Jack the Ripper really Masonic Ritual Murders!?

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Originally posted by pignut
So the rituals are private, freemasons may reveal as much as they whish. Other constitutions no doubt have different guidelines for there members, but in England and Wales the position is as stated.

However you are right the matter is a trivial one, I really should not allow my self to be bated in this way.

Regardless, our rituals are NOBODY'S business but our own. I believe that THAT is why we should keep them private. For that simple reason. If someone reallly wants to know about Freemasonry's ritual, they can go ahead and look on the internet or whatever, but I sure as heck am not going to help them.

I understand your frustration ‘sebatwerk’ after all the reason for joining the freemasons is to learn things that you didn’t know before, hence the privacy. This in turn functions as a bonding mechanism for members, if the rituals were known before hand this process would be less effective. As ‘Trinityman’ has pointed out foreknowledge of the ritual would tend to reduce the enjoyment of the experience for the candidate, so detailed discussion is discouraged. I hold that these are the reasons for keeping the rituals ‘private’ not an oath forbidding you from revealing them. In this way the rituals may be discussed but only with discretion, bearing in mind the reasons for keeping them private.

Anyway, I did not mean to offend with any of my posts, I only wanted to express my view of freemasonry. It apperes that American masons are less open than UK masons.







[edit on 26-4-2005 by pignut]

Perhaps this may be of some interest to some here?
From Hell





seekerof

Originally posted by intrepid
Feeling like a nice Chianti. Just kidding.

Sounds like it's time for something "Illuministic."



A little something the Reptilian Overlords sent me.

Wino Monkeys, not just for drunken excess anymore...

Originally posted by pignut
[

The secrets of Freemasonry are concerned with its traditional modes of recognition. It is not a secret society, since all members are free to acknowledge their membership and will do so in response to enquiries for respectable reasons. Its constitutions and rules are available to the public. There is no secret about any of its aims and principles. Like many other societies, it regards some of its internal affairs as private matters for its members.

So the rituals are private, freemasons may reveal as much as they whish. Other constitutions no doubt have different guidelines for there members, but in England and Wales the position is as stated.

Where does that quote state that Freemasons may reveal as much about rituals as they wish? It doesn't even mention ritual. What's more, it states that masonry's constitutions and rules are public, but hints that all else is considered a private matter. I believe ritual is included.

Just as we were not allowed to learn the rituals before we took each degree, non-initiated should not be allowed to learn the rituals either. Whatever we were forbidden from knowing, we should keep secret from all others that are not 'brothers of this degree'.


[edit on 26-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

I'm am so tired of Jack the Ripper and the mystique that has arisen around this otherwise uninteresting character. He was nothing more than a nineteenth century serial killer who preyed on prostitutes. It's amazing how this figure has acquired a sort of cult status when he did nothing more than what serial killers have always done....kill. Jack is not an icon. He is only a run of the mill murderer who managed to elude the technologically challenged police of his day. Incidentally, serial killers are not a phenomenon of the twentieth century. Jack probably would have disappeared into the fog of history if it had not been for the sensationalization that he gained in the British papers of the day. As far as being a Mason, how do we know this? We don't even know who Jack was! And as far as the murderers that he committed being "ritualistic" well that is certainly going a bit far. Aside from preying on prostitutes, hardly virgins, and crudely mutilating their bodies, I hardly can see ho this could be called ritualistic. No, this was just another run of the mill nutbar whose only real distinction was that of being the first serial killer to have reached the yellow journalistic pages of the day.

Originally posted by pignut
I understand your frustration ‘sebatwerk’ after all the reason for joining the freemasons is to learn things that you didn’t know before, hence the privacy. This in turn functions as a bonding mechanism for members, if the rituals were known before hand this process would be less effective. As ‘Trinityman’ has pointed out foreknowledge of the ritual would tend to reduce the enjoyment of the experience for the candidate, so detailed discussion is discouraged. I hold that these are the reasons for keeping the rituals ‘private’ not an oath forbidding you from revealing them. In this way the rituals may be discussed but only with discretion, bearing in mind the reasons for keeping them private.

Anyway, I did not mean to offend with any of my posts, I only wanted to express my view of freemasonry. It apperes that American masons are less open than UK masons.

UK Masons must take a different oath than what I took over here or when you promise and swear something in the UK it may not have the same meaning. I dunno what it is but the differences are quite amazing.

