It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Mexican Professors says southwest to become a Mexican republic

page: 3
0
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 12:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by boogyman
Please explain to me what legislating English as the official language will accomplish! Seriously how will that make our lives better. Lets officially make the color of the sky blue while we're at it or officially add an ammendment saying that henceforth let it be known that water is wet. It will accomplish nothing its just a kneejerk response by insecure white people who get spooked when they hear people speaking spanish. There is no immigrant crisis people heaven forbid you have to live next to someone a different color then you.


It would mean that people coming here would have to start learning the language and assimilating again instead of staying in their separate communities. It would also mean that you had to understand our language to be able to vote - what a concept! It would mean cost savings to government because they would no longer have to research and publish all their documents in x number of different languages - which we also wouldn't have to wade through and throw away. All that's just for starters.

You can't possibly live or even have visited any city or state anywhere near the Mexican border, to have made this statement: There is no immigrant crisis people heaven forbid you have to live next to someone a different color then you.

Pull your head out of the sand (being generous here) and really take a look around the areas you are talking about before you start even 'hinting' that people here are being racist.

[edit on 4/27/2005 by centurion1211]




posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 02:08 PM
link   
centurion1211

We should jack up the English requirements a whole lot more in order to get Residency and/or become a citizen, maybe even a little requirement for a visa, but going to English only is going to cause A BLANK load more problems than it is solving.

just imagine this scenario:

No Foreign language documentation in court cases: just about anybody who can prove they dont have a high level of English competency would have a mistrial declared in their case ( unless you want to throw out the constitution and due process and all that....). Same case goes for medical treatment and all that just picture the malpractice suits because somebody didn't understand just what they were signing or going into.

as for the Illegals leeching off of the government aids like has been stated here I would say that the majority of illegals contribute to Social security that they would not see a dime of back. Only fully fledge criminals get around without ever paying taxes but most illegals still pay taxes. A lot of the kids of the illegals in public schools and such are legal citizens if they were born on US soil, you would be creating a huge Orphan problem if you start mass deportation of these parents. I wouldn't be against amending that law I think you should be here legally in order for your kids to have automatic citizenship.

The immigration problems that have been allowed by our government to get to where it is now is not going to be solve over night, no legislation on language or anything is going to do that. The first and most concrete step would be to sealed off the borders by military/technological means. Then start having illegals register themselves into guest worker programs. Gradually build up the English requirement in order to live in this country (resident/citizen) and this would force new immigrants to have to start assimilating more into “American” culture. I come from an immigrant family but when they came here they had to learn English there wasn’t a community like there is now that would allow you to live and flourish here without adapting to the country like there is now. It's practically a disadvantage to be overly assimulated among most foreign-born comunities. at least around here knowing 2 languages is more favorable than knowing just one (either english or whatever) regardless if your white (I mean american) or of immigrant decent.



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 03:52 PM
link   
Heres a fact first generation immigrants always live in seperate communities they always have and always will so this paranoia about them not assimilating and staying in their own communities is pointless. Thats the reason why cities have Chinatowns, Little Italies, and Little Odessas. Dont be surprised if an area near a focus of immigrant activities develops an immigrant community.

What Oblivions void said regarding language is 100% percent correct. Legislating language isnt facing the issue its just an empty feel good act that accomplishes nothing toward cultural solidarity. You can't stick your head in the sand and hope the rest of the world will learn to speak English just because you say they should.

Your right I never have been to the Mexican border but I do live in New York City and we've been dealing with the immigrant issue for alot longer then most of the rest of the country. I get suspicious when people talk about an immigration crisis for the simple fact that there has always been an "immigrant crisis". Look up the Know Nothing Party or the Nativist movement to see what I'm talking about.
Heres a start.

I am the third generation decendant of illegal immigrants and I challenge anyone to question my American identity or my fathers or my grandfathers. No one assimilates over night. I challenge you to move to Cambodia and "assimilate" Try learning to speak good Cambodian while holding down a lowpaying job that east up ten hours of your day. All the while dealing with a hostile "native" population that flips out because they hear you speaking English and they think your taking Cambodian jobs. Thats why I say this antiimmigrant bias is racist you people forget that once upon time your ancestors faced the exact same bias. This isnt motivated by practical societal issues it motivated by irrational fear of the outsider.



