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Equal rights for women doesn't seem to be working.

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posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 01:06 PM
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"I recently had a discussion with a counselor, and she said that she has seen MANY times, the man do much of what the woman wanted, but the woman does NOTHING that the man wanted."

And herein lies the salient point of the thread. Women's Liberation has created an abusive sub-class of females that are just as bad as that abusive sub-class of males that Byrd points out got the legislation they deserved a while back.

However, this is not the 50's and 60's anymore, McFly. The pendulum has swung all the way in the other direction, where we now have women who claim equality, but contribute zilch sans complaints. When dear, multi-tasking, double-jobbing, over-stressing hubby calls them on it, they scream foul! and run to hide behind those same laws created to deter real jerks. They even can twist those same laws into a new means of control (I know, it almost happened to me) because police are now programmed to protect poor, defenseless (yeah right) women, and innocent children from big, bad, mean, abusive husbands.

Meanwhile, the fallout from single parent families and latch-key kids is rearing a new crop of mis- or un-guided boys that are ripe for the plucking. Thank God I am not growing up in this day and age.

godservant, bless you for having the courage to start this thread and shoulder the fallout.






posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 01:30 PM
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Im all for equal rights, but then i want equal responsibility aswell. If conscription comes in, women should be put in the front line. If a women hits me i can hit her back without being arrested and put in jail. In the work place women wanted to be treated equal aswell, well go work on a construction site, or become a miner.
Women want the same rights men have but not the responsibility that comes with it.
Geez i would love to be the one staying at home everyday, my job is to cook clean and take care of the kids. I dont have to wake up 6 every morning to go to a worksite to work my ass off untill 5. Then when i get home uve got the women bitching about her day to you, how "jenny" from around the corner looked at her funny at the super market, so now there is a bitchy rival i have to hear about for the next 6 months.

Dam i wish i lived in the 40's, if the women ever talked to much u just give them a back hand. THen they say sorry to you for bringing it apon themselfs.....those were the good ol days.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 02:22 PM
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For a long time, I have not believed the equal rights ideas/laws were exactly equal.
If people really believe in Equal rights shoulnt people be treated exactly the same way.
example:Just today at school, a girl walked up to a Guy I know and kicked him, in the balls ,with those pointed heels, He had to have Ice on his balls.
(sorry if this is a bit crude,but I am telling this in the best fashin possible)
She did this becouse She heard him say she was kinda ugly. He slapped her gently on the sholder and said what the **** was that for.
He was suspended for 3 days ,she was givin a pat on the back.

My concerns
Alimony:Most divourve courts force men to pay alimoney sometimes even if the wife makes more then the man does,Women never have to pay the man even if they cheated.

Child custody:A enourmous gap exisits between Women getting custody and men getting custody ,even if the man is a better parent.

Reverse sexism:An incident I read about:Randomly 5 colledge female students put names of several male students on a flyer that said these men could be rapists, theses men had done nothing wrong.
The men suid















and lost


Sex:I have seen women useing sex in a relationship to control perfectly good men and get everything they want even if it is not financially possible.


Voilence agienst women adds
oes anyone care about voilence with everyone? Besides me?

Okay thankyou for reading my points.
Sorry about spelling
for the record I am 14
and my best friend since age 4 has been a woman.

I hope we can someday have a society were it is equal not men>women
Women>men

Maninblack



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 02:35 PM
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THey also have a habit of burning the wives when they decide they don't like them.....

muzzleflash,

if you had just said people, instead of men this women that.....
I don't wear makeup, buy clothes, or nice pretty for the house...don't even own a good vacuum cleaner and the one I have was given to me. my husband and me have a joint banking account....I could stare at the bankbook all day, and still would be clueless as to how much is in the bank, might be somethere there, maybe not...so, I don't use the account, unless I ask for permission first. He records nothing in it...does his banking over the internet and well, I have no idea what the heck the password and logon is that he set it up with... so I just don't bother. If this isn't an indication that he doesn't want me spending his money, well I don't know what would be.

Gee, I could do SOMETHING.....if I had a way of working myself, but well, I'm not capable now to walk the distancethat would be required..and definately don't have the money to pay for the transportation...well, that's life.