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
I'm am so tired of Jack the Ripper and the mystique that has arisen around this otherwise uninteresting character. He was nothing more than a nineteenth century serial killer who preyed on prostitutes. It's amazing how this figure has acquired a sort of cult status when he did nothing more than what serial killers have always done....kill. Jack is not an icon. He is only a run of the mill murderer who managed to elude the technologically challenged police of his day. Incidentally, serial killers are not a phenomenon of the twentieth century. Jack probably would have disappeared into the fog of history if it had not been for the sensationalization that he gained in the British papers of the day. As far as being a Mason, how do we know this? We don't even know who Jack was! And as far as the murderers that he committed being "ritualistic" well that is certainly going a bit far. Aside from preying on prostitutes, hardly virgins, and crudely mutilating their bodies, I hardly can see ho this could be called ritualistic. No, this was just another run of the mill nutbar whose only real distinction was that of being the first serial killer to have reached the yellow journalistic pages of the day.

To get this thread back on track I agree with benevolent tyrant, it was some whacko with a little medical training that committed these terrible murders. I doubt it had little to do with any ritual of any kind. More than likely the person that commited the murders had some medical training.

Originally posted by mrfixit

UK Masons must take a different oath than what I took over here or when you promise and swear something in the UK it may not have the same meaning. I dunno what it is but the differences are quite amazing.

I am only going on what the UGLE says in the ‘All about Freemasonry’ section on its website. From what they have put on their website it appears that they don’t think that the rituals are secret but they don’t what people to pry into them too much, for the reasons that I have given in previous posts.

Check out the UGLE website if you don't beleve me.

www.grandlodge-england.org...


from what yoy say the UGLE is lying about what they consider to be a secret and their website is just a scam, foolishly I believed it. If they are lying about their rituals being secret what else are they lying about? I thought that Freemasonry was based on humanistic values and that Masons were men of some integrity. But this all came from UGLE propaganda which according to you I cannot trust.

Am I becoming an anti-mason? I will reevaluate my views on freemasonry and be a litlle more wary on taking masons at ther word in future.

Thanks for the insight.





[edit on 27-4-2005 by pignut]

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
I'm am so tired of Jack the Ripper and the mystique that has arisen around this otherwise uninteresting character. He was nothing more than a nineteenth century serial killer who preyed on prostitutes. It's amazing how this figure has acquired a sort of cult status when he did nothing more than what serial killers have always done....kill. Jack is not an icon. He is only a run of the mill murderer who managed to elude the technologically challenged police of his day. Incidentally, serial killers are not a phenomenon of the twentieth century. Jack probably would have disappeared into the fog of history if it had not been for the sensationalization that he gained in the British papers of the day. As far as being a Mason, how do we know this? We don't even know who Jack was! And as far as the murderers that he committed being "ritualistic" well that is certainly going a bit far. Aside from preying on prostitutes, hardly virgins, and crudely mutilating their bodies, I hardly can see ho this could be called ritualistic. No, this was just another run of the mill nutbar whose only real distinction was that of being the first serial killer to have reached the yellow journalistic pages of the day.

It many forms of mental illness have a ritualistic element that fits in with the rational of the sufferer. The sufferer may be driven to constantly wash their hands or to sit on a particular chair wearing a gorilla outfit. So far as serial killers are concerned the killings may also have such a ritualistic dimension.

pignut

Some of your questions regarding ritual have overflowed across two threads, and I have hopefully answered some of your questions over there.

Originally posted by mrfixit
UK Masons must take a different oath than what I took over here or when you promise and swear something in the UK it may not have the same meaning. I dunno what it is but the differences are quite amazing.

There are hundreds of different rituals around the world, all slightly different. English ritual (amongst others) differs in that the traditional penalties have been removed from the obligation and replaced with a more effective penalty 'void of all moral worth', and moved to a subsequent passage where they are explained in full.

This can really be described as 'window dressing' as the penalties were completely symbolic.

From the UGLE website
The much publicised 'traditional penalties' for failure to observe these undertakings were removed from the promises in 1986. They were always symbolic not literal and refer only to the pain any decent man should feel at the thought of violating his word.

Many English freemasons regard the removal of penalties as unnecessary tinkering.

Originally posted by pignut
I am only going on what the UGLE says in the ‘All about Freemasonry’ section on its website. From what they have put on their website it appears that they don’t think that the rituals are secret but they don’t what people to pry into them too much, for the reasons that I have given in previous posts.

Check out the UGLE website if you don't beleve me.

www.grandlodge-england.org...

UGLE make it quite clear that the ritual is private. It also states that the only 'secrets' in freemasonry are the modes of recognition. I think this is quite consistent with most regular GLs around the world.

from what yoy say the UGLE is lying about what they consider to be a secret and their website is just a scam, foolishly I believed it. If they are lying about their rituals being secret what else are they lying about? I thought that Freemasonry was based on humanistic values and that Masons were men of some integrity. But this all came from UGLE propaganda which according to you I cannot trust.

It must not be forgotten that freemasonry is not a globally-run organisation with cookie-cutter rules and regulations. For over 200 years freemasonry on both sides of the Atlantic has evolved separately, like the language we share. If an Brit tells an American that COLOR has a U in it, it would be quite unfair to accuse him of lying, as he is telling the exact truth from his perspective.