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 06:34 PM
link   
.
boogyman, yes you assimalated and that is the point of contention,

These people may never assimilate.

In the case of the southern border of the US the numbers are so huge (one milllion per year illegally in addition to legal immigration) that it is reaching critical mass. That is a metropolis of illegals moving into this country each and every year. We could end up with entire areas that culturally and linguistically alien to the generic US culture.

You could end up with generations of people who never eventually assimilate.
An entire sub-culture where the original culture becomes a quaint old thing.
The fact that they are illegal and can not easily integrate themselves in the broadest way to society makes the situation worse. Entire enclaves of people who can not call the police. They end up policing themselves which inevitably ends up being some kind of gang or mafia.

Most waves of immigration before this have always had an ocean in between the US and immigrants, so it was a manageble thing. The numbers of illegals were smaller and not so consequential. With this immigration from Mexico and Central America people are able to sneak on foot or vehicle across a long and not properly guarded border.

The US government has sold out the American people in favor of corporations and businesses that want to hire virtual slave labor. Workers that can never complain about healthcare benefits, low wages, bad/long working hours and deplorable conditions, for fear of deportation.

I realize it is complex, because some companies would simply move factories offshore to find cheap labor, but many jobs have to be done by residents of the US and those jobs now pay too little to support a family.

I don't hate these people for simply trying to get ahead, but they have chosen to commit a crime against this nation and the law should deal with them. Too bad Washington is just a home to criminal unpatriotic Senators, Congresspersons and President.

The analogy of skin keeps comming to mind, where would YOU be without your skin? Probably dead in very short order.

Without a skin [border] there is no United States of America.
.



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 07:32 PM
link   
we need to have 2 layers. an inorganic layer of wall to divert potential conflicts, and a flesh layer to man the wall.

I think its a scary coincidence that China has the listening station in mexico, perhaps have control of the panama canal, and are also infiltrating us through buying our debt, thru walmart, and thru recent canadian contacts thru its border.



posted on Apr, 27 2005 @ 08:09 PM
link   
Understood we should definitely maintain control of our borders thats not my point here.

What Im saying is why exactly do you believe they wont assimilate? What differntiates these immigrants from previous immigrants? Why wont these people eventually assimilate when everyone else has?

Also I dont believe the immigration paradigm has changed all that much. Its not like one shipload of immigrants arrived in America a year. There was a constant flow of ships off loading immigrants into America. Immigration then as now was motivated by profit not altruism. People were out to make a profit why send one shipload of immigrants to America when you can send fifty? Besides do you really think crossing a desert with minimal supplies on foot is easier then buying a boat ticket?

Also if there was ever a time when massive communities of foreign speaking immigrants would have established themselves in America changing the fabric of our lives it would have been in the 19th century. Think about it westward expansion was virtually unregulated back then immigrant communities did uproot themselves from the coasts and moved themselves in land to take advantage of the westward expansion movement and to escape the anti immigrant sentiments and violence that persecuted them in the big cities on the coasts. There was no one out west to make them assimilate yet they did any way. Why would it be any different now? Now when there's no escape from the influences of Americanization and they cant isolate themselves completely from America.

By the way immigrant communities dont offer an opportunity for isolation from america. Their children will still go to our schools interact with our children and learn our culture. The only way they wont assimilate is if we dont let them attend our schools and isolate them by enacting anti-immigrant legislation which by the way is exactly what the anti-immigrant movement wants to achieve. These people wont assimilate if we isolate them and they're here to stay.

You want to do something about it you make the politicians strengthen our border cohesion and bulk up the border patrol (keyword patrol, not govt. funded death squad) and relying on a civilian group with questionable motivations isnt the answer either. Granted the founders may not have any ties with white supremacist movements but there have been to much supportive chatter on White Power web sites for me to believe all people out there are a bunch of all american angels.

