ive been hit with remote controls shoes belts cords pans hands feet extension cords coat hangers twigs just to name a few slaped across the mouth the reason i dont smoke now is not because i dont want to its because if my mom would catch me smoking she would slap the cancer lazed saliva out of my mouth and thats why ladies and gents i dont smoke not cause a pack of cigs is almost 4 dollas but because of dear old mom 60 percent of the time i deserve everything i get as in punishment.

Woah I never saw this video!!!
This is SO retarded!!!!!

Why doesn't the woman just grab the kid and YELL at her and get angry???
This is so American, such things would never happen in the netherlands.
Over here a kid that acts like this is YELLED at, because the kid needs to learn such behavior makes people angry.

Calling the police when a little kid is being a pain, hilarious!

"We are not allowed to touch the kid so let's let her ruin the classroom!"

What a JOKE.


How many policemen are needed to take down a little kid anyways.
Bah, the kid can't help it that her caretakers are retarded enough to let her do all that.

That woman should have been cuffed.

I hope this thread doesn't get closed too...

It seems to be going in the exact same direction.

In my thread I tried to get people to talk about solutions that weren't knee-jerk, I wanted to try and get some ideas on the table about ways for society to deal with out of control kids. Talking about the mother spending her money on crack, or calling her trash, that doesn't help anybody. All it does is make y'all feel better about yourself.

I think the mother appears unfit, but I don't want the state being a babysitter/prison warden for all those kids with crappy parents - that would be incredibly inefficient because it seems most parents are crappy these days. There are some good parents, and they largely have good kids.

Of course there's always abominations, where a loving, thoughtful home produces a Dahmer or whatever, but those instances are rare.

Bottom line, most parents are lazy. They don't talk to their kids except to scream. They don't watch over their kids. They don't teach their kids anything, they leave it all up to the school. Most parents don't read to their kids anymore. Hell, many parents can't read.

It's a societal issue, and it needs to be dealt with if we want to have any sort of society left.

I for one wouldn't mind watching it all crumble. I'd toast the rubble and go on about my solitary existence. But for all you who rely on and desire a societal framework, I suggest you do something to fix what's going on, or resign yourself to watch it fall. It's leaning over, and most people are too absorbed in their own pseudo-lives (American Idol, drinks at the bar, gossip, video games) to do anything about it, or even notice it for the most part.

It's hard being a parent in this day and age, that's for sure. People need to stop fooling themselves on that account. Also, people REALLY need to take some responsibility for their actions, and for the actions of their children. Raising a kid is probably the single most important thing anyone can do, so put some damn effort into it!

Originally posted by SportyMB
I know when I was little I had my little fits

The little girl had more than just 'little fits'. She was trying to beat
up the teachers. She tore apart at least one room. She ripped
things off the walls. She hammered upon the thermostat. She
was repeatedly climbing on top of furniture and 'giving attitude'.

Hey ... they handcuffed her for the safety of the teachers AND
for the little girl's own safety. She easily could have hurt herself.
Did you all see her repeatedly climbing on the table, turning her
back to the teacher and giving attitude?

The handcuffs were necessary for the safety of those around her
and for her own safety.

The kid needs to be tested for food allergies which could have
triggered this. She needs a complete physical and mental health
check up .. perhaps observation in a mental health facility for a
month of 'in house' observation. The family needs to be checked
out to see what emotional problems are running around with them.

In this case - handcuffs were the safest and smartest thing to do
for the school workers AND for the little girl herself.

DOUBLE AMEN spliff 4020 !!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
theres no excuse for hand-cuffing a little 5 year
old baby....nothing she did warranted that. Nothing!!

5 years old is not a 'baby'.

She is old enough to understand what she is doing is wrong.
And yes there is a very good excuse ... handcuffing was for
the safety of those around her that she was beating upon
AND for her own safety. She easily could have hurt herself
as she repeatedly climbed the furniture, ripped things off
the walls (which had staples and tacks in them) and beat
upon the thermostat (glass, sharp broken plastic edges, mercury??).

I am a mom. If someone showed me video of my child acting that
way, I'd first try to find out if something at the school triggered the
behavior. Then I'd get to our pediatrician FAST and have physical
and mental health tests conducted .... blood chem tests, everything.
I'd do this for the safety of my child, and the safety of those who
are around her.

Originally posted by Jakko
Woah I never saw this video!!!
This is SO retarded!!!!!

Why doesn't the woman just grab the kid and YELL at her and get angry???
This is so American, such things would never happen in the netherlands.
Over here a kid that acts like this is YELLED at, because the kid needs to learn such behavior makes people angry.
Calling the police when a little kid is being a pain, hilarious!
"We are not allowed to touch the kid so let's let her ruin the classroom!"
What a JOKE.
How many policemen are needed to take down a little kid anyways.
Bah, the kid can't help it that her caretakers are retarded enough to let her do all that.
That woman should have been cuffed.

well you must keep in mind that in canada and the states punishing a child is a form of abuse. because there have been cases of real abuse laws were brought in to protect the children from such cruelties.

there was a case in ontario a few years back wherean american was seen at a truch stop phisicaly abuseing his young daughter by spanking her. he was arrested and brought to trial when someone saw this abuse and called the cops. it came out at the trial just why he was "abuseing his child. she had PURPOSELY slammed her younger brothe's arm in a car door. (i believe that he got off after this came out). point is abuseing a child is illigal as it will cause self estemm problems, and possible mental problems as they deal with said abuse. not to mention of course phisical and mental ingeries that will scar them for life.

spankeing=phisical abuse so you can't do it. yelling=mental abuse. even sending a child to their rooms (even though quite a few kids have tvs, vidieo games, computers, toys ct. in their rooms),is a form of abuse. don't even considder takeing away nourishment by sending them to bed without supper, also abuse.

we even have laws to protect children from harsh court sentanceing. a child can even kill and get away with only light punishment. lesser crimes they are given a slap on the wrist. children are taught their rights and protections as well so that they will not suffer. kids can call and have parrents charged for abuse even if it is just getting even for some percieved wrong done to them. then the parrents have to try to prove themselves innocent. untill then all kids are removed to protect them from harm. i know kids that have done this just to get even, it does happen probably quite frequently. kids have even blackmailed their parrents with it.

so you see the teacher could not yell, restrain, or God forbid hit the kid.the fact that there was a need to vidieo tape the incident just shows how you have to protect yourself from possible prosicution and lawsuits. you can only try to reason with a child in a level tone. this is why they had to "evacuate" the other kids for their protection as nothing could be done to restrain or disiplen the child. so they had to call in the cops to try to deal with it. it didn't help that the mother was too busy working to go and help out. but in all honesty it looks like she was unable to controll the kid herself and had the cops do the same type of thing at home (what a waist of police time).

this is why our children are turning into uncontrollable beasts. everyones hands are legaly tied. i am sure you have seen the complaints about the police handcuffing her. this is what we have to deal with now. all these problems because it is cruel and damageing to disaplen our children. it is no joke those teachers came close to breaking the law just by phisicaly takeing her down from the table. it is a scary situation the way that our hands are tied. and even still it looks like the mother will sue for the "harm" her child recieved by being placed in handcuffs.

all of this thanks to the typical north american over reacting to problems. overreacting that actualy is more harmfull than it prevents.