[edit on 27-4-2005 by Trinityman]

Originally posted by Trinityman
pignut

Some of your questions regarding ritual have overflowed across two threads, and I have hopefully answered some of your questions over there.

Yes i felt that i was posting off topic so i found another thread. I think now that I should have started a new one for this issue but it seems to be cleared up now thank you.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Take a breath, calm down, and step AWAY from the conspiracy sites. Let your mind clear. Whoever Jack the Ripper was...his crimes were not "Illuminati ritual."

I've viewed the list suspects for years. One thing is certain, it would be very hard to prove for certain, what exactly happened. But I have a feeling that Robert Donston Stephenson was Jack the Ripper. It just feels right to me, his appearance just before the crimes, his interest in them that was extreme enough to alert 4 of his friends to this possibility, and he left just after the last murder.


"After examining the position of the fifth and last victim, 25-year-old Marie Jeanette Kelly, Edwards realised that all the women were killed within a 500-yard radius and that, by joining the sites together, it was possible to create the Vesica Piscis, a fish-like symbol worshipped by the early Christians. By murdering his victims and leaving their bodies in that way, the killer intended a tribute to Satan.

Edwards said the organs removed by the Ripper - the heart, kidneys, genitalia and womb - were those routinely used in black magic rituals.

'Such practices were common on the west coast of Africa at the time and my suspect was known to travel to the west coast in search of occult knowledge and even went so far as to write on the subject,' Edwards said.

Stephenson, an occultist and military surgeon who lived near the site of the murders at the time they were committed, was arrested twice for the crimes but was released each time.

An exceptionally intelligent and educated man, Stephenson was obsessed with black magic and confessed to the murder of at least two people during his travels in Africa."


www.buzzle.com...

The Vesica Pisces is a Grail symbol and it's interesting that Robert Donston Stephenson changed his name to Roslyn like the chapel in Scotland associated with the Grail or the bloodline of Mary Magdalen.

The rumour on the web is that the real Ripper child was not the offspring of the Prince of Wales and Annie Crook or Mary Kelly but the son or daughter of Mary Kelly and Freemason Sir Arthur Sullivan.
Sullivan was notorious as a patron of prostitutes and went to France the same year Mary Kelly is reported to have gone. The theory is that she was a servant of the Carnarvons, friends of Sullivan, and they fired her when she became pregnant and he wouldn't marry her.
Who killer her and whether the Masons were involved is another question but there was certainly a conspiracy to cover up Mary Kelly's identity which, unlike the other victims, has never been determined in 120 years.

Rippercast, the Jack the Ripper podcast, is today going to try to debunk the Mary Jane Kelly/Sir Arthur Sullivan theory. They tried last week with the first of a two part Mary Kelly show that started on the 120th anniversary of her death but they failed to prove that the Mary Kelly who married a baker named Robert Wilson was still alive after the murder according to census records. Another Mary married to a baker named Robert Wilson was found. We'll see when today's show is available online. Stay tuned.
Same Ripper time. Same Ripper channel.

The most likely answer to the Jack the Ripper Mystery is this :- we are talking about a knife wielding psychopath with a hatred of women.

Originally posted by mystiqEdwards realised that all the women were killed within a 500-yard radius and that, by joining the sites together, it was possible to create the Vesica Piscis, a fish-like symbol worshipped by the early Christians. By murdering his victims and leaving their bodies in that way, the killer intended a tribute to Satan..

Or a tribute to the Holy Grail, the Mother Goddess, Mother Earth and Spirituality and Femininity, demonized as the Devil by Materialists and anti-Spiritualists.
Roslyn Donston makes a good suspect if not for his hospital stay in a hospital ward, now known not to allow patients to leave, unless of course he was a party to the crimes or a svengali. Most people who empower themselves by the occult tend to abandon their occult past and occultish ties when they get power but Roslyn was still making overtures to women involved in theosophy with Helena Blavatsky and writing occult material for Borderland magazine years after the murders stopped. I was able to prove his Borderland story of his meeting with the Witch of Cava was a direct plagiarism from The Last Days of Pompeii; Roslyn was still trying to make himself more powerful through the occult.
Roslyn was nevertheless attuned to the Holy Grail aspects of the Ripper case, locating himself right in the middle of the Vesica Pisces and having changed his name from Robert to Roslyn, forever linking him to a case involving a prostitute named Mary who may have had a child with a noted Freemason, Sir Arthur Sullivan.
Ripperologists avoid discussing this scenario and the only attempts at debunking the Mary Kelly/Arthur Sullivan child is on the hoaxmuseum forum under "Roslyn Hoax".