[edit on 27-4-2005 by boogyman]



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 02:40 AM
link   
this is moreso a problem of assimilation than imigration.

the US was built on immigrants, its the fact that these arent anglo

it is a problem in the sense that they wont adapt, this creates cultural tension and a weight on public works....but then again its not like they planned on staying anyways



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 03:17 AM
link   
I see california on that map, something tells me that the US would not let the worlds 5th largest economy slip away so easily there would be a civil war before that happened.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 07:32 AM
link   
I live in the Southwest and I am of hispanic background. For those that live in the Southwest why dont you quit hiring those illegal immagrants to cut your yard and clean your pool etc.....do you think that they are paying taxes.....their kids probably go to the same schools as your kids but your the one paying taxes so that their kids can enjoy the luxuraies that you pay taxes for. On any given day I can drive within two miles of my house and there are at least 50 hispanic (most likely illegal, no tax paying) guys peddaling work from anyone that is willing. They just camp out there and what for someone to pick them up and this is a predominately white/caucasian/anglo part of town. The local police station, which is 1/4 mile from this scene does nothing to curb this. Our politicians do nothing either because ultimately it is good for the econony, which they are not saying openly. These people really put money back into the local economy because they and their families have to shop and eat and buy cars etc...I dont agree with it but there are pros and cons to the situation.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 03:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by midnight
I live in the Southwest and I am of hispanic background. For those that live in the Southwest why dont you quit hiring those illegal immagrants to cut your yard and clean your pool etc.....


good point, i was thinking of that earlier this week when i was with some friends. I live in one of the richest towns in Rhode Island, all the way accross the country from the illegal immigration, but i can still see some possibly here. I was with my friend, who lives in teh richer part of the town, and there were three crews of lawn workers, all of hispanic descent. Not to add to the stereotypes but i would not expect more than 5 of the 15 or so of them to be legal immigrants.

This outrages me because all they are doing is running away from their problems and bringing them to other places, such as the south west, which has its benefiets previously mentioned in the taxes from their income, but running away from your problems is not the way to fix them. If 10 percent of the illegal immigrants who jumped the border, started to begin a revolution in Mexico that would solve, if successful, their problem for a long time instead of coming over here when we have our own problems to deal with before we start to decline any more than we have.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 03:32 PM
link   
I do believe that assimilation is a MAJOR factor here. Growing up in California, I was witness to the effects of twenty odd years of illegal immigration, and it did seem as if they refused to assimilate.

I read stoiries abotu europeans who CHANGED THEIR NAMES so that they would sound more "American", so that no one could equate them with their particular "old country". They wanted to be American and nothing else, and even changes their names to prove this.

Illegal immigration here in the south has done NO SUCH THING. They insist on carnicerias, botanicas, fruiterias, and other cultural influences, that they were trying to escape.

It really sucks because as some one who is not spanish, mexican, black or white , I can remember a time when California was truly a Mixed population, which now it is not. It sucks to be able to see both sides of the argument. And not to sound racist but when I visit Down Town L.A, I see little difference from T.J (except the price of beer of course
)

[edit on 28-4-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

[edit on 28-4-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 03:46 PM
link   


The bottom line is that even those of Mexican descent who live in those states aren't dumb enough to break away from the economy and strength of the United States.


That is pretty much the bottom line.
Well put.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 04:58 PM
link   
There is one, sure fire way to stop this.

Make the punishment for being in our country illegally death.

If you are here illegally, you die. It's simple, to the point, and makes the risk greater then the reward.



posted on Apr, 28 2005 @ 05:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by American Mad Man
There is one, sure fire way to stop this.

Make the punishment for being in our country illegally death.

If you are here illegally, you die. It's simple, to the point, and makes the risk greater then the reward.


Here here! Let's expand that to EVERYTHING though.

THEFT=DEATH
LYING=DEATH
CHEATING=DEATH
WORSHIPPING FALSE GODS=DEATH
DISSENT=DEATH
HOMO=DEATH

Sorry I know I am being antagonistic, but does crossing an imaginary border that did'nt even exist two hundred years ago seriously constitute a reason for death?