To me, it's up to each person what they wish to do, or to share with each other. My husband worked, he made the money, so well, if he doesn't decide to share......I guess that is his perogative, isn't it? But, then he can't limit me as to what I decide to do either.....If I find a job, who is he to say I should quit? Or, if he doesn't like the way the house looks, well, he has two feet and two hands and gets around alot better than me, he has a car and money, so if there is something needed to do it, he is in a much better position than me. If he choses not to, well, I just make do I guess.

YA, it would be nice if we could get together on this and work together, but well, doesn't seem to be happening, does it? TO suggest that all this should be his decision, because that is how our ancestors decided it, is wrong! Each person, if faced with a situation that is not acceptable to them, should have the freedom and liberty to decide what action they should take to change that situation to something more acceptable. It's just that most married couples manage to discuss the situation sanely and make concessions with each other if necessary and work together for the solution.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 04:16 PM
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While women's rights, as outlined by Byrd, have gone a long way to help the situation of women in this country, I believe in the home, one's does what needs to be done to create a good relationship. I don't mean accepting abuse or anything like that.
I mean it is a give and take, co-leader. If it fits the old-fasioned traditional marriage, that's fine. But there are many variations of this. In some the man is dominant, in some the woman, in some it depends on what is going on.

I think the major reason relationships fail is people do not respect each other. People do not want to sacrifice ANYthing for each other. People are selfish and greedy. People don't want to work together to make their relationship uniques and strong.
And, I don't think marriage is always necessary, I have lived with my 'husband' for many years. We have no children and don't see the need to involve the government in our relationship.

Good topic, btw!



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 04:41 PM
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My belief is that we have our roles in marriage. The main provider, and the house chief. For example, in our marriage, I am the only one working. I pay the bills, put food on the table, and clothes on everyone's back. My wife, cooks, cleans, and watches the children. She takes care of most of the housework. If something needs to be fixed, I fix it. I guess you can say we have a very 'traditional' marriage. But it works, We got married young, and have been married for 11 years now.

One factor that I truly believe is causing so many divorces, is the need for both parents to work to support a family. This just isn't right. The kids are shoved into daycare, and the parents are constinently fighting over paying bills, who's turn is it to cook or clean,.etc. If the wife is the bread-winner of the family, then the husband should be at home doing most of the housework and taking care of the children, and vice versa. Everyone in a family has their roles to play.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by godservantPlease don't come down on me like I am evil. Instead, give a different view on why there is such an EXTREME difference in divorce rates between the two types of cultures.

It's relatively simple:
In the other cultures you cite, women were kept relatively uneducated, were not allowed to own property, and had a huge social consequence for divorce or adultery (they may be killed. The man, however, will not have the same penalty.) And as others have pointed out, their spouses were chosen for them by others and they could not refuse.

They could not leave, no matter how bad it was.

And let me also point out that although divorce rates are very low, the number of men who keep mistresses on the side is very high.

Would YOU like to be married and in a situation where it was okay for your wife to have as many lovers as she liked... but you could be stoned to death if you were found with another woman? That is still the fate of many women in these "no divorce" societies today.

Let me take you back to a time when MEN were in this kind of position -- a young man who was born poor had no choice but to sell himself to a patron (bondservant) for a long contract. Of course, the choice was not always his. Quite often the parents would sell their children into servitude when they were still very small (an exact analogy here, because in many cultures women... girls, really... are married shortly after their first menses (age 13 or so) and they might be married to full adult males.)

Now, imagine you were suddenly a bondservant to a very intelligent and very dominant man who had no interest in letting you have your say or in educating you beyond grade school. If you ran away, someone would bring you back. Master would not allow you to speak or debate with him, particularly on matters that educated men spoke of. When Master and his friends talked science or business or politics or news, you would have to leave the room and go off to your bedroom so you wouldn't annoy Master and his friends.

Yes, that's the way male bondservants were treated. And there was more.

You could not own or manage your own money. You didn't even own the clothes on your back. Master could beat you. If you created anything (music, art, jewelry, etc) your master owned that.

Now -- that's the way that the job market was back in the 1700's for men. Almost everyone was employed (the "no divorce" clause) and those who went to work for one man/company generally worked until they were too ill/old to continue or until they died.

Now... compare that to today's jobs, if you will. There's a lot of options, if one job doesn't work out or doesn't give you enough advancement or if you have a horrible boss -- you are free to leave. You can pursue your dream job instead of the job your family insisted you go into (another parallel with those marriages.)

Now... would YOUR ideal job situation be that of a bondservant of the 1700's, sold to a lordling by your family and unable to escape OR would you rather have a job in today's market?

Who has the best potential for happiness?

Who has the most potential for "being all they could be"?

Who has the most potential to contribute something to humanity?


That's the EXACT analogy to the women in those cultures. The bondservant model is all they know. Do you really think they are as happy as Gaz' wife and all the wives here who are equal partners and equal wage earners with their spouses?

[edit on 26-4-2005 by Byrd]



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 06:15 PM
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"Happiness" is not a condition that can be measured by one's education or economic position or social status relative to others.

Nor is it safe to assume cross-culturally that increase in education and increase in economic position and increase in social status correlate with an increase in the ephemeral "happiness".


*went to edit, but decided I was happy, beyond potentially happy*

[edit on 26-4-2005 by MaskedAvatar]



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 06:16 PM
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WE HAVE OVER 50% DIVORCE! Why???


Imho thats contributed to 2 things these days.

1: people that get abused or are not compatible CAN get out now and do, in the past, marriages were agreed by the parents, matches were made or people married because they genuenly loved eachother, in alot of cases, they had to learn to live with eachother because the man had the pants on and the woman had to comply with whatever the man wanted, there was no other way.

2: if you look how society is these days. Boys go for the hottest girls, tramps and prom queens, the girls go for the jocks and "cool" guys. They don't have the slightest clue and don't really care at the time what it would actualy be like to live with that person.

People don't get hitched for love, they get married for status, money or because they became a parent at a young age because they were screwing some guy/girl they don't know the least bit about except they they were cool/hot/sleazy/sexy/rich/statused ...

People get married for all the wrong reasons and alot of people also get devorced for all the wrong reasons.

Alot of people that are genuine matches still get devorced just because both of them are to stubborn.

In some cases you also have both man and woman that goto work every day and neither of them have the energy left when they get home to do the household. This is one of the more common reasons for marital disputes these days.

Its not just about the marriage, but also about the lives people have to lead these days to get by. Alot of people HAVE to both goto work and even pull double jobs to be able to pay for their lifestyles.



posted on Apr, 26 2005 @ 06:28 PM
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All DToM said +


Originally posted by nathraq
One factor that I truly believe is causing so many divorces, is the need for both parents to work to support a family. This just isn't right. The kids are shoved into daycare, and the parents are constinently fighting over paying bills, who's turn is it to cook or clean,.etc. If the wife is the bread-winner of the family, then the husband should be at home doing most of the housework and taking care of the children, and vice versa. Everyone in a family has their roles to play.

Respect. Mutual respect. If your wife (or husband) is not your best friend then the relationship suffers.

This 'man in charge' routine works for some. I'm a guy and I like a partner. Besides, I many times simply don't know.
.



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 08:08 AM
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Today, in India, the women go to schools and colleges. There are about 150 programmers here from India and around half are women. They secretly mock how the US does things and say our own misery is our own fault. They CAN divorce and own their own place or go back to their parents in most places there. While it may be true that a divorced woman in India may have to deal with a lot in the smaller villages, it is not that way in their larger cities.

I agree with the laws that were placed a long time ago to help women do the same as men, but it has, in fact, went too far to the other side now. Yeah, there is a LOT of ideas on how a family should run and a few that really make sense. However, there is still a BIG difference in the families that stay together. I think the laws were tweaked just a bit too far to help make things a bit too out of balance which promotes divorce, thus making $$$ switch hands.



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 08:22 AM
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or....maybe....
we wrote the laws, but didn't take them to heart?

the main reason that it is predominately men who end up without custody and paying child support is because they are the ones with the earning potential....

and well, let's face it. the burden of homeland security against bugs and viruses doesn't really have to be so unevenly piled onto the wife, nor does the care of the children. there are alternatives. like....um....the husband devoting some time himself?

and well, just because there are laws against decrimination, doesn't mean there is no discrimination. I've ran into my share of it.
All this does effect the earning potential of women!!