I honeslty want to believe that you do not believe that.
[editd for clarification]


[edit on 28-4-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 03:17 AM
link   
I think a death sentance is extreme. Deportation isnt.

And dont blame the Mexicans. Dont blame these Mexican extremists for wanting to take over the world.

Blame the United States government for not enforcing its own rules.

Noone can deny that there isnt 11 million illegal immigrants living in the US.

I dont think there is a day I cant go outside and meet at least one foreign national.

The US is so heavily infiltrated it is sickening. And it is our own fault.



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 03:43 AM
link   
Its wishful thinking on their part, but is funny nonetheless.

the biggest opposition they would face would be comming from the many Mexican Americans who actually live here, whether they were born and raised here, or came over and eventually became permanent residents. Most Mexican Americans would much rather be American citizens than Mexican citizens, and certainly would not want the country they live in now to become part of the country they left. Many Mexicans here are very proud to be American citizens or residents, and they like it here. Radical racist groups like Atzlan or La Raza really dont have much support amongst much of the hispanic community here, they mostly find support from misfits, left wing extremeists, and some criminals.

But they can dream all they like.



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 06:31 AM
link   
Does America have a Anti-Secession law that prevents states from suceeding from the Union?

Is the Lincoln law still in effect? (Sorry if i sound ignorant).



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 07:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by rapier28
Does America have a Anti-Secession law that prevents states from suceeding from the Union?

Is the Lincoln law still in effect? (Sorry if i sound ignorant).


No, I believe you can still seceed from the union, though I very well could be wrong.

I did a few google searches and did even more searches on some legal sites, and so far, have not come up with any specific or remote laws preventing secession from the union.

But I am faR FROM A LEGAL EXPERT, so please, dont take my word for it, and there are more people on ATS with more indepth knowldge of federal laws.

Thomas Crowne might know more, as he is the constitutional expert here. I know about the basics and some details of the constitution, and I dont recall anything specifically prohibiting secession. But again, theres people with a better more in depth and detailed knowldge than I.

I do know that a few states recently, such as California and Texas, have had serious discussion milling around about withdrawing from the Union and becoming seperate countries, and some blocs of states have discussed similar things, so it is not like the topic is never discussed in serious debate.



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 08:14 AM
link   
A very sober thread and I have contemplated to start one myself because I am so amazed

But I feared to be called racist.
I have moved back after many years in a Scandinavian EU country to spend my remaining 40-50 years at "home"

We have for years struggled with the same issues, many 3rd generation children are still oblivious to the language, they marry "natives" to be admitted. But this is only the case for immigrants from certain countries. Arabs(non Christians) and Somali.
What I am trying to say is that I am utterly astonished of the presence of illigal immigrants (Mexicans) openly working, the authority's are non present.

As a guest I would at the least be polite, the majority of this group I have encountered are rude, hostile, indifferent to their community, linguisticly ignorant even after many years here

My poor nieve nieghbor has married one, we have a good relation to each other, but he refuses to recognize my presence
I help her in many ways and enjoy her company but he and his gang are just arrogant. I have been told he hasn't told his family that she isn't rich he is embarresed of her, but what is she to do? he claims to take the baby if she leaves

I have done some inquiery and find this situation is frightingly normal.
Simular to the Arabien /European conlict.
This is going on in Dairy Land, far from the Mexican border
Assimilation, no no, these people have no intention to assimilate

I come from a proud line of immigrants, and the appeal America (my home by birth) has to me is the multitude, diversity the county's ability and willingness to embrace the world.
WrenLittle



posted on Apr, 29 2005 @ 08:32 AM
link   
Anyone else see this:

In the same radio interview, the governor also asked a Spanish-language Los Angeles television station, KRCA-TV Channel 62, to remove a billboard it erected with the words "Los Angeles, Mexico." The governor said such sentiments — implying that Los Angeles was now part of Mexico — would encourage illegal immigration.

It's a total outrage, but the media seems to be keeping it pretty hush, hush.





new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join