I'll admit, things are changing, but there's still a ways to go, and until the earning power between the wife and husband is in most cases equal, you will have the women being given custody, it is merely economics at work.

you can write all the laws you want....if the people don't chose to adhere to the principle behind the laws, well, the result will be wanting.



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 09:00 AM
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I believe most of the divorces today can be blamed on women.

1. Women choose their parnter's "agressive ones are common pick"
2. Women have very unstable feeling's One minute they like someone and sometimes they don't.
3. Women have had to many relationship's, women treat relationship like it's a trend like a women thing to do. So they will date many guys, to see how they are.

Men on the other hand, don't like the idea, of attach, and detach.
If you use stick tape a few times it becomes weak and detaches. This like women in relationships. Like the common guy jumping from job to job, it becomes a cycle.



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by TheTruth123
Men on the other hand, don't like the idea, of attach, and detach.
If you use stick tape a few times it becomes weak and detaches. This like women in relationships. Like the common guy jumping from job to job, it becomes a cycle.

Ain't it the truth- just call me 'hop-along'





posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 01:45 PM
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"I believe most of the divorces today can be blamed on women.

1. Women choose their parnter's "agressive ones are common pick"
2. Women have very unstable feeling's One minute they like someone and sometimes they don't.
3. Women have had to many relationship's, women treat relationship like it's a trend like a women thing to do. So they will date many guys, to see how they are.

Men on the other hand, don't like the idea, of attach, and detach.
If you use stick tape a few times it becomes weak and detaches. This like women in relationships. Like the common guy jumping from job to job, it becomes a cycle."

---------------------------------


nice generalizations there...


funny, but ya know, I never see on the tv shows, or in real life men hanging out on the street corners because they know that sooner or later some crazy lady will offer them $100 bucks for a one hours fling!! only men, and well, although I don't agree with it, you got to admit, $100 an hour is good money, I can see why it would be tempting to some women.

So, you don't chose your partners also, and well, maybe you prefer the timid meek ones...

and this one here....
"2. Women have very unstable feeling's One minute they like someone and sometimes they don't."
boy that one is a laugh and a half...
one day the guy wants a family, is cooperating with us, sharing with us.....then before I realize it, he's sucked me dry, I don't have the money to get to work even, no, he can't help in the house, and no, he can't talk to a kid....
okay......ya, it's the women's fault....

ya know, I laid in bed and went hungry some days when I broke my ankle. no dishes were done, so no, there co uldn't be a dinner cooked, and all him and his three sons could do is argue over who should be doing the dishes. I finally gave up, hobbled out to the kitchen, and did a balancing act on one leg and got them done!!

PEOPLE CAN BE JERKS!
and sometimes.....PEOPLE CAN DO A JECKLE HYDE IMITATION ON YOU....real fast.
Don't expect women to live a way of life unless yous are willing to live in the same manner.
in other words, as long as prostitutes are on street corners making $100 a shot, don't whine to me because the perspective wives want to shop around before committing themshelves to a marriage with you.




[edit on 27-4-2005 by dawnstar]
hey I'll get it right....eventually

[edit on 27-4-2005 by dawnstar]



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
Don't expect women to live a way of life unless yous are willing to live in the same manner.
in other words, as long as prostitutes are on street corners making $100 a shot, don't whine to me because the perspective wives want to shop around before committing themshelves to a marriage with you.

You're not a tad angry are you


external image

My first wife would have felt like you sound (read). I had my own 'thang' and was rolling. Dishes- not me.

We learn, if we try. Don't even have to be smart, just try.

3rd wife now-


I might make a half-way decent husband this time around. I try.

(2nd wife- she was my punishment, the wife from hell)

external image



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 10:42 PM
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"Godservant"

You claim that equal rights for women are not working? What is your proposal? Which rights should be taken away? I am dying to know.


Originally posted by TheTruth123
Men on the other hand, don't like the idea, of attach, and detach.
If you use stick tape a few times it becomes weak and detaches. This like women in relationships. Like the common guy jumping from job to job, it becomes a cycle.


Hey TheTruth123, try not to make it sound so romantic next time! Why would any woman settle for something like that? Have you ever met a woman? As for this little pearl of wisdom here…


I believe most of the divorces today can be blamed on women.


No kidding! I could share some true stories as to WHY this may be the case, but I’d hate to turn this into a man- bashing party. Also, I am fully aware that women are not always innocent during marriage, and could very well be responsible for a number of divorces, but the truth is BOTH parties are usually at fault.







[edit on 4/27/2005 by Lecky]



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 06:28 AM
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"You're not a tad angry are you "

-----------------------------------------------

I'm not gonna waste my time and energy being angry. Just letting yas know, there's two sides to every story.

and well, basing it on my personal life story....what I am hearing in all this is that:

healthy relationships (and society in general) require people to make compromises with each other in order to live peacably in the world. And, well, although there are many things we are willing to compromise on, there are a few things that we will be like brick walls and never change. Men want to be the ones to decide just what he is willing to compromise, and what he isn't, although he is unwilling to give women that same freedom. So, he resorts back to ancient myths as a form a mental mind game to get what he wants. I'm the king of the house and I rule it!!! At another time in history, this may have been enough to win the argument, since hey, if the women did have a job, she made pennies to the man's dollar and definately not enough to house and feed herself, let alone her children, although, many women did manage to do just that.
The rules have changed, and now if the women finds that she can't live with the rules of the castle, well, she can go out and buy her own castle, forcing men into the situation where they have to compromise. They don't like that.

But, let's look at the thing in a different way....

what if God had decided to appoint a women to do the job that he had given Jesus.
when she was to be given away in marriage, she would have spoken up saying, I don't think God would want me to do this, and well, been laughed at and married off anyways...
her deciples would all have to have been children, since no man would listen to her and take her seriously, besides, she was probably legally banned from even learning anything from the torah, let alone teaching it.

and, when it came time to die on the cross, that would be a sacrifice that she wouldn't be free to make, would she. I mean, ya, she could maybe go to her husband, and ask permission to go out and meet the guards at the gate, I guess...but what if he denied her. or what if he commanded her to do it....in either case, it wouldn't have been a sacrifice would it?

ya, okay, this is why God picked a man for the job, and you don't see any relevance to the world today in what I said.

but, how can a women give to charity...when she technically owns nothing and all the money is her husbands?

or, what if he decides, he wants her home, taking care of him and the children, instead of at church? I am not a christian, mainly because I heard the people in the church saying crap like...."Well, if her husband doesn't want her going to church, well, maybe she shouldn't...." and well, on that particular day, I went through hell to get to church!!!
Many southern masters didn't want their slaves to learn any religous values either(outside of the ones they taught them of course). and well, they had the right to deny them their right to religious freedom also.

------------------------------------

so, all I can say is that unless you are willng to give a "master" that kind of power or control over you, I suggest you don't expect women to give it to you!! And, I'd be just about willing to bet that if you got your way, your children's children, male or female, will be required to live under control of masters requiring a heck of alot more!



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by dawnstar

so, all I can say is that unless you are willng to give a "master" that kind of power or control over you, I suggest you don't expect women to give it to you!! And, I'd be just about willing to bet that if you got your way, your children's children, male or female, will be required to live under control of masters requiring a heck of alot more!

You took a long, long time getting here. This is fantasic!


I'll give you a WATs . I don't know if I believe this or not, but this is superb!

I am a student of human nature and all I can say at the moment is WOW.

Subservience by process. I have always believed in the 'alacoholic/abuser' parent passing this down, but subservience, hmmm.

Even the cowed wife I have seen from mother to daughter, but this is more. This could be societal. If I'm making much of little then I gladly miss the boat as this is a tweak on some things I think about from time to time.


[edit on 28-4-2005 by JoeDoaks]



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 11:56 AM
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basically the idea that I was trying to express that if a generation or two grow up in homes where one parent is "different" from than another, and thus obligated to obey the other, well, that would be so easy to be tranferred over to other differences. It would be played out for them in their home on a daily basis. an acceptable way of life.




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